Science quiz: Is the Earth's North Magnetic pole a North Magnetic Pole?

originally posted by: verschickter
The red tip IS south because it aligns itself with the field, not attract the poles.
Thread done.

You apparently didn't watch the video on page 2. They put a bar magnet on a table and line up compasses around it. Opposite poles attract and you can see what happens in the video. Your explanation doesn't resolve the discrepancy, but you're right the compasses align themselves with the field, but they do so in the opposite way most people expect as she explains in the video.

Here's the link to where the video was posted:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Arbitrageur
First, I could be wrong by asuming that "aligning " translates to what I wrote but it seems that´s not the definition.
Because when you think of aligning with the magnetic field, you come to that conclusion. Since aligning fields mean just that: NNSS. Now whats right? Does a compas needle align with the field or is the tip attracted? That´s the real question.

I watched the video but (I thought I got a good preview in the box, before).

She says those compasses are south seeking. Somehow confusing because if its a north seeking compass(so are the mayority), the needle of north will of course point to north and thus south to south so you can call it both ways. The real use for north seeking is when you hang the magnet it you normally define the north thus you call the pole "north seeking pole", not "north pole".

So is it aligning with the field (meaning the direction of the field) or is aligning = attracting opposite poles??

originally posted by: verschickter
She says those compasses are south seeking. Somehow confusing because if its a north seeking compass(so are the mayority)

In that statement is the gist of this thread. Most people think the needle of the compass is seeking north, but it's only seeking geographic north. When she says it's south seeking, she's referring to magnetism, not geography, because the Earth's magnetic field isn't relevant in her experiment, as the field of the magnet she is using is many times stronger at such a close distance. So the red tips of the compasses all point to the magnet's south pole, but if you move the compass away from that bar magnet, the red tip will point roughly to the Earth's geographic North, which is actually a magnetic south pole, which we confusingly call the magnetic north pole. Confused yet?

So is it aligning with the field (meaning the direction of the field) or is aligning = attracting oposite poles??

The compass aligning to the magnetic field and opposite poles attract is pretty much the same thing, in 2 dimensions which is all the compass gives us. If you had a three dimensional compass you'd see that depending on where you were on Earth, the Earth's magnetic field isn't always parallel with the surface, as sometimes it comes out of the ground at an angle, especially at higher latitudes. In the past such a device that would tell you the true alignment of the magnetic field was called a dip circle.

Dip circles (also dip needles) are used to measure the angle between the horizon and the Earth's magnetic field (the dip angle). They were used in surveying, mining and prospecting as well as for the demonstration and study of magnetism.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I agree with you except the following:

The compass aligning to the magnetic field and opposite poles attract is pretty much the same thing, in 2 dimensions which is all the compass gives us.

No it´s not the same. The field flows from geo South(magNorth) to geo North(magSouth)
So if we talk about aligning WITH the field the magNorthCompassNeedle would point to magNorth. (NNSS)
The opposite of what is the reallity it seems so technically it does not align with the field but rather the tips are attracted SNSN

ah nevermind goddamned it´s to late for such brain#s you are right all the way. I got way much to confused with that aligning #.
Not my day. You win

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Something interesting from history. Chinese compasses used to point south and was recorded as north. Due to the construction.

The Ancient Chinese compass was made from iron oxide, a mineral ore. Iron oxide is also known as lodestone and magneta. The most popular style of the first Chinese compass used a lodestone (which automatically points to the south) and a bronze plate. The lodestone was carved into the shape of a spoon.

So when the tip of the spoon, the pointer, pointed the used south as the reference. These compasses go back to 400bce. Just a fun fact from history. Who ok now's how many compasses were badly calibrated. Would have been an interesting adjustment once the needle was balanced and calibrated to as we know it today.

originally posted by: Havick007
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Something interesting from history. Chinese compasses used to point south and was recorded as north. Due to the construction.

The Ancient Chinese compass was made from iron oxide, a mineral ore. Iron oxide is also known as lodestone and magneta. The most popular style of the first Chinese compass used a lodestone (which automatically points to the south) and a bronze plate. The lodestone was carved into the shape of a spoon.

So when the tip of the spoon, the pointer, pointed the used south as the reference. These compasses go back to 400bce. Just a fun fact from history. Who ok now's how many compasses were badly calibrated. Would have been an interesting adjustment once the needle was balanced and calibrated to as we know it today.

You didn't cite a source, but regardless I found other places saying similar things and it sounds like poorly written nonsense, since lodestones do not "automatically point to the south" as whatever crappy source you cited claims.

When the compass aligns, one end is pointing north and one end is pointing south. A professor Susan Silverman who researched and made a replica of that Chinese spoon said something about the bowl pointing north to mimic the big dipper, since as she says two of the stars on the bowl of the big dipper point to the North star, though her perspective may be speculative and I can't find any really good sources but she did do some research to replicate it:

One of the world’s first compasses was a magnetized spoon.

As for why the rudimentary compass was in the shape of a spoon, Silverman says the original diviners may have made the ladle shape to mimic the Big Dipper. In that constellation, the two stars at the end of the “bowl” point to the North Star. And since the spoon’s neck pointed south, that meant its bowl pointed north—just like the Big Dipper. That may be the biggest south pointing spoon of all, still shining in the sky.

Also that compass apparently wasn't used for navigation, so i think to understand the confusion between magnetic north and gegraphic north one needs to look at compasses used for navigation.

a reply to: Arbitrageur


It was just an observation of older divination (I thought navigation) and possibly i-ching techniques and apparatus. I haven't read detailed reports or articles about it, calm down and thanks for correcting me again. I hope I'm not getting on your nerves. Apologies if I am.