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originally posted by: draknoir2
originally posted by: tanka418
Sorry man, but evidence, physical trace, and other kinds as well, is actually abundant, some irrefutable...
Such as?
originally posted by: tanka418
originally posted by: draknoir2
originally posted by: tanka418
Sorry man, but evidence, physical trace, and other kinds as well, is actually abundant, some irrefutable...
Such as?
Go back, read the rest of my post.
And, when you are truly ready to see such evidence, you can start here.
Like I said; it is all around you all the time; you have but to open your eyes, and recognize the world for what it truly is. Again, IF you truly want this evidence you might actually search for it, as I and many others have done.
You do understand that it is not the case; that there is no evidence! Although I do see that you attempt to qualify that "evidence"...to make your statement more "real"...
Sorry man, but evidence, physical trace, and other kinds as well, is actually abundant, some irrefutable...
The problem, and what you are actually referring to, is the fact that this evidence is not in a single location, thus you can not study and understand that evidence.
Ad then of course, there is he typical "debunker's" method; don't go looking for the evidence, and if you stumble upon any; deny it!!
Which, by the way, is much better than using your "racist" knee and just equating ET to "demons".
Very simple logic will show that ET not only exists, and is visiting Earth (probability...math), but is a physical entity, not unlike Terrestrials. ET doesn't live in some imaginary alternate dimension (such things can't exist anyway), and is a "local" being (within 75ly).
Less circumstantial evidence has convicted people of murder in a court of law, even as in this case, no body has been found.
originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: AlienView
If the court analogy were true, we would see court cases where aliens were found responsible for unsolved murders and missing persons.
Yeah I know you don't trust astronauts or the military and believe they faked the Moon Landing also. Next time they go to the moon ask to go along - after all, like alien phenomena, it all may be a hoax; How would you know they landed on the moon unless you went along? Have you ever touched or felt the rocks they brought back - How do you know their real? In fact how do I know you are real? Maybe your an alien trying to cover his tracks by acting like a debunker?
- Clever these aliens, are they not? They just got be more intelligent than most humans
but alien theories, if nothing else are interesting and should not be dismissed as impossible or even improbable.
there have been a whole bunch of disappearances in a National Park which remain in-explainable
originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: AlienView
but alien theories, if nothing else are interesting and should not be dismissed as impossible or even improbable.
Not impossible. Improbability/probability cant be determined until we find an alien. Until then, its only possible.
there have been a whole bunch of disappearances in a National Park which remain in-explainable
No, they are very explainable since there are about 5000 ways to go missing in a National Park.
originally posted by: LogicalRazor
originally posted by: sparrowstail
The culture here at ATS is so myopic in their thinking. This argument is like a trout out swimming around. He gets caught by a fisherman. Its a weird experience for the trout who was just going after some lunch in a worm or fly. Then ripped from his watery environment brought on an alien ship, or boat in this case, and returned to join the rest of the school. He tries desperately to explain his experience, and seeing strange beings that pulled him magically from his stream bed. The other fish ridicule him about delusional thoughts and hallucinations and no proof. The caught fish holds true to his word that their are in fact fishermen out there observing and harvesting fish unbeknownst to the rest of the school. They say prove it, show me a fisherman, no proof for the troutskies. Fishermen like aliens operate outside of the fishes and our field of perceptional scope or view. Keeping empirical proof from humanity is like us child proofing our home.
Except the major difference here is that...
A) We are not fish.
B) We have enough amateurs and scientists alike equipped with technology that is monitoring the skies. Enough that we should have caught an actual real sighting of something extraterrestrial by now....it hasn't happened.
C) University students taking astrophysics or astronomy have access to high powered telescopes and equipment that they can point anywhere in the sky. Guess what? None of them have seen anything unexplainable either.
D) SETI? Nope. They haven't seen anything strange since the "WOW!" signal.
Its always the homeless, assbackward hicks, the uneducated and the new age freaks that claim to see ET's. Everything else has been either misidentification, unidentified craft or natural phenomenon. No one really denies the possibility of extra terrestrial life...there's just no proof of it yet. Certainly not any visiting earth.
originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
One part of your problem is the fact that you have formed your own personal belief that alien life exists. You use that belief to help further support or give credibility to this evidence. And it's a belief that is void of any actual evidence in itself! So basically, you believe this evidence, because you believe aliens already exist. Basing a belief in yet another belief. Nothing based in facts.
Until YOUR expectations become something that could be considered "reasonable"; you'll not see what you want. Your expectations of "evidence" is / has become unreasonable...this is clearly evidenced by your attitudes toward the "differences" between what is used in your pseudo-scientific pursuit of ET, and what you would be likely to accept in a murder trial.
Your problem is that you have no experiential base / foundation.
What I believe, think, etc. is based on 67 years of personal experience, logic, and education. I've been a Computer scientist / Electrical Engineer for over 40 years; and have contributed more to this society than most. However, what this society has given me is far more important; it is the ability to understand, and extend that understanding into the unknown.
Sorry man, but, much of my experience with the phenomenon of "Extraterrestrials" is First Hand...now about that "proof"...
You have exhibited a general mis-understanding of "what" is, and is not useful / acceptable data, perhaps even to misunderstand "what" constitutes data in the first place. For instance; it is perfectly acceptable, scientifically, to accept probabilities...though, I think, for now, we'll just leave that where it is, and just say..."all things are only probabilities.
Ever view the Earth from 100, 000km?
Tell me..."IF" I found a DNA sample that I could not prove was from, or originated on Earth...what would it be?
originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
Wrong. As I explained, anything in a courtroom situation can be used because the bottom line foundational basis is already there. Human beings exist- as a fact. Further, the accused incidents exist as in facts. Murders happen- as a fact, robberies happen- as a fact, automobile accidents happen- as a fact, etc. The very basis of every single court case, the existence of human beings, is in no way comparable to the existence of extraterrestrials. We have absolutely nothing in the way of 100% factual evidence that alien beings exist- Period. Therefore, you can't relate any courtroom situation to a situation with aliens. It's ridiculous.
More poor attempts at trying to show it's the believers that approach this phenomenon scientifically, while everyone else uses pseudo-science,
Make it seem more factual and real by doing so? I don't know what the silly purpose is. Meanwhile, a majority of the scientific community still doesn't believe extraterrestrails have visited Earth, as in fact. No matter how many times you say it, or how you feel about it, it doesn't make it anymore of a fact.
Your credentials are all fine and dandy, but does nothing in itself to help further explain anything involving this phenomenon as far as facts go. It's still only your personal belief at this point. You continue to speak with authority on this subject, but have yet to show any facts. Your posts are also peppered with riddles like you have insider knowledge and absolute answers, but follow it up with nothing. I'll point out two in this post alone:
-"Ever view Earth from 100,000km?"
-"...much of my experience with the phenomenon of "Extraterrestrials" is First Hand.
Am I supposed to naively accept those two comments alone on your word as you knowing something? Or, am I to demand evidence of what you're speaking of? It's the latter, because I'm not some weak-minded fool that 'blindly' accepts a story or claim of alien visitation, without any actual verifiable evidence of that claim.
So, instead of going around inferring this and that- I give you the opportunity right now to provide me and this forum with evidence of just one of your assertions- 'first-hand experience of extraterrestrials'
originally posted by: WolfSong13
Ok so scientifically speaking there are literally billions of planets that have the possibility to support life. The universe is ever expanding. New stars and planets are created all the time. Life could be beginning light years away. Out of the billions of planets that could support life there is at least one that has life living on it. Proof of this is Earth. We are just one planet that beat the odds and started living. Now if one could do there is literally nothing stopping the other life supportable planets from starting up either, just time.
Also a theory I have personally is that life may not be defined the same here as it may be in other planets, due to different conditions. Proof of this is the extremophiles that live in what we thought were "inhospitable" places. We also think that many planets are "inhospitable", but I think the problem is that our available technology is so minute that we just can't see the extremophiles on other planets or even begun to explore the livable planets. Time again is the factor that slows us down.Now if Earth is a relatively new planet think of all the older planets that could support life that have been around way longer than us. If they were kickstarted before us that would mean that those civilizations are way ahead of us (or could be, there histories and discoveries could be completely different from ours). We just don't have the technology to see these things yet.
For years humans have thought that things didn't exist but in fact actually do just in extremely remote areas in small numbers. For example the Coelacanth, which thought to go extinct in the Cretaceous era but were rediscovered in the Indian Ocean in the 1900's. If we mathematically ratio the number of Coelacanth, with the size of the Earth factoring the chances of it being a continuous species 400 million years old and the technology it takes to study the rare creatures. Now compare that to the number of livable planets, with the size of the universe, factor in the "kickstart" to make a living species, and the technology that we have and don't have. The probability that there is life in the universe other than our own is literally immense and growing every day as Time passes, which by the way isn't the same on every planet. So it's not as much as that we need proof, we just need to open our eyes to the probability that we are not alone.
And if some how a civilization progressed to the point to travel light years and find another planet (us) I would think, just like humans do, they would study us first in what ever way that may be to whatever that (alien) scientist would see fit and then observe the creatures (us) in a way we wouldn't notice so that we would continue our daily routines. The sightings of our observers would be similar to a bear noticing a hunter for the first time of course we would flip out and not understand whats going on. All we would know is that it's strange and possibly dangerous and be extremely defensive towards it. I think people need to look at things in a different perspective. If aliens have such advanced technology then compared to them we are uncivilized animals. They would treat us like we treat Coelacanths or bears or any other animal we like to study. And we would behave like coelacanths or bears or any animal we study.
To finish, a bear can only understand humans if it meets a human, otherwise it just continues its daily life. In one way we need proof to know what we are up against, but the proof is in the probability and the science of nature. Right now all we have are rumors, which is only the scent of what may be around to a bear.
What you fail to understand is that the handling of evidence, testimony, etc. is already defined by court room protocols. It is the implementation of these protocols that is where you fail.
Further; you do not need "100% factual" evidence of ET, you only need a sufficiently high probability...
..besides, that probability is all you're ever going to get.
Cute! It is after "personal" experience, now isn't it?
But it actually appears that you completely miss any sort of understanding of "personal experience"...for instance; personal experience is really all any of us have as far as understanding, education, and a whole plethora of other cognitive process. Personal experience is our (each of us) whole base for comprehension of the Universe; thus it is the only thing upon which we should even try to base any intelligent pursuit. You are limiting yourself to a very small segment of our experiential envelope, and expect answers from "outside" somehow...
You should pursue Metaphysics for a while to help round out your experiential base.
Yet, this seems to be rather common with Terrestrials; the rigid adherence to an arbitrarily small segment of the available data. One can only wonder; why you do this to yourselves.
Your turn; please answer this...
"IF" I found a DNA sample that I could not prove was from, or originated on Earth...what would it be?
I don't have enough training and study in DNA analysis to even comment on what would be acceptable or not in regards to alien DNA. That would be up to it being studied by a group of unbiased forensic scientists with no preformed belief or alien objective.
Research findings
...continues work of DNA Nobel Prize Winner Dr. Francis Crick
Collaborative research from a gathering of exo-scientists postulate that there are genes from over 20 extraterrestrials civilizations in Human DNA. These exo-scientists have continued the work of Nobel Prize winner Dr. Frances Crick, and other scholars in this area. Current findings are consistent with reports of Professor Sam Chang, who discreetly released information on his own apparent findings, in association with the Human Genome Project.
Scientists are beginning to complain more and more about political attempts to compromise the integrity of their important work for humanity. The discreet releasing of findings, is one apparent way in which scientists try to cope with scientific peer pressures to conform to prevailing political pressures.
Details of findings have been published in part, by Dr. Michael Salla, who is a learned scholar on extraterrestrial research. Exo-scientists and other researchers base their findings, in part, on carefully collecting data, which includes well corroborated documented observations by contactees and "whistleblowers", as well as other documentation.
These verified reliable sources have come into contact with representatives of non-Earth Human civilizations living in human populations at-large, and also in official capacities.
Francis Crick and partner, James Watson,
startled the academic world in 1953 when they deciphered the structure of the DNA molecule.
"Exo-science" is the study of extraterrestrial phenomenon. "Exo-science" is further associated with "exopolitics" which embraces the need for humanity to have open contacts with Extraterrestrials on a representative democratic basis, that respects Earth's sovereignty.
In today's "global economy" an "official science" which denies the analytical study of spiritual phenomena, as a legitimate context for understanding human reality, has been created over time. The "science" which is legitimated by institutions that are closely linked to this "global economy", tends to seek to analyze only certain aspects of 'materiality'.
Priorised subjects by this "official science" are limited to areas which complement the agenda of constituencies of individuals who seek to manipulate the "recognized" body of human knowledge for power and control. That scientific priorisation context, has notably sought to exclude extraterrestrial relationships to humanity, in order to keep humanity ignorant of its apparent potential "locked" heritage within its own DNA.
Dr. Francis Crick concluded Extraterrestrial origins in the Human Genome,
in relation to his well renown DNA research.
Indeed, efforts to seek a scientific context for the appreciation of spiritual phenomena, has also been frowned upon by the elites of institutionalized religions, which like "official science", seek to control humanity within systems of accepted doctrine and dogma.
Collaborative exo-scientific research efforts inspired by Dr. Michael Salla, suggest that within the estimated over 20 types of extraterrestrial genes within human DNA, lies psycho-kinetic abilities associated with the genetic memories of ancient extraterrestrial races. These apparent psycho-kinetic abilities are associated with the focusing of the creative collective consciousness of being in the universe.
These psycho-kinetic abilities, for example, could be viewed to manifest from time to time, when human beings in the process of trying to save another life, for example, have been recorded as executing, "great physical and other acts" which seem to go beyond the realm of understanding by "official science".
The recorded healing abilities which individuals, for example, in aboriginal communities across the world have demonstrated in relation to their spirituality, which had also been recorded of Jesus, could be viewed to be associated with accessing this DNA "memory".
"Official science" which seeks to complement the interests of various companies who seek to commercially profit from drugs and other therapies, has apparently sought to deny the awesome potentials of humanity for an elevated quality-of-living, by accessing an apparent ET DNA memory.
Does Earth represent a genetic frontier, to some Extraterrestrials?
There have been eyewitness accounts globally, including the broadcasted video footage of professional broadcasters, by millions of people of apparent extraterrestrial spacecraft. Exo-scientists indicate that this is because,
"these Extraterrestrials have sought to observe, or intervene on Earth, as a result of human beings having the genetic footprints of their ancient forbearers."
It is important to note that exo-scientists do not claim that all extraterrestrials observed by humanity, do so because of a genetic association with humanity, although "genetics" is a reported prime motivation.
Earth, therefore, appears to represent a "strategic genetic frontier", between scientifically ascertained extraterrestrials who "seeded" Earth, and other extraterrestrials with varying genetic agendas.
Further visible indications of apparent Extraterrestrial contact in Human DNA
The existence of diverse ethno-racial communities of humanity on Earth, perhaps, provides a further visible appearance of extraterrestrial (E.T.) 'genetic communities'. African tribes, including the Dogon, notably, cite evidence of having origins from races of "supernatural creatures that came down from the sky."