View homosexually tolerant film, or school faces lawsuit

Originally posted by OttsAgain we fall into the Bible, and even though Leviticus (among other books) says that "lying with a man as with a woman" is abominable, it also prescribes the ways in which you can sell your daughter into slavery, and directs you to smite your neighbors for various transgressions.

It's about opening their minds to every kind of ideas, so they can expand their minds.

Ideas that are being forced as acceptable behavior when it clearly is not. Expand their minds? Yup you got it, indoctrinate them to believe that what the parents teach is hate, that is where it will lead to. This is just a first step in indoctrination for the children. Tax dollars I would rather spend the way I see fit. Socialism.




So lets go over this one more time, Old Testement out ok?
NEW TESTAMENT - LAW IS NO LONGER - FOREGIVENESS COMES TO ALL

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:

Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

1 Cor 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Rev 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance.
I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

Well, I was going to make this fantastic post quoting snippets from the last few pages, but I can't be stuffed. So I'll just rant like always.

For those who are saying that showing this one film on tolerating others is as bad as forcing kids to be taught to be Christians in schools, thats a load. Perhaps if there was an issue with hate crimes against christians, and there was christian-bashing going on. Christians getting routinely picked on and insulted at the school. Then yes absolutely there should be christian tolerance lessons. But that is not the case.

Ed: quoting little bits and pieces from your 2 thousand year old book really doesn't have much bearing on this case. Believe what you like, what is defined as a sin in the bible has no bearing on what is legal and allowed in your country. Nor does it have any bearing in mine. You might have enjoyed it in Afghanistan when the Taliban were in charge though. They let their holy book do all the defining of the laws.

Surely you have private schools run by religious groups over there in the US? If you are that worried why not just send them to those schools? As a bonus they get to learn creationism in science class instead of that pesky evolution.

I'm still amazed that all these bigoted straight people are insisting they know more about being gay than gay people do. Gays insist that it isnt a conscious choice. Yet pastor Bob from Kentucky (whos probably never met a gay person in his life) can insist that it is a choice?

Its a film about tolerance. Its not exposing the kids to gays. The kids will already know about homosexuality. Its not telling them to be gay. All its teaching them is that its not OK to attack or abuse those who are homosexual. Isn't that what your bible teaches too?

Why is everyone insisting on making this some sort of issue of a Gay Agenda, or the ACLU attacking Christianity? For crying out loud, its a film teaching children not to hate homosexuals. Thats it.

A film teaching kids not to hate, and the Conservatives are furious about it.

Did you guys ever see the movie "The Name of the Rose", based on the novel by Umberto Eco? It takes place in the 14th century, in a Benedictine monastery. There's an old monk, Venerable Jorge, who hates both laughter (which deforms the face and makes it into a monkey's mask) and especially knowledge - because, Jorge says, God did not mean us to know more than what knowledge was sent to us already. He believes that the rest of mankind's time on earth should be spent not in discovery but in "divine recapitulation" of what God has revealed to us.

That, my friends, is what awaits us if we "shield" our children from diversity and new ideas (especially tolerance!) because it doesn't fit into what "God has already revealed".

Originally posted by edsinger
You act as if Church's teach Christians to go beat the # out of them and that is further from the truth than you could possibly know. They teach us to love them but do not fail to point out the fact that they live in sin and can be forgiven, but they must understand that it is sin in the eyes of the Creator.

I'm not saying the Christians were the ones commiting hate crimes towards gays...it was more about that hate crimes exist period. I have no idea if the people who committed these crimes were Christian, but I don't see how being an intolerant Christian and passing that on to your children helps matters much.

We just see it very differently...on one side you are a Christian and you feel like your beliefs are being attacked...I, on the other side do not see Christians as the real victims of society here...but the homosexuals. I also am a firm believer that Christianity needs to stay out of our government as well as public schools. Not because I think they are evil...LOL, but because it tends to create conflict as well as seclusion for those who aren't Christian! Therefore, what you claim your God to believe in doesn't matter. I'd say the same thing to a Muslim or a Jew.

This reminds me of when I was in high school and some Christian parents were in an uproar because the biology teacher taught us about evolution...
After that the teachers had to send a warning slip home to the parents so that their kids had an option of staying in the library instead of attending class that day. Maybe teachers should do the same thing here...

May sound extreme, but they had the same fears as you do Ed...that their children would alienate the "word of God..." and start disagreeing with their creationist parents...God forbid!

You are so predictable, you calling me a sinner? Yup, your right I am. I recognize it also and I try not to sin as best I can but the flesh is weak but I never deny that I sin.

That wasn't my point to label you as a sinner but to maybe worry about your own "sins" instead of everyone else's. Tolerating homosexuals IS NOT A SIN!

As for the war, well we should have let the Nazi's kill all the Jews even the gay ones as we can not justify war under Gods command?

I was talking about how you go to great lengths to make your pro-war statements about THE WAR WE ARE IN NOW. Do you really think WW2 and the war in Iraq are comparable? Are you going to use the "what about WW2...and Hitler" excuse everytime someone doesn't support a war? Will you always support war because your government tells you to? Will you choose to ignore other verses in the Bible that don't support your pro-war stance? Thing is you don't get very far when you argue about what God wants according to the Bible...since it's full of contradictions.

Hypocrites? How so? When did I say I wasn't a sinner? When did I say something is not a sin to suit my own agenda?

Basically it wasn't a personal attack but on Christians who claim to be self-rightous and slam people for any "so-called sin". Then if they commit a "sin", they tend to ignore it or make excuses for themselves...

You say you don't hate homosexuals but their actions...yet you have the audacity to compare it to beastiality and pedophillia. How can I make this more personal so you can understand how that translates to others...
That's like someone comparing your beloved Bush to Hitler...do you like that? Because that's how extreme you go to make homosexuality look evil in all of our eyes...when in all seriousness you have no clue about these people because if you did you would have never made such a nasty statement like that. A person doesn't have to come right out and say how they feel for their true feelings to be apparent to all. Who are we kidding here?

(BTW sorry to any homosexuals who were offended by comparing them to Bush...was just trying to find a way for Ed to see how offensive his comparing homosexuality to pedophillia could be percieved by others.)

Originally posted by edsinger

And where do I advocate this? I respect them but do not condone their acts. I do not make fun of them I pity them and want to the sin no more, I do not insult them by being truthful with them, their kids? Wait if they are ...nevermind.

You didn't advocate it, but that's what toleration is. Respect for another does not mean that you must agree with them or their sexuality or think it's moral or OK.

The film in question is not one that asks you to give up your beliefs and morality, but one that advocates respect for your fellow human being. You can still have your beliefs and be respectful, tolerant. You can still have your beliefs and treat homosexuals like the people they are.

Wow, some of you guys really need to get a grip.

Calling homosexuality wrong does NOT mean we're calling a gay person subhuman. We are ALL sinners...homosexuality is one of those sins.

Gays are human too and have God-given basic human rights like anyone else. It's just that homosexuality is perversion.

Simply put, you should not harass ANYONE. And the ACLU's definition of "harassment" does not apply. Calling something like it is is not harassment, as the ACLU would have you believe.

If I get on my son's case for doing something wrong, am I harassing him? Hm...according to the Anti-Christian Liars Union I am. And my son would think so too, because he would not want to admit he's wrong about anything (even though he's not quite 3).

It's human nature not to want to be called out for doing something wrong. It's human nature to want to justify everything. That's what the problem is.

Do you think that maybe the real reason parents dont want their children to be taught tolerance is because the children will realize how bigoted and untolerant their parents are?

Originally posted by jupiter869
Do you think that maybe the real reason parents dont want their children to be taught tolerance is because the children will realize how bigoted and untolerant their parents are?

Nope--I just don't want my child to be indoctrinated with this crap. I plan on instilling moral values in my child, and I will NOT allow these ultra-liberals to undermine that!

I'm intolerant of sin. How's that?

And please stop throwing the term "bigot" around. That gets so old and I think by now everyone knows it's just mind games.

Originally posted by Amethyst
Simply put, you should not harass ANYONE.

Agreed.

And the ACLU's definition of "harassment" does not apply. Calling something like it is is not harassment, as the ACLU would have you believe.

What's the ACLU's definition of harrasment then, just so we can be clear?
Calling it like it is?

Originally posted by Amethyst

I'm intolerant of sin. How's that?

Your intolerance and HATRED is the biggest sin. How sad you teach your children to HATE. Thats not good, you should know that.

Originally posted by edsinger
So lets go over this one more time, Old Testement out ok?
NEW TESTAMENT - LAW IS NO LONGER - FOREGIVENESS COMES TO ALL

zzzzzzz snort yawn. Sorry feel asleep. Thought I was in Sunday school. Let me remind you of this: Even the Devil can quote scripture to his own end.

Originally posted by Amethyst

Nope--I just don't want my child to be indoctrinated with this crap. I plan on instilling moral values in my child, and I will NOT allow these ultra-liberals to undermine that!

I'm intolerant of sin. How's that?

And please stop throwing the term "bigot" around. That gets so old and I think by now everyone knows it's just mind games.

Friend, you are afraid. Fear spurs hatred. I'm a Christian and I will pray for you. Peace, not hatred.

Originally posted by LeckyThat wasn't my point to label you as a sinner but to maybe worry about your own "sins" instead of everyone else's. Tolerating homosexuals IS NOT A SIN!

Now Lets try this again, it is not a sin in your eyes but to me it is and why?

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 1 Cor 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

And we are told that is pleased the Lord that men did not tolerate sin,

Rev 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance.
I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.



You call it tolerating, I guess we need to see again what the definition of that is.

Main Entry: tol�er�ate
Etymology: Latin toleratus, pp. of tolerare to endure, put up with; akin to Old English tholian to bear, Latin tollere to lift up, latus carried (suppletive past participle of ferre), Greek tlEnai to bear
Date: 1531
1 : to exhibit physiological tolerance for (as a drug)
2 a : to suffer to be or to be done without prohibition, hindrance, or contradiction b : to put up with

OK so we have that one understood. I put up with homosexuals, even had some friends that were. I work with them, therefore I tolerate them. But I do not condone the actions. And I don't want my children being told that it is acceptable in a moral way. It is not, but that does not mean that I hate them, I wish them to repent and live free of the sin of homosexuality.

Originally posted by LeckyThing is you don't get very far when you argue about what God wants according to the Bible...since it's full of contradictions.

Well that is a matter of opinion and I would not force it upon you at all. BUT as my beliefs are that it is the Word of God, what about offending me and my family? It is OK to be tolerant except if it is a Christian ideal?

Originally posted by LeckyYou say you don't hate homosexuals but their actions...yet you have the audacity to compare it to beastiality and pedophillia. How can I make this more personal so you can understand how that translates to others...

I am not saying one is worse than the other as they both are sexually immoral. Sexual immorality is just as wrong if it were adultery or fornication. Look I fornicated and therefore I sinned, but I recognized it as such and did not demand of anyone to accept it as anything but sinful.

Originally posted by Lecky(BTW sorry to any homosexuals who were offended by comparing them to Bush...was just trying to find a way for Ed to see how offensive his comparing homosexuality to pedophillia could be percieved by others.)

Again, sin is sin and the comparison I have better explained, Adultery and fornication are sin, both of them.

Originally posted by FredT Let me remind you of this: Even the Devil can quote scripture to his own end.

Oh how right you are, but Gods word the devil can not change he can only manipulate you into believing 9 truths to get you to accept one lie. Hence that homosexuality is normal behavior and is not sinful.

The cry is always "them intolerant hypocritical Christians" , yet we just follow what the Word teaches and this is the same foundation upon this republic was founded.

Keep quoting ed, maybe I can find some Dr Seuss and quote back, it would be as relevant.

This is not teaching kids to be gay, or love gays. It is teaching them not to hate gays. That it isn't OK to bash gays or abuse gays. How is that a bad thing?

Originally posted by KanoThis is not teaching kids to be gay, or love gays. It is teaching them not to hate gays. That it isn't OK to bash gays or abuse gays. How is that a bad thing?

You fail to get it, no # it is not teaching them to be gay! Nor is it teaching them to not hate gays that offends me. It is the teaching that the lifestyle choice is acceptable and that nothing is wrong with it. What part do you not get?

Originally posted by Amethyst
Nope--I just don't want my child to be indoctrinated with this crap.

What crap? Telling people not to hate gays?

I plan on instilling moral values in my child, and I will NOT allow these ultra-liberals to undermine that!

Yes that is the goal of liberals to corrupt all Christians and take away their "morals". Then to instill evil moral values like "Don't hate homosexuals"...

And please stop throwing the term "bigot" around. That gets so old and I think by now everyone knows it's just mind games.

ONCE AND FOR ALL,

IT IS THE TEACHING OF THE IDEA THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS ACCEPTABLE AND NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BEHAVIOR THAT OFFENDS US.

This teaching is not the job of the schools and Christians do not teach hate to their kids, it is this same argument that the homosexuals bring forth every time and it deliberately misses the point.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by edsinger
ONCE AND FOR ALL,

IT IS THE TEACHING OF THE IDEA THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS ACCEPTABLE AND NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BEHAVIOR THAT OFFENDS US.

This teaching is not the job of the schools and Christians do not teach hate to their kids, it is this same argument that the homosexuals bring forth every time and it deliberately misses the point.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by edsinger]

Yep, they keep on missing it. When will they understand that we don't need no steenking video to tell us to DO UNTO OTHERS?

It's indoctrination, pure and simple. I plan on teaching my son to treat everyone with courtesy.

Homosexuality is not acceptable. Period. I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with treating ALL PEOPLE with dignity and respect--but that does NOT entail giving deviant behavior my stamp of approval!

Originally posted by edsinger
IT IS THE TEACHING OF THE IDEA THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS ACCEPTABLE AND NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BEHAVIOR THAT OFFENDS US.

The Laws of your country do not outlaw homosexuality, they expressly permit people to make their own choices about lifestyle. Like it or not, Homosexuality is acceptable by Law in your country. What your Bible says is irrelevant. If more people taught their kids not to hate then it wouldn't be a problem and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unfortunately, it is a problem, Gay people are being abused and attacked. The idea behind the tolerance training is to stop that hatred and abuse, if you don't teach your kids this then theres no problem.

Not wanting children to learn tolerance for others just because your religious beliefs don't think we should tolerate others is bad luck. Its just as ignorant as those who don't want evolution to be taught in schools.