Spiritual Reorientation 3: You are your body

a reply to: Visitor2012

You are correct. OBE's are not my expertise. I've never induced an out of body experience, and I cannot tell you what you're experiencing. I don't find it a subject worth exploring myself and I don't see the point in it, and until a person without a body can change anything besides his own perception it doesn't make a difference anyways. People do that all the time in many shapes and forms. It also doesn't make a difference if your ghost is floating ten feet away or in another dimension, the body still sits there motionless, interested only in itself while you float around like a kite (an assumption on my part).

What benefits do you get from OBE's?

What do OBE's have to do with spirituality?

a reply to: Aphorism

What benefits do you get from OBE's?

In two words, Sight and Liberation.
The relinquishing of all belief systems and liberation from the limited perception of Body/Mind. A profound clarity of what isn't. The possibility of a realization of the true self which lies behind the Maya or illusion of the phenomenal World. A possibility of a DIRECT realization of the Atman and it's inseparable relationship with the Brahman (The God Head) and the opening of your eyes for the very FIRST time.

"Ātman is a Sanskrit word that means 'inner-self' or 'soul'. In Hindu philosophy, especially in the Vedanta school of Hinduism, Ātman is the first principle,[1] the true self of an individual beyond identification with phenomena, the essence of an individual. In order to attain salvation (liberation), a human being must acquire self-knowledge (atma jnana), which is to realize that one's true self (Ātman) is identical with the transcendent self Brahman:"

What do OBE's have to do with spirituality?

Because only in an OBE, do you get to DIRECTLY experience the etheric self, the spirit (Atman) and the reality that underlies everything in the physical / phenomenal World (Maya). Which is the self that is beyond the limited perception of body/mind.

It replaces superficial spirituality (that which is supported by beliefs, ideologies, moralities, ethics and assumptions) with real spirituality based on direct experience with Reality. The main benefit is that you get to see ,for the very first time, what you are, which is something FAR more expansive than a body.

Which is why I'm a strong advocate of OBE's, because without one, there is no possible way to know ANYTHING about yourself or reality. Without the clarity which can come from an OBE, the mind and ALL the thoughts, ideas and philosophies it generates is 100% based on Maya (the illusion or appearance of the phenomenal world).

Without this profound experience of the True self, EVERYTHING that comes out one's mouth comes from Maya. In other words, it's the beginning of TRUE spirituality, clarity and understanding.

But if you say that's not very important to you, I don't know what else to say. But please don't discourage others from trying it. And if you come across people who have experienced OBE's and who are trying to come to terms with it (like perhaps the ATS member IntheLight) , don't try to destroy their progress with your unfounded, opinion of it until you try for yourself. That's all I was trying to say.

There is only one Body, and his name is Jesse Ventura .....jk

OBE's are relatively easy to do because it only requires the belief of having done it. This is no way makes me believe anyone actually has. It is purely subjective and pointless to argue about

There are four types of people on the planet.

1.Those who are seeking

2. Those who have found

3. Those who gave up looking

4. And those who don't give a crap one way or the other.



So if you're not a seeker, which one of these are you?

So now we have a quaternary of type.
The human race all neatly diced.
I like that...
But I am not seeking, nor have I found
And cannot give up when I never set out
And though the path of indifference
Seems valid to me...this life right here
Is all that I need

And come to think of it, giving up may be just what you need to do.
If the act of seeking negates the finding.

originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
There is only one Body, and his name is Jesse Ventura .....jk

OBE's are relatively easy to do because it only requires the belief of having done it. This is no way makes me believe anyone actually has. It is purely subjective and pointless to argue about

I believe there exists a scientific explanation as to the existence of a separation of body and spirit, we just haven't found it, yet.

"A conscious self is physical, and yet not necessarily some kind of automated machine. Like my former student, such selves are deeply affected and implicated in the material world, identical to it, yet paradoxically outside it."

freq.uenci.es...

a reply to: Aphorism

Hey Aphorism, why should anyone bother talking to a weasel who breaks promises and refuses to learn about the things he talks smack about?

a reply to: midicon


a reply to: midicon

originally posted by: midicon


So now we have a quaternary of type.
The human race all neatly diced.
I like that...
But I am not seeking, nor have I found
And cannot give up when I never set out
And though the path of indifference
Seems valid to me...this life right here
Is all that I need

Awesome poem
Ok let me add a fifth type of person:
5. Those who 've never bothered to take a step.

And cannot give up when I never set out...

I'm open to a sixth, but I think I covered all of them.

And come to think of it, giving up may be just what you need to do.
If the act of seeking negates the finding.

The act of seeking doesn't negate the finding. It's the act of seeking within an illusory world in an illusory self which negates the finding.
However, to the contrary, there's no need to give up if one has already found what they're seeking. So thanks for the advice but no thanks.

On a side note I'm slightly curious though, is this the advice you give people you don't agree with? To give up the search to KNOW what they are and join your club of being ignorantly satisfied with not knowing? To be like you, and not even attempt to walk outside Plato's cave?

a reply to: BlueMule

ey Aphorism, why should anyone bother talking to a weasel who breaks promises and refuses to learn about the things he talks smack about?

I suppose its so you can call them names? How spiritual of you.

a reply to: Visitor2012

I find it interesting that an OBE is the relinquishing of belief systems, and then you go on to quote a belief system. That might be something that is questionable.

Do you subscribe to the caste systems put forth by these belief systems as well?

But if you say that's not very important to you, I don't know what else to say. But please don't discourage others from trying it. And if you come across people who have experienced OBE's and who are trying to come to terms with it (like perhaps the ATS member IntheLight) , don't try to destroy their progress with your unfounded, opinion of it until you try for yourself. That's all I was trying to say.

I would never discourage anyone from trying it.

originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
There is only one Body, and his name is Jesse Ventura .....jk

OBE's are relatively easy to do because it only requires the belief of having done it. This is no way makes me believe anyone actually has. It is purely subjective and pointless to argue about

Let me ask you, would you say that 'walking outside your house is relatively easy to do because it only requires the belief of having done it?" No you wouldn't.

Do us all a favor, if you're going to speak about OBE's and you've never had one, may I suggest you say so in the beginning. That way other people, who have the courage and desire to learn more about it and experience it, can sift through posts that matter and opinions that don't.

a reply to: Aphorism

I find it interesting that an OBE is the relinquishing of belief systems, and then you go on to quote a belief system. That might be something that is questionable.

Excellent catch. Yes, Hinduism is a belief system. It just so happens to be one of the few systems that even REMOTELY comes close to describing what an OBE or NDE can REVEAL.

You asked me to describe the significance of an OBE, out of all the barely-sufficient words that can be used to communicate what is FOUND through an OBE, 'Atman' and 'Brahman' is the closest I could find to relate the experience to you. And even in that description, it includes the words "....which cannot be exactly defined"

In other words, what I found with OBE's more closely resembles the descriptions of 'atman' 'Brahman' and 'Maya' than any other group of words I can think of. Since words is all I have to work with. That's a whole lot different than claiming the belief system ITSELF as 'proof' of reality, which isn't what I did.

If you want, I can come up with different words to try to describe what is found, but they'll roughly be the same kind of words I've been using whenever I talk about the subject.

a reply to: Visitor2012

If you want, I can come up with different words to try to describe what is found, but they'll roughly be the same kind of words I've been using whenever I talk about the subject.

I would actually enjoy that, if you find time. Let's do it without the belief systems.

a reply to: InTheLight

I believe there exists a scientific explanation as to the existence of a separation of body and spirit, we just haven't found it, yet.

"A conscious self is physical, and yet not necessarily some kind of automated machine. Like my former student, such selves are deeply affected and implicated in the material world, identical to it, yet paradoxically outside it."

This solidifies what I said. This statement can be paraphrased as, "You believe in unproven Paradoxes"
Basically you believe it true so to you its real despite the contradiction and lack of evidence.

a reply to: Visitor2012

I found the best way to learn about something is to read opposing views arguing the subject. I didn't realize only agreeable posts matter.

originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
a reply to: Visitor2012

I found the best way to learn about something is to read opposing views arguing the subject. I didn't realize only agreeable posts matter.

I think the best way to learn something is through direct experience with the thing you're trying to learn about.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: Visitor2012

 

I would actually enjoy that, if you find time. Let's do it without the belief systems.

Your wish is my command.

A revised description below (with references to belief systems removed).

What benefits do you get from OBE's?

In two words, Sight and Liberation.
The relinquishing of all belief systems and liberation from the limited perception of Body/Mind. A profound clarity of what isn't. The possibility of a realization of the true self which lies behind the illusion of the phenomenal/physical World. A possibility of a DIRECT realization of the self and it's inseparable relationship with everything else.

What do OBE's have to do with spirituality?

Because with an OBE, you get to DIRECTLY experience the etheric self, the spirit, the reality that underlies everything in the physical / phenomenal World. Which is the self that is beyond the limited perception of body/mind.

It replaces superficial spirituality (that which is supported by beliefs, ideologies, moralities) with spirituality based on direct experience with Reality. The main benefit is that you get to see ,for the very first time, what you are, which is something FAR more expansive than a body.


In my own words...

originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
a reply to: InTheLight

I believe there exists a scientific explanation as to the existence of a separation of body and spirit, we just haven't found it, yet.

"A conscious self is physical, and yet not necessarily some kind of automated machine. Like my former student, such selves are deeply affected and implicated in the material world, identical to it, yet paradoxically outside it."

This solidifies what I said. This statement can be paraphrased as, "You believe in unproven Paradoxes"
Basically you believe it true so to you its real despite the contradiction and lack of evidence.

No, I believe it because it is a reality to me. Perhaps in the future, science may be able to venture deeper into the quantum realm to, hopefully, explain this and all the other mysterious phenomenon for which we have no answers.

ca.answers.yahoo.com... (Read some of the comments, they touch on the mystery of reality).

a reply to: Visitor2012

I guess I better start experimenting with drugs then, so that I can learn and be able to discuss them. I should also attempt death I suppose.

Also your walking outside example doesn't apply. It can be seen, then you can imagine doing it before having actually done it. Im sure a paraplegic imagines how walking must be like all the time. OBE's cannot, it must only be believed to have been experienced. Most descriptions of the experience are similar because people read what others have experienced, directly influencing them.

a reply to: InTheLight

I know thats what I said, "It is reality to YOU".

Perhaps in the future there might be evidence helps little today.

originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
a reply to: InTheLight

I know thats what I said, "It is reality to YOU".

Perhaps in the future there might be evidence helps little today.

Well, I have evidence via my experience (my reality), the fact that you choose to dismiss my evidence is your right. However, it doesn't make you right.

www.simpletoremember.com...