It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

God is the true DEVIL. Lucifer, not so much...

page: 7
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in


posted on Apr, 26 2014 @ 07:22 PM
You are a slave to this world. GOD can and will continue to kill who he wants. I agree that it seems wrong from our perspective. Instead of complaining about how bad it is why not think of a better system. You never know who is listening. Don't just take the short answer by saying peace because we all have to eat something. In other words shape your future.

As i said before death is our escape from this place and our spirits don't want to be here. When the harvest is ripe is when mass genocide happens. If GOD was to just put a physical door out of here everyone would just leave and learn nothing and not fulfill their role here.

posted on Apr, 26 2014 @ 08:43 PM
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Text Duh Duh and Duh some more. I Just have a specific distaste for arrogant, delusional Christians in specific. If that helps clear things up for you.

I need not comment on your lack of understanding. Your response does show that you are, as suspected, Christian bashing.

Text so boils are as bad as murdering children and women. I fear for your state of mind.

I see that you did not bother to read the very first chapter of Job. Job had seven sons who were also killed. That along with his own affliction was due to Satan buffeting him. With that said, there is nothing in the OT commands of God that even infers that killing women and children are any worse that killing men. You seem to read a lot into your own understanding that is not scriptural. God declares that murder of any human is murder.

Text So murder is okay bc we are all going to die anyway? Oh well I guess we should give murderers a free pass based on your ideals stated here.

No murder is not ok. In other words without death, evil would eventually reach a point that would overwhelm the world. God does approve of killing a person who commits murder but killing that murderer does not make the executioner a murderer. Killing can be justified in some cases. Wars can also be justified in some cases. God reserves the right to kill and make alive. To your mind that is murder but to God it has already been declared. After the whole show is over everyone dies in this universe and it makes no difference then how long a person lives. I would suggest that you take this matter up with God because I have no other resolution to your problem. In fact the day will come that you will take this matter up with God.

Text To believe yourself righteous for your beliefs is arrogant. The problem is "righteous" folk loving that little title and feeling they are above those "unrighteous" heathens. You have all these little opinions but from an objective standpoint they are simply delusional. You need to save yourself from this mental prison.

I have never declared myself righteous and I do not know if I am or am not righteous. As I die I will also stand in judgment and it could be that I will be unrighteous and you may be righteous. We will just have to wait and see.

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 12:53 AM

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Why is it that god (christian god of the old testament) commits such evils while lucifer/satan does nothing but "tempt"? lets see a few examples of the horrible things god does and see if anyone can find something the devil did that is even on par. Isaiah 13:15-18: Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children

wow! pretty sick and twisted for a divine being!!! - See more at:

I'm sorry to say this but judging from your post, I think you have no idea of what you're talking about. Because if you did you should have known who is about to be destroyed here - The Babylonians!

And may I ask if you know who the Babylonians are and how they treat their prisoners and all of the nations they conquered?

If you only knew who they are. If you only knew...

So its okay to murder the children due to the fact that they were Babylonians? Would it be okay for us to murder all the Russian children because they are Russian?

You have some serious issues dude

No my friend, I'm not saying that all, heck it even pains me to hurt a fly but what I'm merely saying is the OP doesn't know what's he/she is talking about. In fact as pointed out by many already, the OP took the text out of context and ran with it to further his/her incorrect understanding.

For example, let's put this way. If you have the power to read the minds and hearts of people and can the see the future, would you put a stop to what Hitler or Pol Pot or other tyrants have done? I'm sure you would.

Now what if you knew that their (future) victims will be your children, your own family and those whom you love and million innocent lives, what would you do, ? Would you let it happen or do all you can to stop it? I'm sure you will.

But what if you did put a stop to it (before it happened), how would you react when people condemn you for it?

Yet God with all his knowledge and mercy, sent prophets to warn the wicked to cease and decease from their wickedness. But instead of listening, wicked men went from bad to worse. They ignored God's warning and admonition. So instead of letting the badness go further, time ran out. There was no other choice but to put a stop to it for good. Yet, even before the destruction came, God still looked at the INDIVIDUAL'S heart to determine if it merits salvation. If the person is deemed righteous then that person is saved.

This is born by the fact that there were eight righteous people that was saved in Noah's Flood. And that Noah and his family served as a "faithful witness" to those of their contemporaries.

There were survivors when Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for their wickedness.

That there were survivors when Nineveh fell.

That there were survivors when Egypt went to battle against God.

That there were survivors when Jerusalem was put into captivity.

But the fact that humans are unable to see the hearts and minds of man and can't see the future of individuals (from birth to death) and that of mankind, it's really short sighted for man to imposed his own knowledge and his own righteousness against of the Creator of the heavens and earth.

As the scriptures say:

""So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong. He repays everyone for what they have done; he brings on them what their conduct deserves. It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice. Who appointed him over the earth? Who put him in charge of the whole world? If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust." (Job 34:10-15 NIV)


"Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father: but the very hairs of your head are all numbered." (Mat 10:29-30 ASV)

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God." (Jhn 3:16-21 ASV)

So to say that I have "some serious issues" is total ignorance on your part and uncalled for.

edit on 27-4-2014 by edmc^2 because: added more scriptures

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 10:25 AM
new age not so new, bro...

A Trip into the Supernatural - Roger Morneau FULL MOVIE 1

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 11:14 AM
a reply to: Seede

in fact the God of Abraham's seed is the God of the Hebrews as well as the God of the Muslims as well as most Christians. You do realize that not all who claim Christianity have the same God?
How many gods do you think there are exactly?
The god of the Abraham story brought him over across the border to be in His domain.
Same thing with Moses, where his god brought the people across the Red Sea to be in His domain.
This god lived on the top of a mountain and ruled whatever was within sight, similar to the gospel "devil" who tempted Jesus with his own dominion.

Hopefully the Christian God is not subject to such restrictions so that everyone can be in His kingdom.

. . . till people learn to love all of creation His permissive will prevails.
That just means that God can't force someone to be righteous.
People as beings in this universe have a natural independence that even God Himself cannot violate.
You make it sound as if it was a choice God made.

God created evil but not in malice. Evil had to be shown to His creation in order for His creation to have knowledge.
You are obviously a Luciferian rather than a Christian, since you speak for the serpent.
edit on 27-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 03:21 PM
I really believe that the bible was speaking of the nephilim in this context. All of God's creation was shown mercy and forgiveness throughout the old and new testament. The only beings not shown mercy and forgiveness were Satan, the Fallen Angels, and the Nephilim (hybrids).

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 04:16 PM

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Why is it that god (christian god of the old testament) commits such evils

There is a common misconception that god commits evils, when in fact there is not one instance in the entire OT where god actually does so.

Sure, his rules are sometimes hard to follow and they lead to evil, but the evil is never actually commited by god directly. It is always the humans who are the eventual instigators of their own downfall!

So, just to prove it to ya: find me any instance in the OT where God directly commits any act of evil. You cant!
IMO this is probably the closest to being right. God tests everyone, at all times. If you take the book of Job, as an a example, you have to ask the question, was God testing Job? or was God testing Satan? Take Job 2:6 after Satan puts forth a proposition for testing Job, God says "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life." God has faith in Job, but not in Satan, God limits Satan's hand with a direct command because God cannot trust Satan. God is not testing Job, God is testing Satan.

That is a huge point, and why this thread is very interesting. Because given a monotheistic God, God is both good and evil. If one believes that, then one can do good works or they can do works of evil and believe that God accepts them. This is were the new world order, Luciferians, and cabalists have gone terribly wrong. They have been deceived. They believe that doing evil is acceptable. They believe that killing/droning children, starting wars, killing, maiming, starving, pedophilia, causing pestilence, judging people are all God's work because they read it in the OT. Its prideful and arrogant for a person to assume that they know the will of God and that they can substitute their judgment for His. This was Satan's downfall, he was cast down to earth with his angels and he is still dragging others down with him.

It was Jesus who said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and to "turn the other cheek." So remember, things will happen, life is always changing, and no matter what you do or how you prepare yourself, you cannot avoid some things, even death is necessary, so whatever happens, happens. It is always your choice whether or not to do evil things, just like Satan, God did not command Satan to harm Job, he put Job in Satan's hands and Satan could have stop inflicting harm onto Job. You always have a choice. Satan made his choice, and you can make yours.

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 04:23 PM
We are all devils.
Look at the true depth of the word "Saved" with concerns to spirituality and religion.
Consider the potential "Lie" that has mislead the world and how deeply it is rooted within civilization.
Begin to understand the moral point of Yashaya/Yeshua/Joshua/Jesus.

We should hope that if our God is Love that he would love us enough to reach out to us.
To some (Those who see and understand morality, integrity and respect and love of others..i.e. empathy) This comes in any potential form. Not "Physical" and not "Identical" to everyone.
To create an image for whatever created us is idolatry. Our minds simply can never fathom it.
They understand "God" even if they don't "believe" in "him". They believe in something GREATER (in one way or another) and they believe in themselves. Knowing what they are capable of.

What we seem to be experiencing is the nature of the universe (Good v Evil-Light v Dark) At a microscopically quantum level.
The books passed down are perhaps meant to show us what we can (good and bad) as a civilization.
Walking too far to the left or too far to the right can cause all sorts of havoc.
Walking right down the middle is the best plan of attack but also the hardest because of the obstacles (sin) in your path.
Your mind (that guiding voice inside) is YOUR Radio Link with whatever IT is. But what YOU do.. is up to YOU.
People (especially religions ones) seem to have taken the mantra: Living each day as if it were your life and flipped it Satanically or Self Righteously.

We must remember what we know as children.
We must remember that we have more important things to worry about than what this material world brings us.
We are flying through space off in the distant corner of a galaxy that lies amidst hundreds of billions more.

The true Devil is in the ones who spill the word improperly.

You can almost rest assured that Lucifer is as vital to our evolutionary and spiritual development as God.
These are spirits after all and we have gone through.. or are going through each of them. Hoping that one day we retain the spirit of salvation.

In a sense this voice of God is condemning them of their heinous atrocities that have brought about their destruction. It is being written to make it seem as he is the one bringing it upon them. He is and he isn't. Think karma..reap what you sew..
Consider our energies as humans.
The energy contained within the universe.
The warnings given in the OT YEARS before any destruction occurred.
We bring our own destruction by not looking where we are walking.
We believe that we are destined to rule or that "God" selects people to rule.
The people CAN BRING God/Heaven to Earth. But they have chosen to remain with Lucifer.(Hades/Sheol)
Will we ever be freed? Because of the lie early on and the manipulation of the word. There are so many lost sheep.
Last bit of my drool.
Since we are "fallen" supposedly and Lucifer's deceit is everywhere. We can't remember where we came from. How we got here.
Rough draft:
We've literally may have been lied to since the first story was ever spoken.
Societal Structure

Have we really changed anything since the beginning of time? Or have we just dressed it up with worship to ourselves? Technologies make us dependent. Stupid. (not everyone)

edit on 27-4-2014 by WhoWhatWhenWhere2420 because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 05:22 PM
a reply to: dieseldyk

God tests everyone, at all times. If you take the book of Job, as an a example, you have to ask the question, was God testing Job? or was God testing Satan?
Job is not actual history but is a parable about Israel, using the shortened version of Jacob, who was the original "Israel", to describe the spiritual goings-on behind the scenes of the destruction of Israel and Judea by the Assyrians and the Babylonians.

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 05:30 PM
a reply to: WhoWhatWhenWhere2420

What we seem to be experiencing is the nature of the universe (Good v Evil-Light v Dark) At a microscopically quantum level.
I think that the universe is neutral but seems evil to us as individuals who live and die, unnoticed and uncared about in the bigger scheme of its mechanical progress in building a bigger thing, whatever it is but we can't see because of the limitation of visualizing by way of photons that would take forever to take it all in.

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 06:45 PM
Very entertaining post. So many paradoxes in Christian religion hahaha. It's amusing. I'm not even that witty or fast thinking and I realized way back in high school that religion in general is a farce. I wonder what an IQ study of creationists vs non-creationists would be like. It amazes me that seemingly intelligent people even take it seriously. I don't even really care if I hurt people's feelings anymore either. They need it.

I'm not saying there isn't a consciousness that extends outside of this physical universe. A programmer, a creative force, divine consciousness, whatever you want to call it. I feel atheists are as much in the dark (no pun intended) about what is before and after this experience as religious fanatics. My convictions are that this whole experience is designed to only be understood through personal experience and not through following others opinions. Reality is subjective in nature. The laws of physics only provide the illusion that there is any kind of subjectivity here. And then again, the laws of physics itself is literally a program. The basketball you hold never touches your hand. Two forces are programmed to repel each other. How much more simple can it get to understand this is all just a simulation of experience and consciousness is the processor and programmer?

Anywho, once humans do a little more evolving they'll grow out of both paradigms. We'll experience and KNOW rather than following and believing.

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 07:53 PM
a reply to: spacemanjupiter

It amazes me that seemingly intelligent people even take it seriously. . . .
. . . .
A programmer, a creative force, divine consciousness, whatever you want to call it.
Aren't you "taking it seriously" just by accepting those possibilities?
If a programmer somehow "programmed" a universe, didn't he just create it?

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 09:01 PM
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Every civilization from every continent has a story of a great flood that took place roughly in the same time. Explain this coincidence please?

posted on Apr, 27 2014 @ 10:27 PM
a reply to: jmdewey60

I would definitely agree to that. It is based off of our perceptions and there is likely never a way or a path in which we can understand all of it in our current state.

Star for you sir. touche.

posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 01:42 AM
theyknowwhoyouare I am not sure why you direct such resentment towards Christians and God. Perhaps you are in some spiritual turmoil more so than you are willing to admit?

You state you where born and raised Christian and was a believer up until you were in your 20's. So what happened in your life to change your views in your 20's and to turn your back on God? and to hate Him ?

posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 04:47 AM
One of my favourite quotes from Jim Jefferies:

The bible, that’s god book, as far as I know the devil hasn't brought out a book yet. We haven’t heard his side of the argument. God’s just writing s**t about him, and the devil’s being the bigger man and saying, "I’m not even going to comment, talking # about me like that."
edit on 28-4-2014 by TotalAddict because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 05:48 AM
The god of the OT is the tribal/cultural deity of the Jews. That means that such a deity is supposed to protect its on people against their enemies, just like in any other culture. The main difference with other cultures was that they had huge pantheons while Jews had a single, all powerful deity.

The god of the NT is the universal deity that anyone can enter in communion with by following their heart. This is the true "divine nature" that is encoded in all religions as part of their esoteric/mystical teachings VS the exoteric/mundane stories.

That's why the other Jews weren't big fan of Jesus because his god was more universal than the god of the Jews.

It's really not hard to understand if you put a bit of effort to put these texts back in context.

Not everything in the OT is bad though, despite being a deity favoring it's own people (so basically a racist deity), the god of the Jews is still the basis of the god that Jesus tried to teach about later.

So the basic idea wasn't bad, it's just that the Jews limited to their own people.

Lucifer on the other hand is far from a deity. It's just usually a representation of pride and hybris, and I don't think these are good values (they were capital sin in Greece way before the Bible).

It's not Yahweh VS Lucifer, it's much more complicated than that as the Bible represents hundreds of different texts written over centuries.

You have the whole evolution of the idea of god from an early vengeful tribal god to a universal forgiving deity.

Lucifer is just a side story to teach about pride and it's fall.

If you think the whole Bible is a continuous and coherent set of texts to be read literally and describing the same thing from beginning to end, I have bad news for you.

If you think the fact that Yahweh is a vengeful deity or that there are inconsistencies in the Bible is enough to consider the whole thing irrelevant, I have other bad news for you.

Anyone trying to simplify or generalize the content of the Bible is doing it all wrong.
edit on 28-4-2014 by SpaceGoatFarts because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 12:09 PM

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Cuervo

Lucifer isn't called Satan until after his fall...

...Hope that makes sense.

Absolutely, it does. Psychological archetypes of the universe.

But personally I am used to discount the meaning incorporated in this words, as through history they have got overused. Thus like an old mistress, they serve anybody for anything, anyhow. Let us take the music genre for example. Satan is used in many song and even band names, to represent its apollonical trait, which I consider as a positive message. Lucifer you can find in many lyrics as everything, but the light bringer, so far away from its former legacy. Yet who are we to judge who, made who. If one decides that the moon should be called sun, and the sun should be called moon... or pineapple, he becomes automatically right for himself. This is his truth. His light. It is. Comma.

I call the pigeons, melons. You ask why? Because I thing the word melon is more harmonically vibrating with this beings, and furthermore it came spontaneously, thus from the light. Now, if you say to me that the pigeons are pigeons, and not melons, we will have the same conflict of dots and lines.

-Your friend, the Bartender
edit on 28-4-2014 by Egoismyname because: Chubbchubbs bite me leg

posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 12:10 PM
a reply to: jmdewey60

TextHow many gods do you think there are exactly? The god of the Abraham story brought him over across the border to be in His domain. Same thing with Moses, where his god brought the people across the Red Sea to be in His domain. This god lived on the top of a mountain and ruled whatever was within sight, similar to the gospel "devil" who tempted Jesus with his own dominion.

There is no way that I know of to tell how many gods are in the minds of people. Just in the realm of so called Christianity it is mind boggling. Some Christians do not believe that Jesus is the begotten Son of God. Some believe Him to have been an angel, some believe that He had no preexistence, some believe that He will not return to this earth while others believe He will. Some believe that dead is dead and they will reincarnate and it goes on and on. It does become very confusing just in this realm of Christianity. I see Christianity as a dumping ground for all sorts of ideas. I could never understand how any people could all claim the same God with such division and hatred.

What most people do not understand is that the God of the OT made a deal with the barbaric Hebrews which we see as a covenant. Now that deal is not the same deal that the same God made in the NT. Here is just one example. In the OT times the Hebrews were just as barbaric as any other people. They loved to butcher everything in sight and drink blood. God saw this as an abomination but how do you train people that it is wrong to drink blood? Well God made a rule that they could not even butcher their animals. They had to have a Levite kill the animal and then sprinkle the blood on the hot alter to burn it up. This prevented the people from drinking the blood till it could be bred out of their minds.

Sounds silly doesn't it? I spent some time in England in my youth and was astonished that Blood pudding was one of their favorite dishes. And yes they profess to be Christian people who do this. Now most all Hebrews today will not drink or digest blood simply because it has been bred out of their minds. But that is not to say that they are perfect or righteous any more than anyone else. In other words they are all on the same page in drinking blood and knowing Torah but does that make them any better or worse than anyone else? As the Hebrews became more civilized it did not make them righteous. There are lots of people that have no god whatsoever that are civilized intelligent people and for all we know they could be more righteous than we who think we are righteous.

The NT period is a transition period from OT (Moses deal) to a better understanding of the NT (Jesus deal) and even then it is not a perfect deal. Why? Because everyone is not on the same page and as long as there is freedom in thinking there will never be a perfect deal. I could bet anyone that you could not set just two people face to face and have them totally agree one with the other. It's impossible to say the least. Now if I know this then I am quite sure that God also knows it. That is why He has a permissive will. In His perfect will He would love to see all people agree totally but then He knows that it will never be done on this earth.

Now jmdewey I have read a lot of your posts and you do make many good points and believe it or not you have given me an awful lot to reconsider at times.

Text That just means that God can't force someone to be righteous. People as beings in this universe have a natural independence that even God Himself cannot violate. You make it sound as if it was a choice God made.

You are right . God cannot force anyone to become righteous and yes they do have that independence that God promised them through Adam. But then I do believe that God did make that choice as He created life. He could have left Adam a mindless creature with no knowledge but then, by choice, designed Adam to have knowledge. You accuse me of being a Luciferian rather that a Christian because I said knowledge came from evil? Evil is a spirit. It is not an entity and it did not come from Lucifer. The angels that sinned were the first to become Satan's simply because they embraced this spirit of disobedience while in the first creation. Why would God create Evil knowing that His very first celestial creation would embrace this disobedience? Then let me also ask you why didn't the other two thirds of His creation embrace the same spirit of disobedience of which the one third did embrace? Were not all aware of the same spirit?

Isaiah_45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Adam and Eve did have intelligence. They had the ability of language and awareness of do or do not. But, Adam and Eve did not have that knowledge to do evil. God presented that spirit in the garden. As children they knew that the Father told them no but they did not know why He said no. Don't you think all children do the same?

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This was not the knowledge called intelligence. This was the knowledge of realizing that you do evil. The awareness of what you previously were not aware of. You must consider that these two were not infants with the advantage of maturity. They were adult people who had the mentality of children. God purposely introduced evil (sin) into their minds to teach them that there is evil and that there is good. We call this the realization of righteousness and unrighteousness. Adam and Eve did not have this knowledge till it was shown. With God's foreknowledge, He knew that in order to have choice you must have something to choose from. That is all that I was trying to convey when I said that God did not have malice when He created the spirit of disobedience (evil).

posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 01:49 PM
a reply to: Cuervo

I find this rather interesting! Don't think I've heard it quite like that before. Do you have some links to anything that covers this?

<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in