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Spiritual Reorientation 3: You are your body

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posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: Tryptych
 



Somehow I get the feeling that you feel like you're being left out of something and feel somehow inferior.. all the traditions and books are out there and nobody's hording anything. Just don't expect to have very meaningful argument with a person who's interested in this subject with that attitude.


You “get the feeling”, or in other words, project yourself on to what you do not know. Yes, it’s called conjecture.

I don’t expect a meaningful argument from one who cannot produce one.


Also, you STILL haven't explained who are "they" and how "they" (who believe in soul/spirit) despise the body?


Those who say we are not our body.




posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight




I know via direct experience.


I guess then that I do as well.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: Tryptych
 



Somehow I get the feeling that you feel like you're being left out of something and feel somehow inferior.. all the traditions and books are out there and nobody's hording anything. Just don't expect to have very meaningful argument with a person who's interested in this subject with that attitude.


You “get the feeling”, or in other words, project yourself on to what you do not know. Yes, it’s called conjecture.

I don’t expect a meaningful argument from one who cannot produce one.


Also, you STILL haven't explained who are "they" and how "they" (who believe in soul/spirit) despise the body?


Those who say we are not our body.



Who says that? Not I nor anyone here. Yes, we are our bodies, yet we are free to take spiritual journeys as well.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight
 





I particularly enjoy my body and so does my husband and vice versa, but there's also the spiritual aspect of enjoying the body, as well as treating it with respect and kindness because it houses a treasure.


From what I can understand, it seems that you relate the body to merely a container, rather than yourself. How so?


edit on 29-4-2014 by Aphorism because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: InTheLight
 





I particularly enjoy my body and so does my husband and vice versa, but there's also the spiritual aspect of enjoying the body, as well as treating it with respect and kindness because it houses a treasure.


From what I can understand, it seems that you relate the body to merely a container, rather than yourself. How so?



I guess because I know, through experiences, that I am more than what I am in this physical realm. Your questions are very difficult to answer because you have not experienced what I have, so, of course, my answers will always be insufficient.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight
 




I guess because I know, through experiences, that I am more than what I am in this physical realm. Your questions are very difficult to answer because you have not experienced what I have, so, of course, my answers will always be insufficient.


I suppose so.

If you can induce out of body experiences, why do you not get tested for the sake of the advancement of human knowledge?



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: InTheLight
 




I guess because I know, through experiences, that I am more than what I am in this physical realm. Your questions are very difficult to answer because you have not experienced what I have, so, of course, my answers will always be insufficient.


I suppose so.

If you can induce out of body experiences, why do you not get tested for the sake of the advancement of human knowledge?


How exactly would they even begin to test this phenomenon? Which spectrum of light do we travel along, or at all? Is it a quantum wave surfing thing?



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight




How exactly would they even begin to test this phenomenon? Which spectrum of light do we travel along, or at all? Is it a quantum wave surfing thing?


They would test your body of course, as they did with the experiment I posted earlier. The person who induced the OBE's in that experiment, didn't actually believe she left the body as you or Visitor do, but we work with what we have, and much information about the visual, vestibular, somatosensory systems were noticed.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: InTheLight




How exactly would they even begin to test this phenomenon? Which spectrum of light do we travel along, or at all? Is it a quantum wave surfing thing?


They would test your body of course, as they did with the experiment I posted earlier. The person who induced the OBE's in that experiment, didn't actually believe she left the body as you or Visitor do, but we work with what we have, and much information about the visual, vestibular, somatosensory systems were noticed.




No they would have to test the quantum wave vibrations around the body for any movement.

Then again, if the waves are observed, they then behave differently.
edit on 29-4-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight




Then again, if the waves are observed, they then behave differently.


To be precise, it is when they are measured that they behave differently. For instance, to measure tire pressure, one must release a little air pressure.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: InTheLight




Then again, if the waves are observed, they then behave differently.


To be precise, it is when they are measured that they behave differently. For instance, to measure tire pressure, one must release a little air pressure.


And what is measuring except physical interruption and observation.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: InTheLight

Why would they have to test for quantum wave vibrations?



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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(double)
edit on 29/4/2014 by Tryptych because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
Look. Another spiritual overlord, trying to horde spirituality for himself.


Leaves very little room for interpretation. Nobody's hording anything.

And saying that we're not our body doesn't mean someone despises his/her body. It's not that black and white. But I doubt think you'll ever understand that.
edit on 29/4/2014 by Tryptych because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: InTheLight

Why would they have to test for quantum wave vibrations?


Why wouldn't they try all available science to find an answer to a question?



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: Aphorism




They would test your body of course, as they did with the experiment I posted earlier. The person who induced the OBE's in that experiment, didn't actually believe she left the body as you or Visitor do, but we work with what we have, and much information about the visual, vestibular, somatosensory systems were noticed.


The bigger question is, (and you never answered me), what are you so afraid of? I know plenty of arm-chair skeptics who decided to see for themselves what this as-yet-indescribable OBE phenomena is all about. They decided not to wait for Scientists (who are still uncertain what ANYTHING is) and take the plunge.

If you don't want to experience an OBE, and instead you'd rather burden others with spoon feeding you, then my second question is: why should we? What would be the motivation? You want scientists and OBE'ers to waste their time proving something to you when you've just said it wasn't very important to you?

Heck no. Until you show you're serious about the phenomena, and give it a whirl, you shouldn't be told a darn thing. You're not shouldering any of the responsibility at all, and the task is relatively EASY to do......what gives?

Even if it's proven, and you somehow believed it, you STILL would only be working with belief and Belief means NOTHING. Which takes us back to the first question. Why don't you try? What are you afraid of? Do you not trust yourself with the experience?

You've asked us enough questions, now answer mine. Because I'm curious how a side liner like you thinks.

edit on 29-4-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: Visitor2012
 



You've asked us enough questions, now answer mine. Because I'm curious how a side liner like you thinks.


What am I so afraid of? I don’t wish to escape my body. It’s not a matter of fear but more a matter of taste. I don’t wish to abstract myself too much. I’ve travelled the world and have seen many things, many so-called shaman and gurus and witch-doctors and yogis. They all say the same sorts of things about spiritual travelling and other worlds and ghosts, and then sit down for long periods and close their eyes. You speak about sidelining, these good folk are experts at it, never travelling, never moving, always still. Only stagnancy comes from still water. If you're curious how a sideliner to life sounds, speak their words and doctrines. They sit, the world continues. I’m not one to sit for too long and play with my mind as they are. I prefer the world and movement and fresh air and life. I think I’ve already mentioned that I don’t take a romantic or fantastical view of things, and prefer a more down to earth approach. I don’t feel the need for ghosts and mystical experiences and do not see how they are of any benefit personally. Furthermore, if the OBEers I’ve talked to are any indication, it seems that this experience only furthers their self-proclaimed spiritual superiority, which seems to result in no more than name calling. I don't really respect that; I suspect it. Quite simply, I don’t wish to seek in that direction. You seek that way. I’ll seek this way. Perhaps it's better that way.

Yes please. If you don’t wish to spoon feed me your experience I understand. You’re absolutely right that I should attempt to experience it myself before I knock it. I believe the experience is real. No question; and my opinion should not bother you because of this. I just find it all so boring, and what results from it, a very dim outlook of humankind. I prefer to stay whole. Wherever I go, I bring the whole with me. I don’t wish to leave a piece of me behind. It’s simply a matter of taste.

I trust myself completely. I prefer to keep it all together, and I end up finding a better and more healthy spirit in it than I ever have playing with the ghost in the shell.

If you find a use for it, however, let me know.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
Those who claim spiritual monopoly over spiritual ideas and necessities assert that we are not our body. Ironically, every time they utter these claims they do so as a body. But whether for vain reasons they do not like themselves, or they simply long to perish, they nonetheless speak ill of the body, and hence, under the guise of mystical wisdom, speak ill about themselves and everyone around them.

This seems like quite the generalization. So let me get this straight, spiritual people, in your view, neither like themselves, nor their bodies, nor others. These are the hallmarks of a spiritual person. Is that right?


But we humor these good people, and when we address them, we pretend we do not see them. We look around for the source of the words, but a body is always in the way. This body is capable of speaking, but it sees itself as something like a machine, or worse, a prison—the paradox of an immaterial ghost trapped in a material jail. We dare not let them out however, for every vain bird loves its cage. He’ll remain hidden for now, chattering about how he is locked somewhere within, hidden, yet the cell door is wide open. We humour these good people. It is safer that way.

Way to wax-poetic...


We might suppose then that this ghost, being within the body but not of the body, is perhaps akin to a foreign object, almost like a parasite or a disease; yet unlike other foreign objects, they are something the body’s most prudent defence mechanisms refuses to acknowledge. We don’t even get a rash.

Why would we suppose such a thing?
That which resides within the body since conception would cease to be a foreign object, no?


that to be spiritual is to make oneself less than what he already is, something other than himself, a nothing.
I think it's quite the opposite, actually.

You are not only your body. That is too broad a definition of 'you'. You seem only concerned with the 'what' (object), and only perfectly content to disregard the 'who' (subject). We are not zombies.

Your fear is not your body. Your sorrow is not your body. Your happiness is not your body. Your thoughts are not your body. Your ideas are not your body. Yet all of these things are part of what constitute the 'you'. They are not material either, so where does that leave us?

How do you regularly identify yourself as you? By your personality, or by the length of your arms? By your experiences, or by the size of your brain?

Do people - your family, friends, colleagues - relate only to your body (object), or the subject within?

Why do you readily dismiss things like the mind and thoughts?



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: Visitor2012





The act of seeking doesn't negate the finding. It's the act of seeking within an illusory world in an illusory self which negates the finding.
However, to the contrary, there's no need to give up if one has already found what they're seeking. So thanks for the advice but no thanks.

On a side note I'm slightly curious though, is this the advice you give people you don't agree with? To give up the search to KNOW what they are and join your club of being ignorantly satisfied with not knowing? To be like you, and not even attempt to walk outside Plato's cave?



Thanks for the poetry praise. I realise when I write things like that I leave myself open, although sometimes the responses give an insight into character. Praise is rare though and it is appreciated.
Now that thats out of the way I can slag you off..!

There is nothing we can discuss about seeking and finding. You want to tell me what it is before I ask a question...I won't comment on your definition. You may have been better off asking me first...
And you are right I cannot give anyone advice on giving up. The comment was for you. I can see that you are clever, have some knowledge and perhaps have an idea of what you are talking about....but there is something lacking. Sometimes it is good to just stop and let it ferment. I know that you haven't found what you are seeking.

Can you see what you are doing here, when you say 'join your club of being ignorantly satisfied with not knowing?'? Do I have a club, have I displayed or advocated ignorace...do you think that I lack knowledge?

And then you mention Plato's cave...you are rather silly you know. A perhaps more productive move for you would be old Zarathustra's serpent lair.

And it's fine that people seek. I have always had a love affair with the esoteric but I have never been on a quest for answers or anything like that. I have known and still know spiritual seekers, free thinkers, sufis, and pagans. I love them all and yet I am unlike any of them. They always make me happy and I love the incongruity of their lives. The spiritual seekers are funny, they seem to think I have something...perhaps it's just really that...less is more.

In all this conversation you have only said one thing that I find interesting. For the most part it has been puffing and prancing...and capitalizing. It isn't just the tone, inflection or choice of words but more of the...assumptive and presumptive!
And going by this thread, it seems to be par-for-the-course.

And lastly...because I am honest.

Something did happen to me
That's why I can see

Thanks again for the poem stuff

Midicon.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
Once again:
sound 1 |sound|
noun
1 vibrations that travel through the air or another medium and can be heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear: light travels faster than sound.
• a thing that can be heard: she heard the sound of voices in the hall | don't make a sound.
• the area or distance within which something can be heard: we were always within sound of the train whistles.


No, Aphorism. Look again at the bolded part of your definition. Sound is mechanical energy, or a vibration, that moves through the air. It can only be "heard" once that vibration/energy hits the ear, or a microphone, or any other device that is capable of converting those vibrations into electrical signals that your brain turns into a sound, which is then experienced through your consciousness. If a device is not there to intercept the vibration, then a noise can not, and will not, ever be made. This is fundamental reality here.


The sense of touch (meaning the sensation) occurs in the brain NOT the sense organ.



originally posted by: Aphorism
That is simply untrue. The whole system is required to sense anything. Is a brain in a jar able to touch? Not likely. The sense organs are required to do anything you are trying to say the brain is solely responsible for. It doesn't accomplish anything but to confuse intelligibility to separate the two.

No, again. All sensations ultimately occur in the brain. That's where the electrical impulses generated by the sensory equipment are converted into a perceivable sense. So the vision of "reality" occurs inside your brain. As does the smell, the taste, the touch etc...they are all created in the brain. This is fundamental science, so not too sure what you are trying to say. It seems you may be the one confusing any intelligibility here.

www.brainfacts.org...


Our senses connect us to the world. Through complex systems that begin with cells that respond to physical stimuli and send signals through a maze of brain circuits, we can know—both consciously and otherwise—what goes on around us and within our bodies.

It’s a dynamic process. The brain is not simply a receiving station for sensory signals, and what we see, hear, and feel are constantly shaped by emotions, memories, moods, and beliefs. Our sense of the world is a creation of the brain, and the same physical sensation may be experienced quite differently at different times of life, and even from day to day.


www.brainfacts.org...

In other words it's a completely subjective experience. But I know you don't like that idea.
edit on 30-4-2014 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)




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