God is the true DEVIL. Lucifer, not so much...

When taking verses out of the Bible as you have, the context becomes misinterpreted. For future reference I would advise that you read further to understand the context and the correct meaning.

Isaiah is issuing this oracle against the city, not the entire kingdom of Babylon. Babylon “Was the seat of the civilization that expressed organized hostility to God.” Babylon is associated with organized idolatry, blasphemy and the persecution of God's people.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
Why is it that god (christian god of the old testament) commits such evils while lucifer/satan does nothing but "tempt"?

lets see a few examples of the horrible things god does and see if anyone can find something the devil did that is even on par.

Isaiah 13:15-18: Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children

wow! pretty sick and twisted for a divine being!!!

Read it within the context of the entire prophecy. Babylon had run afoul of God and was therefore to pay the price for her sin.

Compare and contrast this to the destiny of Nineveh, which repented, in the book of Jonah. Isaiah lived in the eighth century BC and Babylon was known to have been desolate by the mid-second century BC. Babylon is also spoken of by Isaiah later in his prophesies (Isaiah 21), as well as in Jeremiah 51, as well as Revelation 14 and 18. Yet, in the main, prophecy teaches principle, not precision.

Babylon was evil. God allows evil to destroy evil.

Don't think for a second that God did not do everything in His power to turn this city from its evil path. He lets us have free will and so, just as Pharaoh was allowed to name his own doom, so went the Babylonians.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
2 Kings 2:23-24: The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

For a start the wording killed is incorrect. The correct wording is mauled. Therefor the bible does not say that they were killed. The reason Elisha was bald, was that he was in mourning was that his master Elijah had recently passed away. See: 2 Kings 2:11-12

If one looks closely, this was a poor translation on the King James Version part. The Hebrew name for the youths is neurim qetannim and can be best rendered to them meaning of young men. This term is used in several Old Testament passages. So these weren't children, these were young men that could have been 30 years old.

Another point two bears mauled 42 of them. So there would have been a mob/gang of young men against one prophet Elisha (the victim). We all know what pack mentality is and what can happen in such circumstances. So why was there a group of 42 young men roaming the city? Why were they not contributing to their families which was so crucial in those days? Most likely they where a gang that survived robbing others of their lives and property.

The Old Testament deals very harshly with rebellious and laziness, who will not work or listen to their parents.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
Exodus 12:29: God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

- God gave 9 clear and specific demands to let the Hebrews go, followed by a practical and forewarned consequence.
- The Pharaohs and the Egyptians had a comprehensive infanticide program running against the Hebrews for a good 80 odd years.
- The Egyptians first tried to control Hebrew numbers through forced labour, meaning they worked them literally to death. Men, women and children.
- The Egyptians then instituted the infanticide program where all Egyptians, who were trained to hate the Hebrews, where ordered and expected to kill all male male babies of the Hebrews upon birth, by drowning.
- Approximately 2,750,000 male Hebrew babies were murdered over the 80 years of slavery.
- This infanticide and the working the slaves to death, to manage the population levels of the Hebrews was set to continue, until God's intervention.
- Important note, there is no suggestion that either innocent deaths of the Hebrews or of the Egyptian male first-born children was a punishment to those children. There is absolutely no reason to think that Christ's death and resurrection, which reaches throughout ALL time, did not also mean that these children were brought into heaven. In fact, there is every reason to believe that these children are now living in paradise.
- The Egyptian first-born male children seem to have died in their sleep, with no suffering. On the other hand, the Egyptians killed the Hebrew children primarily through drowning.
- The 10th plague as an absolute last resort.
- Pharaoh was warned in no uncertain terms, and given ample opportunity to avoid the tragedy, but he and his court refused to release the Hebrew's from their tortuous and murderous slavery.
- Both the Egyptians and the Hebrews, as with most of the ancient civilisations of this time and location, operated under primitive and shared standards. “An eye for an eye”. The moral code of that time was that if it was alright for Pharaoh to kill the children of other races, then it was morally alright for other races to kill Egyptian children. That is to say, for every child the Egyptians killed, then the Hebrews and their God have the right to kill an Egyptian child. This code was such that a person of that time would never have held God responsible, but rather Pharaoh, who had begun the killing of innocents.
- God's action was a one-time event, which stopped the continuing killing by Pharaoh; Pharaoh's program was every day, every year, every decade.
Source
There where warnings that the arrival of nine plagues. 1: A description in detail of what will happen. 2: The call to Moses either to instruct Aaron. 3: The action taken. 4: A description of the consequence. (Can be found through Exodus Exodus 7 - 10:22-23) The plagues can be divided into three sets of three

Now referring to the 10th plague visited upon the Egyptians by God. Each plague was of a type that was intended to show the Egyptians that the God of the Hebrews was greater than any god the Egyptians might claim. The Hebrews had not even entered into the first covenant with God. They were themselves in the very early stages of coming to know God. They did not even have the Ten Commandments yet. So God was dealing with very primitive peoples on both sides and dealing with them in the ways of their time.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

Scholars estimate this would account for tens of thousands based on the population of Egyptians that were not Jewish.

God was actually extremely lenient on the Egyptians. He was able to meet the moral code of that time in such a way as to halt, once and for all, the Hebrew labour death camp and infanticide of the Hebrews. He did not take the first-born Egyptians in violence, but quickly, and in their sleep, for it happened around midnight. He tried over and over to stop this violence against the Hebrews, but to no avail.

In fact, the Egyptian response was to work them even harder, which is to say, they already worked so hard they were dying, so this meant they would be dying even more often.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
1 Kings 20:35-36: Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.

What did God get bored or something?

No God didn't get bored or something. The prophets, more than anyone else, were responsible for the symbolism of the Old Testament. The visions of the prophets were the pledge of impending divine activity. The lion is used by prophetic symbolism.

The the man that you think was attacked and killed by the lion was not in reality killed. The meaning of the lion, with its strength, its terrifying roar, its crouching and sudden leaping upon its prey, was used by the prophets to typify the divine wrath and judgment.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

How can you people worship such an evil entity? Obviously the threat of eternal hellfire is enough to keep you from seeing the evil your god is all about.

Kind of like how a certain dictator started committing horrid evils and the population just cosigned it. Letting a large amount of their population get sent to a dark place to be tortured and gassed. Just because they were of jewish descent and had different beliefs.

As I stated at the beginning of my first post that when you take verses out of the Bible as you have, the context becomes misinterpreted.

For future reference I would advise that you read further to understand the context and the correct meaning.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Good perspective.

Evil will end in a pitiful muted scream and humanity will feel relieved of a burden, then partytime!

a reply to: lonewolf2



Way to make em look childish.

a reply to: Aleister

The flood happened because satan and his followers came down to earth and made babies with the females, Gods creation. Also, satan and his gang taught man and woman about knowledge that we didn't need to know like: wearing make up, charms, making weapons, astrology, astronomy, manipulate genes, war and so on. Because Lucifer/Satan transgressed against God and mixed with us and made abominations which the ultimate goal was to poison the creation; us.

God set forth a flood that cleared the slate. So God had to clean the mess Satan made in the first place not God just flooded people for no reason. Your confused.

Face it people, God then and now made us and he doesn't like it when we act like a bunch of sex lusting drunks, money/material worshiping, blood sacrificing, idol worshiping, neighbor hating, parent rejecting, stealing, lying people. You act this way, even if your children are innocent you have soiled their innocents because of your actions and your evil deeds, those deeds will be carried on to the next generation as they are not forgiven by God unless you ask with your heart. Its your fault not Gods, you choose what you want and you can choose wrong.

originally posted by: On7a7higher7plane

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare
Why is it that god (christian god of the old testament) commits such evils while lucifer/satan does nothing but "tempt"?

lets see a few examples of the horrible things god does and see if anyone can find something the devil did that is even on par.


Isaiah 13:15-18: Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children

wow! pretty sick and twisted for a divine being!!!


2 Kings 2:23-24: The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.


Exodus 12:29: God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Scholars estimate this would account for tens of thousands based on the population of Egyptians that were not Jewish.

1 Kings 20:35-36: Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.

What did God get bored or something?



Well now does anybody have any scripture showing lucifer running around committing such evils?

If so post them below.


How can you people worship such an evil entity? Obviously the threat of eternal hellfire is enough to keep you from seeing the evil your god is all about.

Kind of like how a certain dictator started committing horrid evils and the population just cosigned it. Letting a large amount of their population get sent to a dark place to be tortured and gassed. Just because they were of jewish descent and had different beliefs.

My condolences for everyone on Earth that is butt-devestated about how hardcore my God is. No one had to listen to God, humanity could have just been allowed to destroy each other and stay low with no clear victors, only oppressors, until judgement day, but no, some people had to go around being awesome and wrecking the loser disbelievers and doing what God wanted them to in order to atone for humanities pitiful situation. Now we have winners and losers instead of just losers and losers and losers oppressing the spots of righteous people wherever they popped up.

People that did the crazy hardcore stuff that God demanded helped save other people and their descendents from a lot of trouble, they brought judgement to a people whom God would have brought a more direct judgement to had they disobeyed. And then they and the people that they decided to not destroy would have been losers instead.

Disbelievers just don't understand. God is good people, God never wronged anybody, people only wronged themselves. God's just doing his job of making things right.

You mentioned God killed Egypt's firstborns, remember Egypt was the worlds major power at the time, think of all the bloodshed spared because of God stripping Egypt of power. They were sacrificing and killing thousands and thousands of people in warfare, had they continued and not gotten put down things could have gotten worse for the world.

Remember other cult-religions following other gods where people were murdering tons of infants and virgins, burning them alive and slitting their throats and drinking their blood. This is sick stuff, I'm glad people obeyed God and destroyed them. It feels good knowing that I'm the winner, feels good being the one that gets to rock and that everyone that's not down with my God is a loser, and this in particular isn't even coming from an egotistical place. Because if everyone just obeyed God and submitted to the fact that they all get theirs and theirs nothing they can do to stop it the world would be paradise already without war with everybody easy living and working together to do great things and enjoy each other and the Earth. # anyone that would get in the way of that or even dispute it, they don't deserve life and every second that they are allowed to breathe is a mercy that they should be eternally grateful for.

God it feels good being hard core.

Your God motivates through fear. Your God uses mass genocide as a means of solving his problems. Your God doesn't have the ability to forgive people without the spilling of blood. Your God savors the smell of burning flesh.

My God loves unconditionally. My God is above anger, vengeance, wrath, and jealousy. My God does not kill and my God cannot be killed. My God knows that love conquers all. In my eyes, it doesn't get any more hardcore than that.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Humans do not live in harmony with nature any longer, this is the fall that Genesis speaks of where Lucifer is transformed (fallen) into Satan.

Jesus (Lucifer) being tempted by Satan is a metaphor for the struggle we all go through, that is the ego trying to take control.

Good post. I do my level best to live in harmony with nature as much as I can (being a fragile human who requires clothing, shelter, etc - I can't just live in the open)...but I'm surrounded by plants, animals (including fish, dogs, cats - used to have horses and birds and other species) a 'natural yard', and living as close to 'off the grid' and 'out of the ratrace' as is manageable.

Call me a 'tree-hugger'.

As for your second sentence - I was just thinking that!!! I suppose Jesus' 'conversation' with Satan was simply a story about a dialogue in his head.... Two thoughts opposed to one another. And yes, a metaphor. A fable, like Aesop's Fables.

i dunno. just spewing stream of thought typed out words. Words, words, words, as Hamlet said.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Heaven is way better than Earth in its' current state so really, I am truly grateful that God makes things right and destroys these people that are losers.

Enjoy your free will.

a reply to: lonewolf2

You are extremely wise. I enjoyed reading this, appreciation your way.

a reply to: bitsforbytes

God set forth a flood that cleared the slate.

The only 'floods' that happened were due to glacial melt, and were local.

And Noah's Ark never was.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Text Why is it that god (christian god of the old testament) commits such evils while lucifer/satan does nothing but "tempt"?

I think that what you reference is not just the Christian God. You seem to bring another thread with the intent to bash Christians when in fact the God of Abraham's seed is the God of the Hebrews as well as the God of the Muslims as well as most Christians. You do realize that not all who claim Christianity have the same God? So to be sensible I believe you should just reference the biblical God and leave out the Christian bashing.

The misnomer "Lucifer" is just that. It is only shown once in the 1611 KJV bible and that is in Isaiah 14:12 by the organized Roman Church. The Satan who was cast from the celestial was but one of many Satan's. A Satan is any created entity who is against God. The Satan and His minions who were cast from the celestial realm to this earth are now bound in hell. The Satan who tempted Jesus is of the same spirit of disobedience but not that Satan who is now bound in hell.
The Satan's of hell are none other than fallen angels whereas the Satan's which are demons are of the earth.

Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

You left out several key points of understanding that you wrote against your Creator. The prime example being that God did not commit any of the acts of discord that you accuse Him. With His foreknowledge He allowed His creation, through their own evil, to commit the acts of aggression against themselves. That is called free will. God does not force anyone to commit sin. He allows one to commit sin by their own choice. That is called His permissive will. His perfect will is that no one will commit sin and that will prevail in the end time but till people learn to love all of creation His permissive will prevails.

Once again, in reference to the Passover, God gave fair warning to the Pharaoh and the entire nation of Egypt that the angel of death would destroy the first born if they did not obey His edict but then the free will enters this account also. Just as you condemn God, that is your free will. You do this with the knowledge that one day you will also die but you choose this type of path to try to destroy God. By the way do you realize that first born does not necessarily mean child? I have a 58 year old first born child. Don't you think that the Egyptians also had similar children? Also these Hebrews were not Jewish as you suppose.

You seem to misunderstand death. Death has been the sentence of this creation since the beginning. All of this terrestrial creation will die. Every last person on this earth will one day die. Most people simply put this fact out of their minds. Every person in that passover is now dust. Regardless of whether or not they were the first born or last born, every one has to die. Does it matter to the Creator whether you die today or tomorrow? He gives everyone the same opportunity to have everlasting life after death. There is the key to understanding death. That is your choice right now and that is the same choice that God gave Pharaoh and the Egyptian nation.

Where is your outrage in the murdering of millions of children each year by all nations of this earth? Not by God but by the hands of people. You have the audacity to condemn God and not yourself. The people of today will make God look like a piker when it comes to murder. Do you blame wars and abortion on God? You talk foolishly and you have not a leg to stand on.

The final point I would make is that of evil. God created evil but not in malice. Evil had to be shown to His creation in order for His creation to have knowledge. Evil was shown to the celestial creation first just as it was shown to the terrestrial creation last. Creation would not understand righteousness without understanding its opposite of unrighteousness. Just as you and I would not understand ice or fire in connection with cold and hot. All physics must have comparison for understanding and the mind cannot function with free will without this understanding. Evil is a teaching tool for the mind and in order to build a first class civilization you must have this tool. It is hoped that once this creation accepts love then evil will not prevail in the creation of God.

Oh wow you figured it out. Peace gets you stuck here and death takes you home. The true enemy of the spirit is peace. This place is temporary and all can choose to stay but none will remain. Peace comes from within and within is the spirit.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

As discussed by my some of my brothers and sisters here, the god in the Old Testament is not what whom you think he happened to be. I am about to tell you a few things that may shock you, or you may already know about it. Firstly, you may already know that Yahweh was not the Creator. He was a god who was assigned to look after Earth at that time period. Though he was powerful since he was a god, he had many human traits due to a being who existed in the 3rd dimension just like us. He was jealous, chose the people liked or disliked, strict to the core, and even hated most human beings and wanted some of us dead. However, as awful as that seems to be, Yahweh listened to people who were loyal and followed his laws. There was love in his heart, but in his own way.

So with this understanding, the True Creator is not at all like the god in the Old Testament. The Creator of this Universe, in fact, live in an entirely different reality that is ONENESS compared to this world with Polarity (always splitting the ideas of Good, Evil, or just Neutral). Have you not heard of the unconditional Love of our Creator? This unconditional Love is very different from the Love you are used to where it requires others to do something for you. The mentality of scratching my back and I'll scratch yours is the essence of Duality Consciousness we live here.

In Heaven where there is no Duality (the 5th Dimension and where the first world of true God Consciousness), you will finally realize that Good and Evil don't exist, but are merged together into ONENESS. Yes, there is still Duality in the 4th Dimension, but much less. In times past, Archangel Michael represented the Light while Archangel Lucifer represented the Darkness. But neither are better than the other in God's Eye. Because they are here to help us understand the two sides of the coin, but yet it is just a Single coin.

originally posted by: Specimen


Well Lucifer's in both book. And Yah Weh probably had hard time hurting, whatever Lucifers supposed to be.

That is very incorrect statement.The word lucifer (transliterated as hêlêl or heylel) is used ONE time in the book of Isaiah.It is not a proper name it's an adjective.The whole myth of Lucifer being a fallen archangel who became "Satan" is false and is NOWHERE in ALL of the scriptures it is foolish religious fantasy just as"the devil" is the God of the OT is.

a reply to: ctophil

Sheesh a guy turns his head for one second then they deny he ever had a head. However much of what you say is true but there is a few things you got wrong. I can tell you are begining to see. If you look further back you will find the truth you are missing. The places we all dream of do not exist if the duality here does not exist. One dimension relies on the others and the GOD and creator are the same outside of all. The so called tempory GOD as you put it did create this universe. Two becomes one again.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: igloo
a reply to: Akragon

Perhaps Jesus was sent to ask us to forgive his father's sins, not the other way round.

No...

he was sent to reveal the true God... and relieve man of his false beliefs, such as animal sacrifices... the idea of revenge taught in the OT ( an eye for an eye) and many other things...

God is NOT a tyrant... he is merciful and kind...

Unless you believe the words of God are in the OT... Then God is a maniac, bent on making life complicated and literally a living hell on earth

until the last part of the bible, where his true nature returns and he annihilates you in the worst ways imaginable for not doing things exactly as he said.