Russian jets cross into Ukraine airspace

a reply to: deadcalm

This just smacks of more western propaganda.

Yup, you were right!

Yet another FABRICATED lie coming from the US Ministry of Truth

Neither Russian troops, nor planes crossed into Ukraine – acting DM Koval

Ukraine's acting Defence Minister Mikhail Koval has said that neither Russian troops, nor aircraft crossed into Ukraine during a military exercise.

The Ukrainian coup-imposed acting defense minister, Mikhail Koval, on Saturday told journalists that no violations of state borders by the Russian aircraft or troops have been recorded.



“Four [Russian] transport airplanes Il-76 were flying along our state border but they did not cross the borderline,” Koval was quoted as saying by Interfax-Ukraine.

Russian planes have not entered Ukrainian airspace - Moscow


. . . And here comes the US Ministry of Truth's distortion & twisting of verified facts:

Ukrainian prime minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk says Russian military aircraft had crossed the country's airspace seven times "to provoke Ukraine to start a war".

Link

^^^ Either they have no shame or they're very disorganized.


Russia's response to this is Hilarious!

The US sources must have “dreamed it all up,” or “a little bird told them that,” the spokesman added.

Lastly, Russia gives good advice about listening to Western media:

The Defense Ministry spokesman called on Pentagon officials to stop “spreading unverified ‘facts’ through the media,” saying that “it does not at all help de-escalate the situation in Ukraine.”

originally posted by: deadcalm
Russia DID NOT annex Crimea....the Crimean people held a fair referendum an VOTED to return to Russia. What does International Law have to say about overthrowing a democratically elected government??

Russia did annex Crimea, the fact that you refute this is nonsensical and pretty much renders anything else you say on this subject null and void. You cannot possibly claim that anything else happened - Russia invaded Crimea, installed a pro-Russian leader without public vote (one who had less than 5% of public support in previous votes), then held an illegal referendum.

These are facts, whether you want to pretend they didn't happen or not.

In addition, the government in Kiev was not overthrown or removed.

The elected representatives of the people were there, and are there. They voted almost unanimously to fire Yanukovych and called for fresh democratic elections after he opened fire on his people, and he fled the country.

Again, denial of facts makes you look ridiculous. If you cannot even accept reality, you have no ground to stand on while debating this subject.

originally posted by: deadcalm
The CIA's support of a bunch of fascists and oligarchs in the overthrow of a democratically elected government right on Russia's border, creating instability and the possibility of a civil war is a clear threat to Russia's security.

Provide any evidence of CIA involvement in the democratic protest. I have yet to see any evidence of any Western influence in Ukraine other than the democratic will of the people to move away from Russia and toward a democratic Europe.

originally posted by: deadcalm
What Russian agression are you refering to exactly?? The Ultra-nationalist fascists in Kiev have been responsible for all the violence to date. How many Crimean's did the Russian kill again?? As of today...Russia has not violated the territorial integrity of the Ukraine by sending in Russian troops/ equipment.

There are undoubtedly Right wing members involved in the events in Kiev, but unlike you I am willing to accept the reality. The fact that you reject Russian involvement even after Putin admitted it, shows that you are pretty much delusional on this subject and nothing you say can be taken seriously.

Russia has invaded and annexed Crimea, and there are Russian forces operating in East Ukraine, there is plenty of factual evidence and even an admission from Putin that he acted in Crimea. You can deny this all you like, it does not change reality.

originally posted by: deadcalm
Do you have any CREDIBLE evidence other than some "US official's" word for it??

Well, lets see. The UK, US, Germany and Ukraine have all stated that this incursion took place, Russia has not denied it. So, logically, which do you think has more merit?

I love how so many here selectively pick and choose what they want to believe, depending on their argument. You'll happily paste links to bloggers and RT when it supports YOUR preferred version of events, but anything else is "propaganda".

I am willing to look at various aspects of this, and I understand that it's complex and that there's inevitably going to be propaganda from both sides. The notion that Russia is completely innocent in all of this, and that they are not acting to destabilize Ukraine is such extreme bias it's verging on mental instability.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

So a Russian news blog and RT are 100% truth and accurate, but western media is all "propaganda"?

Right, you're not completely biased and irrational at all, are you

a reply to: deadcalm

Ok, I'm supposed to support Putin because my government has a horrible track record. how about this, I don't trust Russia or the US. I want the Ukraine to freely do as they please without the threat of Russian troops entering their country and claiming anymore of their land.

a reply to: Rocker2013

How would you feel if you got caught with your pants down telling a WHOPPER of a lie?

. . . This is coming on the heels of the NYT that had to print a retraction lol.

EVERY. SINGLE. WESTERN. MEDIA. RAN. THIS. LIE.

Thats why they're so mum on Ukraine's Defence Minister saying No Troops or Aircraft crossed into Ukraine.

Give a few hours, it'll be reported more.

originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
EVERY. SINGLE. WESTERN. MEDIA. RAN. THIS. LIE.

Prove it that this is a lie. If you are so sure, then demonstrate that it is all made up.

Personally, at the moment I see the Russians as the liars and manipulators - look to Crimea for the evidence there, and the photos of massed Russian forces on Ukraine's borders. In both cases Russia was accused, denied and then confessed.

Regards

a reply to: deadcalm

I dunno.... they track their own Ukrainian planes flying in that area.
You speak of all this western propaganda as if the other argument doesn't do exactly the same to justify their own actions. How can I not take this article seriously when Russia has already sent troops into Ukrainian soil?

and if Poland invites US troops to "train" or whatever, they're allowed to do that since Poland is a sovereign nation and can do as they please with which ever country they desire.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

if all these media outlets are suddenly retracting the original story how is this WESTERN PROPAGANDA WAR MACHINE. maybe its was just a mistake or faulty information that got reported? I don't believe everything i read but I can do my own research.

the Russians should do the same with their propaganda

a reply to: JDmOKI

Just as you, others have done their research in regards to the NYT spoon fed lie that was given to them to report. . .

It took over a day for the REAL FACTS to surface & then NYT had to print a retraction. All other Western outlets distanced themselves from this act. Try and find a Western based outlet that reported on the NYT Retraction??


Very hard to find.

a reply to: JDmOKI

I don't trust Russia or the US. I want the Ukraine to freely do as they please without the threat of Russian troops entering their country and claiming anymore of their land.

Nor do I...however the Ukraine has been taken over by fascists and oligarchs supported by the US. So in this particular instance I have more trust in the Russians than the US.

You cannot simply ignore the horrible track record of the US Gov....Russia on the other hand has kept to itself during the last 12 years of American aggression abroad...Russia is not the one invading country after country....leaving more than a million dead and 5 million homeless in their wake.

FYI....the Russians did NOT claim the Crimea....the Crimean people VOTED to return to Russia....there is a huge difference.