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View homosexually tolerant film, or school faces lawsuit

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posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
This thread is misleading, the video on "tolerance" is not enforcing "children" to become gay, we have enough hate crimes and we need to stop and that is the end of it. Edsinger I guess you go the reaction you wanted you want to get an agenda on gay bashing and you got your hart desires.Shame on you.


No marg, I am just pointing out that this agenda should not be forced upon my children. To teach that sin is tolerable and should not be frowned upon and normal is wrong. The state has no reason to force my child to watch this. If a cult, sacrificed dogs and ate them and wanted to show that it was OK and children should be tolerant of this, should the kids be forced to watch it in the name of diversity? This is not a gay bashing thread, would you consider it OK for a movie to be shown about Christianity and how it deals with homosexuality? I would bet not and yet what is being done here is OK?




posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 03:43 PM
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Ed, it turns out the video is about "tolerance" in many areas. Not just viewing a homosexual flick.

I should have read this closer. I am not against the school teaching children about tolerance. I think they should have done it 100 years ago.
My bad for not having read the article for myself and basing an answer on the misleading title of this thread.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

No marg, I am just pointing out that this agenda should not be forced upon my children. To teach that sin is tolerable and should not be frowned upon and normal is wrong. The state has no reason to force my child to watch this. If a cult, sacrificed dogs and ate them and wanted to show that it was OK and children should be tolerant of this, should the kids be forced to watch it in the name of diversity? This is not a gay bashing thread, would you consider it OK for a movie to be shown about Christianity and how it deals with homosexuality? I would bet not and yet what is being done here is OK?


Here is where the question "Why is it ok to push our own agenda on your kids?" comes into play. Just because they are yours, you can force your own agenda upon them? Without giving them the chance to form their own opinions? If that is the case, you're just as bad as the people you're speaking out against.

This was a gay bashing thread the moment you clicked post when you claimed a "homosexual agenda."

As for forcing people to view a film about Christianity's view on gays...as long as it isn't shown in a school or on state property. I couldn't care less. Religion and State do not mix. It is ILLEGAL.

You can show whatever you want. That's the glory of America. Whether it's nonscence or not, you have the right to say it.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia
That first article you linked....

It seem to be associating HIV/AIDS with homosexuality; as if it doesn't happen to heterosexuals. That's hardly the case,

I have a survey which shows HIV cases are rising among gays more than they are with straight people! washingtontimes.com...
sorry that this is beside the point of this thread!

[edit on 28-11-2004 by IAF101]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Ed, it turns out the video is about "tolerance" in many areas. Not just viewing a homosexual flick.
I should have read this closer. I am not against the school teaching children about tolerance. I think they should have done it 100 years ago.
My bad for not having read the article for myself and basing an answer on the misleading title of this thread.



Whew I thought the world must be ending or something. Look the film is not a porn flick at all and I realize that. The ACLU will want to slam anything Christian, it is discrimination in reverse.



Originally posted by Garon
Here is where the question "Why is it ok to push our own agenda on your kids?" comes into play. Just because they are yours, you can force your own agenda upon them? Without giving them the chance to form their own opinions? If that is the case, you're just as bad as the people you're speaking out against.


No, it is the state forcing a film on my children that teaches that sin is acceptable and morally OK in this country. The school has not right to teach morality to my children. PERIOD.

Tolerance? What do you think Christian parents teach their children to hate homosexuals? How far off from reality that is. We teach them that it is wrong and sinful and against Gods wishes, but the people are sinners just like you and I , they just fail to recognize the sin.



Originally posted by GaronThis was a gay bashing thread the moment you clicked post when you claimed a "homosexual agenda."


Not at all, nor would the one about the Boy Scouts and homosexuals be one either. There is an agenda for acceptance but there is already a thread on this one...

Actually it confuses the # out of me to see the ACLU take up for Christians when they do, but it is very RARE.



Originally posted by GaronAs for forcing people to view a film about Christianity's view on gays...as long as it isn't shown in a school or on state property. I couldn't care less. Religion and State do not mix. It is ILLEGAL.


So teaching morals decided by the state is ok?


Let me further the detail a bit...

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

This is a normal act then? Why should it be legislated as such?

1 Cor 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


As a Christian it is our faith that tells us to make the offenders aware of their sin, not kill them, or discriminate against them. Love them and teach them them the Good News. They can be forgieven and change the life of sin in which they live.


1 Cor 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Notice the "were", that means that people can change their hearts!

Rev 2:2 I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.

So we are to ignore our Lord's teachings for the sake of tolerance? The Church at Ephesus was being told that not accepting or tolerating sin is pleasing in Gods eyes. But notice it does not say 'stone' them or kill them.

This film is indoctrination and nothing more and everyone here knows it.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:18 PM
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Ed, it is only a sin in your Christian opinion. That does not actually make it wrong, its only wrong to you, because of your beliefs. People become intollerant to your beliefs because you are intollerant to theirs. Do you see a pattern?

Another person being gay, in NO way HARMS or HURTS you. So why should anyone try to HARM or HURT them? They should not. Tollerance is all about letting live let live. Tollerance needs to be taught, there is so much un-necesary hatred. All that energy could be used on something more creative.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:21 PM
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I have no desire to read quotes from the bible. I can quote Stephen King books and get the same effect you're striving for.

Christianity teaches condemnation of people who are different.

From Dictionary.com:

condemnation ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kndm-nshn)
n.

The act of condemning.
The state of being condemned.
Severe reproof; strong censure.
A reason or occasion for condemning.

I'm sorry...but how do you condemn someone you love? Seems to me you have to have at least a minimal sense of dislike in order to condemn someone.

Christianity is nothing but a giant hypocritical ball neatly rolled and tossed around to be applied where someone sees fit.

You want to pick and choose which parts of that religion apply and which don't mean anything anymore. You don't like the way someone lives so you get on your high horse and condemn them for it.

BS. In my opinion.

The state isn't teaching morality, in fact, they're the last people who should be doing that.

The intent is to encourage living among people who are different than you peacefully.

Something that some people seem incapable of comprehending, let alone, accomplishing.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Mynaeris

Marg: I have a question for you - when you see the screen names Edsinger and Grady philpott do you have to disagree automatically?




No only when they use misleading threads to encourage gay bashing.

And you are right is the parents duty to teach their children at home.

But do you think is ok for parents to tell their children that gays are sick and dirty and that they don't have a place in society?

Then when it comes to that somebody has to bring the tolerance as an issue, the subject is broader than some may want to give it credit.

Hate crimes should not be tolerated because of the believe of some.


Should a parent be allowed to tell their child gays are sick, dirty, immoral, and degenerate scum? Absolutely. It is their right as a parent to instil their own moral and political and religous beliefs on their children. I dont care what society thinks of it. Society and the govornment should have absolutely NO say in how a prent raises the child, provided the child is not being abused or neglected.

Tolerance should not be something taught in schools, period. Tolerance is a subjective and moral issue relative to whoever views it.

Forcing children to attend classes about tolerance of homosexuals is unconstitutional, period, because it violates the first amendment right of religous freedom. There are many religons that teach homsexuality is an abominible act, and that god hates and punishes homsexuals as a disgrace to nature. Christians, jews, Muslims, all view homosexuality as evil and sick.

it is the right of those parents to pass on their religous beliefs to their kids. The question of those beliefs being right or wrong is not an issue. Whether you agree with their beliefs or not, by law and right of any free society, those parents have every right to teach hate and intolerance to their kids. If those children should go out and beat up a gay kid, thats a totally different ball game. That crosses into practice and violation of another persons right to not be physically assaulted. If a kid beats up a gay kid, the kid should be punished by the law. That is where the state has right and authority. The only power the state and society should posses in this case, is the right of enforcing law. NOT dictating morailty or tolerance. Thats a personal, religous, and cultural issue.

Thus, children should NOT be forced to attend a class on tolerance. It should be entirely optional. If a parent decides they dont want their kids in that class, then they should not be required to attend this class.

Just like no one has a right to force homosexuals to be straight or christian, or jail them for being gay, gays have no right to force other people to tolerate them. The ACLU was right in making that school allow gay students to have their own meetings, but has overstepped its bounds in forcing straight kids to go through tolerance indoctrination.

Nice how Ed, in his neverending quest in support of theocracy, tries to slip in a petition about banning the ten commandments from the courthouse. Now, ED< what do the ten commandments have to do with gay tolerance classes?

Not only do I not plan to sign that petition, but I send in my letter of support to the ACLU for sucessfully winning a case to remove the superstitons of some outdated backwards religon from public grounds using public money. the ACLU was 100% right to have the ten commandments removed, as there was no good served by the things.

If the ACLU would spend more time keeping the boot down on religous nuts and the "moral majority" instead of trying to do the same thing the religous nuts tyr and do, id actually be more supportive of them.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger

No, it is the state forcing a film on my children that teaches that sin is acceptable and morally OK in this country.


Really? From what I've read it's teaching tolerance with homosexuals, not the perks of being gay. You are acting like if children see this video they will start having homosexual tendencies.


Originally posted by edsinger
Actually it confuses the # out of me to see the ACLU take up for Christians when they do, but it is very RARE.


Oh you poor Christians
Spreading your intolerance around the world in Jesus' name. (Thank God, a lot of christians know better)


Originally posted by edsingerSo teaching morals decided by the state is ok?


Hmm...since when did tolerance for others go against Christianity?


edsinger
As a Christian it is our faith that tells us to make the offenders aware of their sin, not kill them, or discriminate against them. Love them and teach them them the Good News. They can be forgieven and change the life of sin in which they live.


LOL! Yes Ed...whenever I read one of your posts I am overcome with love and understanding.



Notice the "were", that means that people can change their hearts!






So we are to ignore our Lord's teachings for the sake of tolerance? The Church at Ephesus was being told that not accepting or tolerating sin is pleasing in Gods eyes. But notice it does not say 'stone' them or kill them.


These tapes aren't being aired in Sunday schools...
Please take all your Bible gobbledygook and keep it where it belongs
While you are at it...please stop using Jesus to promote bigotry kthx!

Also, ever wonder why these tapes may be needed? Ever hear about gay hate crimes? What is your bright idea in trying to solve this problem? Instilling in your own children that homosexuality is perverted and evil? Some of you people in this thread really make me sad...




[edit on 11/28/2004 by Lecky]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by parrhesia
That first article you linked....

It seem to be associating HIV/AIDS with homosexuality; as if it doesn't happen to heterosexuals. That's hardly the case,

I have a survey which shows HIV cases are rising among gays more than they are with straight people! washingtontimes.com...
sorry that this is beside the point of this thread!

[edit on 28-11-2004 by IAF101]


Maybe so, I'll look at the link in a moment... but it's really misleading to represent HIV/AIDS as infections that ravage gays only, which was the impression I got from the article. It seemed to imply that if you're gay, and have gay sex, you'll die of AIDS.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by parrhesia

Maybe so, I'll look at the link in a moment... but it's really misleading to represent HIV/AIDS as infections that ravage gays only, which was the impression I got from the article. It seemed to imply that if you're gay, and have gay sex, you'll die of AIDS.



I agree with you just two days ago it was a documentary on how our elderly in care homes with more freedom to exercise their sexual needs are getting an increased of HIV positive among their own.

Because most elderly think that at their age they don't need protection.

The article is misleading.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
I have a survey which shows HIV cases are rising among gays more than they are with straight people! washingtontimes.com...
sorry that this is beside the point of this thread!


Not so fast.


The highest-risk group is men who have sex with men, representing 42 percent of new HIV cases. Men and women infected through heterosexual relations are the second-highest risk group, accounting for 33 percent of new HIV cases. Intravenous drug users are third, comprising 25 percent of new cases.


Gay men are the highest risk group, yet heterosexual men and women account for 33% of new cases... only 9% difference... factor in drug users... at 25% of new cases... 58% of new cases are either non-sexual, or through heterosexual intercourse... Yet, the article portrays AIDS as a homosexual disease...




posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Lecky
Really? From what I've read it's teaching tolerance with homosexuals, not the perks of being gay. You are acting like if children see this video they will start having homosexual tendencies.


I am not saying the film will turn my children at all. The film teaches that homosexuality is OK and acceptable. It is not, not that I can legislate this but i do not want the school teaching my kids that this behavior is acceptable either.




Originally posted by Lecky
Oh you poor Christians
Spreading your intolerance around the world in Jesus' name. (Thank God, a lot of christians know better)


Did you even read the quote? I guess not. Christ does not teach tolerance of sin anywhere! Most Christians don't want to rock the boat so keep quiet. You do not understand what the Bible teaches at all.



Originally posted by Lecky
Hmm...since when did tolerance for others go against Christianity?


Never does it say that tolerance of sin is acceptable as the quote stated, he tells us to point out the sin so the sinner can repent of it.



Originally posted by LeckyLOL! Yes Ed...whenever I read one of your posts I am overcome with love and understanding.



Good, I am glad you like them



Notice the "were", that means that people can change their hearts!


Guess you missed that one also. Were is past tense, read just above that OK?




Originally posted by LeckyThese tapes aren't being aired in Sunday schools...Please take all your Bible gobbledygook and keep it where it belongs
While you are at it...please stop using Jesus to promote bigotry kthx!


So take your humanist agenda out of my school then or allow me to spend my tax dollars as I see fit and on schools that do not teach ungodly things as acceptable.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 04:57 PM
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while I agree that tolerance towards all, be it towards homosexuals, atheists and yes, even texans, is a worthwhile goal, the methods that the ACLU are trying to employ border on fascism. You can't force someone to be tolerant. All that is going to do is to push their bigotry to even greater heights. All you can do is try to educate people OF THEIR OWN VOLITION, not of yours.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:03 PM
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What I find interesting about the argument that homosexuality is "not normal" is:

1) What's normal? What the majority does and you do not. In that sense, homosexuality is a minority phenomenon, so it isn't normal. Is it natural? Well, I can tell you this - most people I've talked to say that homosexuals will often contemplate suicide rather than "come out of the closet". It's never an easy choice to make - you risk losing contact with your parents and some friends, and in some cases have your career put in jeopardy. So if it's a choice, it's a pretty masochistic one.

2) In a way, those who frown on homosexuality from a moral stance would prefer that these people suffer in silence instead of living the way they feel compelled to live. Well... I don't believe in that "repentance" and "valley of tears" crap, God didn't put us on this earth to suffer. If He did, then he's a tormentor.

3) Some of the homosexual friends I have are among the most decent people I know. If it takes school education - especially in the public system my taxes pay for here in Canada - to protect those people from arrogant, ignorant bullies who hide behind "morality", then I'm all for it.

4) In any case, I prefer that my kids (when I have some) be exposed to MORE ideas then less. School is supposed to open minds, not close them.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:04 PM
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Hey Edsinger...

How do you feel about gay hate crimes? Does it even bother you? If you would remove your head from whitey christian lala land for one second you would see that it's a rising problem...

You totally miss the whole point on why these tapes are being shown in the first place...

HateCrime.org





[edit on 11/28/2004 by Lecky]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by Lecky
Hey Edsinger...
How do you feel about gay hate crimes? Does it even bother you? If you would remove your head from whitey christian lala land for one second you would see that it's a rising epidemic...

You totally miss the whole point on why these tapes are being aired in the first place.


I deplore hate crimes against homosexuals, Jews, Muslims, or any other. As a matter of fact the laws were already on the books against assault.

As for the hate crimes against gays just because they are gay, the perpetrators should be help accountable by the law. So if someone just beats the hell out of someone because they choose to worship a tree, should the perpetrator get any worse treatment?

I do not condone these type of acts not more than I can condone abortion.


As for the insult to my race, do you feel that you have accomplished what you intended?

If you want to know why the crimes are more numerous, I have some theories. By forcing this lifestyle on the public and attempting to force people to accept this behavior as normal you are going to get some people angry. It doesn't make it right by any means but its a fact.

It is almost becoming hip to be gay in places. I live in California and they want minority status which is wrong. It is not a race or ethnicity, it is a behavior.

Would you grant the same to pedophiles?

[edit on 28-11-2004 by edsinger]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Otts
1) What's normal? What the majority does and you do not. In that sense, homosexuality is a minority phenomenon, so it isn't normal. Is it natural? Well, I can tell you this - most people I've talked to say that homosexuals will often contemplate suicide rather than "come out of the closet". It's never an easy choice to make - you risk losing contact with your parents and some friends, and in some cases have your career put in jeopardy. So if it's a choice, it's a pretty masochistic one.


Good point. According to the definition of normal (ie more than 50% of people fall into a certain category), christianity is NOT normal, since there are less than 3 billion christians in the world. Neither is being white or male, since there are less than 3 billion whites and males in the world. starting to see a pattern?



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:24 PM
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Tolerance is something you learn at home and by interacting with a wide range of different people you meet in life, from which you form your opinions. You do not learn it from one of these crap school movies.

These people have to deal with the fact that there's always going to be arseholes around, and no amount of films or preaching is going to change that. I imagine most people would fall asleep watching it anyway, they're normally not very good these type of films.


If the institution itself would like to show such a film, and like sex education vids e.t.c. it's voluntary as to whether someone in the institution should view it then fine, but to actually force it onto someone is plain retarded.

There's always going to be idiots, it's in there nature. Deal with it...



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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Reading through this thread, what makes me laugh is the claim some have to "unbiased" views. Especially when to back up this "unbiased" view, they send me to a link where the two books advertised are respectively pro-Reagan and anti-Kerry.

Everybody's biased. Everybody has an agenda.





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