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posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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IAF101 you seem to be quite sure that being gay is a choice.

Now, I'm straight, and I don't ever recall having to choose to be straight. I know I couldn't now change my mind and choose to be gay. My mind simply isn't wired that way. Are you suggesting that you think you could at any time choose to turn gay?

(I don't mean physically, I mean emotionally, could you suddenly decide to love another man in the same way you love your wife or girlfriend?)

Really, I don't know why so many straight men seem to think they know more about being gay than gay men. I have no idea how these guys ended up gay. Most of them seem to say that they were always like that and it wasn't a choice. That seems to fit well, I don't recall choosing straightness either. Why would so many straight people assume that they know more about being gay than gay people do? Isn't that in itself very ignorant?




posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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Schools force students to learn certain subjects, to play sports, to take sex-ed. Schools force children to do all sorts of things, so why get your panties in a bunch because they should be teaching the children tolerance?

If you want to send your kids to a private school that teaches your values, that's a different story.

But this is a public school who will teach what the government deems necessary.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Mynaeris
Not all people are gay or black or this or that, but tolerance to them should be taught? But don't bring religion to school? What weirdness. Teach an understanding of the basic religious precepts to children.

They aren't taught to be black or taught to be gay, they are taught to tolerate others who are those things. Just as they are taught to tolerate others of different religions.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:38 PM
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Jees,

This goes to show why you need tolerance training. It used to be that the christians taught tolerance, did that change? I do have to agree, the PTA should review films and subject matter before it is used in the classroom, that would be a Democratic way of handling things. The "president" mandated reuniting the country, that was a mistake, it has actualy increased the division. Democrats blow him off as a boob and Republicans just don't listen to him either. And looking at the berating and anger running here, it just shows that some of you could have used some of these tolerance classes. I remember growing up in a suburban township where the whites were mostly republican and the blacks were mostly democrats and we basicly voted on racial lines, this still exists today, look at how white the RNC 2004 was! This I later found was just rediculous and totaly in-American and changed the way I think. At the time we were taught not to descriminated for color but homosexuality was not evem discussed. We knew about it, but just avoided the subject and stayed away from people who were. It seems that the neocons are always finding a new "stereotype" to hate. We just don't need anymore generations of haters.
The other issue is hypocracy, there are people sit in church, with a little halo on their head listening the the preacher talking about the "sins of alcohole", then they start trying to ban alcohole from certain places and how bad it is. The next day you hear them with a different group talking about the next big game and the kind of beer they will have or the number of chicks they saw in tight teeshirts at the last Nascar event. As for Roy Moore and his little stone tablets in a public courthouse, he DID not get premission to express his religious view in the state courts. But because there was a public outcry from a group of people over it's removal, a group got together and set up a display with different views of religious law. This was a good democratic way of handling the situation and the majority of citizens aggree with the new display, but a few are still fighting it.

School already teach social studies, this was the course already required by law and should be used to show different religions, ethics, races and issues with gender tolorance but not sex-ed.

Deny Ignorance of Learn all social issues before you judge people. Let people do what they want to themselves, God will sort them out when the time comes.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Myna eris
Marga: I am confused? I thought you taught Spanish?

[edit on 28-11-2004 by Myna eris]


Yes, but when films are shown about certain topics, they do an assembly, we take the children and then when we go back to the rooms we have to answer to certain questions following the guide lines of the school rules for that particular subject, we are warn as what to said or not about the particular subject but at the same time we encourage the students to talk about what they just saw and what they think about it, we are not by any means to coerce students into changing values.

And by the way my son was on Ritalin for 3 years and until now I regret having my son go through that.

When the school fail to recognized his problem I had to take upon myself to have him analyzed by a Physiologist, to see what the real problem was, and he was taken of the Ritalin, it was more of a "tolerance" than behavior, he was targeted for being Spanish and his mood and school work changed drastically.

At the time he was only one of 4 Spanish students at his school.



[edit on 28-11-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Kano

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Not all people are gay or black or this or that, but tolerance to them should be taught? But don't bring religion to school? What weirdness. Teach an understanding of the basic religious precepts to children.

They aren't taught to be black or taught to be gay, they are taught to tolerate others who are those things. Just as they are taught to tolerate others of different religions.



They have compulsory films on religious tolerance? Never heard of those at any school near me. Maybe in Australia?



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by MynaerisThey have compulsory films on religious tolerance? Never heard of those at any school near me. Maybe in Australia?


They do. Watch the news reports for shrieks and screams about the "school system teaching Islamic ways." There's lots of that.

All they're trying to do is demystify another religion, but it's greeted with a lot of hysteria and anger every time they try.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by jupiter869
SERIOUSLY ONLY PLEASE. I would like to know why you wouldnt want your child to see a film about being tolerant.


I would most likely let my kid choose, because I trust his judgment. If he said no, then it would be no. Living with a parent that thinks almost anything taught outside of math, science, English, etc, is worthless and shouldn't be a place for those kinds of things.

We need to re-introduce the parent into the school system. Period.


Is it because you want to buck ACLU for forcing it down your throats?


In this case, I think it would be a violation of rights to force students to do anything.

Real Story: When I was in 10th grade, ages ago, we were asked to read a book about the holocaust by Elie Wiesel. I had been to, and had learned entirely too much about the concentration camps between 2nd and 4th grade while I lived in Germany. I told my parents this, and they agreed. We went to the school and spoke to the teacher, she assigned me another book, and I did that instead.

I have since, gone back and read the book, mainly because I read a lot. It is a valuable book, with a good purpose. I just wasn't ready to get back into it at the time.

Let the kids and parents decide what is best for their education.


or is it because you dont believe teaching tolerance is a good thing?
Or is this something deep down you are afraid of?


Tolerance is a good thing, but making something in the name of tolerance is not indicative any social of educational merit. You'd really have to take it on a case by case basis. I say let the parents see it, and if it is worth while, then let them vote. Or even choose on a child by child basis.


Also, have you as a child, been taught to hate? Is that why you teaching your child the same thing? Seriously, I would like to know.


Not at all. My father is really the person I learned most from, and he is the personification of rock solid fairness. We talk about things with them, like how people don't look like Magazines...

Anyway, I just don't think the ACLU can mandate a thing like that, and override the people legally responsible for their care.

Parenting used to be a big deal, I think it should be again. But we must allow them to do it.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by MynaerisThey have compulsory films on religious tolerance? Never heard of those at any school near me. Maybe in Australia?


They do. Watch the news reports for shrieks and screams about the "school system teaching Islamic ways." There's lots of that.

All they're trying to do is demystify another religion, but it's greeted with a lot of hysteria and anger every time they try.


Never heard of a compulsory demystifying christianity, or Buddhism, or Hinduism, or Wicca movies being shown at schools. These are no-nos. Popular causes and pop psychology are the lessons of the day.
20% of school going youth are currently on medication and nobody screams and tries to put a stop to it? How about an anti-ritalin movie.

truly the funniest part of this thread is that nobody here has actually seen this video, but everybody (self included) are willing to debate its effects on students.



[edit on 28-11-2004 by Mynaeris]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 12:53 PM
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I had to read 'Introduction to the Quran' when I entered college. There was a national fuss over it. The year was right after 9/11 happened, so everyone thought we should be hating the Muslims instead of learning about them I guess.

[edit on 28-11-2004 by Jamuhn]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Kano
(I don't mean physically, I mean emotionally, could you suddenly decide to love another man in the same way you love your wife or girlfriend?)


Imagine if your wife had a sex change then wouldn't you love her as much as you do now? wouldn't that be same-sex then!
When I refer it as being a choice I mean that the point or moment of realization i.e in school or in college or in university etc.
when you are in school you are very distracted and carried away by all the things that are going on around you, you are impressionable at that age- no doubt in that!- so at that age when you are forced to identify yourself as straight or gay your sense of perception is warped by peer pressure and whats cool.
The point of realization makes a difference because a teenage boy may not be attracted to girls at school and yet maybe attracted to females outside his school. He might interpret his lack of interest for girls at school to be homosexual tendency due to his lack of perspective and may psychologically label himself as Gay and this would affect his actions and inclinations drastically . This is what I bothers me!



[edit on 28-11-2004 by IAF101]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:14 PM
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I linked to that from Prison Planet. That is just stupid. Here they whine about Christians "forcing" their beliefs on people, and look what they're doing!!!


You better believe I'm going to homeschool my son!

Yep, the Antichrist Communist Liars Union....



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4
What is wrong with classes on being tolerant and non-violent towards gay people? Surely it would help to reduce the amount of uneducated bigots?


How about just not harassing *anyone,* period?

I guess they mean it's harassment to call a BEHAVIOR wrong. My son gets upset if I tell him what he's doing is wrong (like throwing toys that can break a window). So that's harassing him if I upset him by correcting him?

Same difference. Homosexuality is a BEHAVIOR, not a physical characteristic such as skin color. Gays HAVE become straight. It's not in the genetics; therefore gays should not be some protected group.

BTW I signed that petition!



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:25 PM
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Wow. I feel like I need to wash my hands after this thread. Several times. I have not been on ATS a long as some here. But this is the first time of ALL the raucus threads all the heated topics, I have been so mad and so disapointed in members. I have been wittness to and in some shamefull cases been a party to ignorance on a variety of topics, but never have I seen the "Deny Ignorance" motto so clearly violated.

Marg and I 99% of the time can only agree that we disagree yet we hold the same view on the topic. The simple fact that a film discussing the need for tolerance and equality for all will not turn your children into homosexuals. Nor would sending your son to a "gay" prom. etc etc.

Despite the cherished belief that same sex parents/partner make "gay" children the statistics shopw that the percentages are the same as hetro couples. Its not a choice for homesexuals nor does "expose" to it create them.

Byrd is right on: If we were talking about two women, there be some sly grins and "thats hot" comments maybe a
. If you have such moral objections to content such as tolerance then perhaps your children would be better educated at HOME or perhaps a private school. But reading the news, you are more likely to be exposed at a religious based school than anywhere else.

[edit on 11/28/04 by FredT]



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:32 PM
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FredT, I hope you know that I don't HATE gays. I'm a Christian.

I just don't like homosexuality, just as I don't like adultery, fornication, bestiality, pedophilia....

The thing is, there is a such thing as absolute truth. People think truth is relative--what's true for you may not be true for someone else, ad nauseum.

The truth is, homosexuality is deviant behavior. It's also a person's CHOICE whether or not to change that behavior. There's no way it can be in the genes--there are cases of identical twins where one's gay and the other's not. Then there are former gays who are now straight.

The bottom line is, people do not want to be told that what they're doing is wrong. They don't want to feel guilty over it. They want someone to stroke their egos and tell them that what they're doing is perfectly fine. And that goes for any sin, not just homosexuality.

I do agree you should not "harass" or bully someone because of their behavior. By harass I mean pick on--and that does NOT include telling them that what they're doing is wrong. I'm talking sticking nasty notes in someone's locker, slashing their tires, harming/killing them, that kind of thing. That's what *I* mean by "harassment."



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Kano


it is brainwashing, forcing them to watch something to instill your ideas or morals, its modifying them to think a certain way, that is brainwashing, schools are to educate not to instill morals or ideas.

your view is so biased you already assume what i think of gays, you miss my point which was that if this is allowed then what next? who elses ideas can be forced on kids the same way as this? if you werent so biased youd see i never even implied it was bad or wrong, i merely said such a video might give other not so well intended groups the same idea.

your bias is clouding your mind into assuming things i never said or implied.

my biggest concern was other ill intended groups using a similar way to push their views on children, not that this video will turn kids gay.

you should be embarrased, not me, you totally missed my point, it is not a schools purpose to train kids on morals, tolerance or any such thing, if we let it become so then where will it end? who will abuse this for negative purposes? you know people will once given an idea to exploit, i said its a good idea BUT good intentions can be and are abused for not so good reasons.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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I also think that in a way gays act like little kids.

Let me give you an example: When one parents disciplines a child, oftentimes the child will run to the OTHER parent. "You know what Mommy/Daddy said to me? They said I was wrong!"

Smart parents will tell that child that they agree with the other parent.

But gays running to the ACLU reminds me of that. "Those mean nasty Christians said that homosexuality is a sin! WAAAHHHHH!"



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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... even though many of the parents are hopping MAD ??

... even though the film--by definition--is going to Pontificate about Top-Down SHOULDSs, OUGHT TOs and MUSTNTs all over the kids ???

... Do you honestly think there is any way the kids will not simply feel condescended to, patronized and insulted by such a heavy-handed approach?

... I wonder if the school district realizes the street war they are egging on by shoveling dogma down peoples' throats.

... Nobody in the West wants to be told what to THINK. Think about it.




posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Amethyst
I also think that in a way gays act like little kids.

Let me give you an example: When one parents disciplines a child, oftentimes the child will run to the OTHER parent. "You know what Mommy/Daddy said to me? They said I was wrong!"

Smart parents will tell that child that they agree with the other parent.

But gays running to the ACLU reminds me of that. "Those mean nasty Christians said that homosexuality is a sin! WAAAHHHHH!"


Wow. I hope you are embarassed by that. I sure would be.

I am amazed at the animosity people have. This is America. The land of the Free. People come here on innertubes for god's sake. Look what they are coming to. A place where people are wholeheartedly against promoting acceptance of people who are different they they are.

Welcome to America. We hate you!

That is your message.

If this was 50 years ago and a school wanted to show a film about tolerance towards african americans, would your reaction be the same? Yes, it absolutely would.

It's a new generation, you're just afraid and disgusted by a whole new group of people.

Who's next? That's what I'd like to know. How long until you start locking muslims our arabic americans in camps?

It seems to me this country is going from a land founded in Freedom to a land grounded in Hatred.

Not white, christian, and straight? Then you can geeeeetttt out.



posted on Nov, 28 2004 @ 02:19 PM
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That one ACLU whackjob, though, did have a good suggestion. Don't like it, homeschool!

That's exactly what I intend to do. Lately every time the schools want tax increases for funding, I've been voting no.
Why should our tax dollars go to fund perversion?





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