The Cymry or the true history of Britain.

By the way, on the subject of the facepalmingly hilarious by play between urbanghost and Gallowglaich, I have to say that this is rather the stupidest use of both your time, each trying to out old school the other. It is like watching MC Hammer and Will Smith have a stare down contest.

I get it... As the kids might say, we are all OG up in here and all that other street nonsense. Now, is there any chance that this could become a learning experience, rather than a bitching experience? I have little bits of Scots, Irish, Welsh, and a whole bunch of good old English muck in me, and as such, I hate watching people fight over the borders between those parts. It is like my arm having a fight with my kidney!

a reply to: urbanghost

Good thread op, I have found UK history to be interesting. There's a lot that went on there in ancient times that's hardly common knowledge. I find it especially interesting how the subsequent invasions of the isles worked out, from the first peoples settled before 2,000BC and the waves after and the wars and integration of tribes. I wish I knew more about it, I wish more was documented.

The story of Wales could be more isolated from the history that I had read about but back then borders weren't the same or respected in the same way as they are now.

originally posted by: urbanghost
a reply to: Gallowglaich
The Irish have never been isolated, show me the evidence that proves they have.
I am not disputing anything about Ireland. The Irish are not on the island of Britain and the Welsh are not on Ireland, so it is a bit irrelevant anyway. I am talking about where the Welsh were not the Irish.
Welsh Dna 1
welsh dna 2

I said the Irish were more isolated than the Welsh.

What you wrote gave me the impression that you're trying to claim the Welsh are more native to the British Isles than the Scottish or Irish, which is not true.

a reply to: TrueBrit
I couldn't agree more. But this is the type of reaction you get when you try to say anything about the welsh. Wait until I start on longbows.
Onward and upward as they say

Well, try posting about the Scottish, that will get the English panties in a twist even more, particularly if you talk about the claymores used on English necks.

I posted this in another thread but I think it is relevant to what I am saying. Not sure if this is allowed, if not I will gladly delete it.

According to the welsh legends, Britain was established by a guy called Hugh Gadarn or Hugh the Mighty, he survived a massive flood that devastated the world. He found a few other survivors and they became the first inhabitants of Britain. The land before they got there was called Glas Merddin, The Island of Green Hills. With Hugh was someone called Aedd Mawr, The Great and his son Prydain. Prydain gave his name to the new country, Ynys Prydain, The Isle of Prydain. Another person called Dyfnwal Moelmud arose in this land and became the great legislator for all the tribes and the whole of the country.
Hugh Gadarn, Prydain and Dyfnwal Moelmud, were called the Three Pillars of the tribes of the Cymry.
The Three Pillars recognised three tribes who were honest in this land. The first were the Cymry, the original and first tribe. The second were the Lloegrwys, they came from Gwaswyn, or Gascony, in Gaul, they were descended from the Cymry. The third and last were the Brythons, from the land of Llydaw, or Brittany, and they were also descended from the Cymry.
The picts were a tribe from the north of Ireland, they were constantly at war with the other Irish tribes. In the 4th century they started coming into Britain on raids and attacking the Romans. In 369, Theodosius the roman general fought and defeated them in a great battle and drove them to the north of Britain.
After the Romans were routed from the country the picts became the number one foe of the Cymric and they had many wars and the Cymric easily defeated them, but once the Saxons came it was harder for the Cymric to defend themselves. They asked the Romans who they had driven from their lands to help and at first they helped, driving the picts back north and holding the Saxons at bay. But later when asked to help again the Romans had too much trouble at home and left the Britons to their ultimate fate.
This is what the Welsh legends when translated properly have to say about the history of Britain.

The Romans had to build a wall to keep the Picts out. So they were definitely the fiercest people on the island.

Also, Picts were never "driven north" by Romans. They already lived in the north and had been living there for centuries already. Scotland was never uninhabited. In fact, the Romans were driven south by them when they tried to pass into the Highlands, so the Romans built Hadrians Wall to keep them out.

Scotland is the only country in the British Isles that has never been conquered.

a reply to: Gallowglaich
I am only saying what the Welsh manuscripts say. Show me some other written evidence saying different, instead of just disputing everything off hand.
There is a wall across Wales as well. Its called Offa's Dyke. Its about 150 miles in length and reaches 65 feet in height, twice the length of Hadrians Wall.

originally posted by: urbanghost
a reply to: Gallowglaich
I am only saying what the Welsh manuscripts say. Show me some other written evidence saying different, instead of just disputing everything off hand.
There is a wall across Wales as well. Its called Offa's Dyke. Its about 150 miles in length and reaches 65 feet in height, twice the length of Hadrians Wall.

What I'm saying is just common knowledge that everyone with a shred of understanding about British history knows. There have been indigenous people living in the area of modern Scotland since the upper Paleolithic. Romans never "drove them North".

Maybe you mistranslated.

Also, Offa's Dyke was built BY the Welsh to keep their enemies out. They built it to protect themselves. The Romans built Hadrian's wall to protect themselves from the Picts, the only people on the island they couldn't conquer.

a reply to: urbanghost

awesome

a reply to: Gallowglaich
In my very first post I said and I quote "After studying the culture and history of my country, Wales, for over 30 years, I have come to the conclusion that mainstream archaeology in the UK is suppressing the true history of this country." and "So this is my attempt to unravel the lies fed to us by the archaeologists of Britain." Do you think I am just making this up? Everything I have wrote here can be found in the history books. Like I said show me some evidence that says different. If it is common knowledge like you say you should have no problem. Just randomly saying that's not true and disputing everything is not proving anything, it just your opinion and only means something to you. Give me a link to a webpage, an archaeological report, even a Wikipedia page if you have to, just give me something. Thats the way it works. I write something I have found, you come up with some other evidence disputing it, I look at it then I say but I have something else that disputes what you say, then you go away tip tapping on your keyboard until you find something else. This goes on until one of us has nothing else, then you usually find the truth. If after all that it turns out that some of what I have found out is not correct, then I will gladly change it to what is correct.
As for Offa's Dyke, the clue is in the name. Try looking it up.
At this time you have proven nothing so what I have written stands. Unless you come carrying gifts of knowledge I will be carrying on with my thread.

a reply to: urbanghost

65 feet high........you sure about that?

a reply to: urbanghost

Hi urbanghost.

The stones you show could be Christian, just not as we are used to thinking about it. The Romans almost certainly didn't bring Christianity to the British Isles. Constantine's conversion is contemporaneous with celtic missionaries like St Ninian in Scotland. This is just one of the issues we have come up against on the 'Pagan Stones' thread. What we think of as pagan, might not really be the case.
Tertullian, a Christian writer from Carthage lived and wrote between 160-220AD.
He wrote that "the parts of Britain which had been inaccessible to the Romans, were subdued to Christ".
So churches were established in Scotland before the time of Tertullian? No wonder St. Ninian was surprised to find that the druids practised a similar religion to him!

What age are your stones dated from? That would give us a good idea of what they are conveying.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

The research I have seen indicates that the Irish are of mainly R1b Y-haplogroup stock and fairly pure . The Cro-Magnons were mainly I-haplogroup and seem to correspond with the modern day Finns. Very interesting. The Welsh are similar to the Irish but the English have a bit more R1a stock from the Germanic Saxons and Vikings.Also the English have picked up some I-haplogroup from the Vikings as well. But the Picts are a mystery as there is not much trace of their language left. Some experts believe that they did not speak a Celtic language at all, and may be the original inhabitants of Britain. It now appears that the Celts originated in Portugal!

Gildas wrote that the country was almost entirely possessed by a Cymric population, where ultimately a powerful Cymric kingdom was formed. On the east coast, from the Tyne to the Esk, settlements of Saxons gradually encroached on the Cymry. Until the year 360 the Roman province extended to the northern wall which crossed the isthmus between the Forth and the Clyde. Barbarian tribes broke into the province, which the Roman authors tell us consisted of the Picts, Scots, and Saxons, and were driven back, but they made incursions from time to time.
Gildas tells us that the Saxons made their descent on the east coast, the Picts from the north, and the Scots from the
west. All texts concur in making Ireland the head-quarters of the latter. Gildas goes on to say that the Picts finally occupied the country up to the southern wall and settled down in the northern regions. The writings of Gildas concur
with the texts written by contemporary Roman and Greek authors.
The barbaric tribes who broke into the province in 360 were driven back by Theodosius in 368, and the province restored to the northern wall. In 383 the title of Imperator was usurped by Maximus who took the Roman troops to Gaul. This is succeeded by the first major incursion by the Picts and Scots, when the Britons asked the Romans for assistance. Stilicho sends a single legion to help and he drove them back and reconstructed the northern wall. Claudian records the defeat of the barbarian tribes, which he names Picts, Scots, and Saxons, the fortifying of the wall, and the recall of the legion in 402.
Then follows the second major incursion by the Picts and Scots, and a second appeal for assistance. This time a larger force is sent, again driving back the barbarians. Then comes the third incursion by the Picts and Scots. Honorius wrote to the cities of Britain telling them they must protect themselves. The Picts settled down in the region north of the wall, the Scots returned to Ireland, soon to reappear and again build settlements on the western sea-board. The Saxons were asked for help, but instead they unite with the Picts to attack the Britons, and finally bring the greater part of the county under their rule in 441.
Even then the Kings of Cambria were still Welsh. In 573 the great battle of Ardderyd was fought between Gwenddolew and on the other side three chieftans, Maelgwn Gwynedd, Rydderch Hael and Aedan, son of Gafran, the most powerful chieftans at that time. Each of these three went on to found a powerful kingdom in Britain. It is written that 80,000 Cymry were engaged in this battle. After winning the battle, Rydderch Hael established himself in Alclyde (Dumbarton), as the first monarch of the kingdom of Cambria (Strathclyde) and Y Gogled (The North). Aedan was made king of Dalriada by St. Columba in the island of lona. Maelgwn Gwynedd became King of Cymru (Wales) and Britain.
The entire literature of Wales testifies to the fact that the Picts belonged to the race of the Gwyddyl, and not to the Cymric race. This is from the triads,
" Three social tribes of the Isle of Britain — the nation of the Kymry, the race of the Lloegrwys and the Brython — and these are said to be descended from the original nation of the Cymry, and to be of the same language and speech. Three refuge-seeking tribes that came to the Isle of Britain — the tribe of Celyddon yn y Gogled, the race of the Gwyddyl that are in Alban, and the men of Galedin. Three invading tribes that came to the Isle of Britain — the Coraniaid, the Gwyddyl Ffichti who came to Alban by the sea of Llychlyn, and the Saeson."

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: urbanghost

What age are your stones dated from? That would give us a good idea of what they are conveying.

That's just it, they are described as early Christian. Even these, the first is described as 8th century?
The next one is supposed to be the base of a cross.
The thing is nearly all the stones were described and dated at the end of the 19th century by amateur archaeologists obsessed with Christianity and with very romanticised ideas about Wales. This is the time when the legends of Arthur were in full swing and the Mabinogion had been translated and romanticised by various "translators".

a reply to: grumpy64
If you look at the marker M269 in R1b Y-haplogroup wales comes out at about 92%, Ireland 85% and cornwall is 78%. R-M222 markers come from the male lines of the Scottish and Irish, showing they are related. R-L159.2 markers show the same. R-L193 is predominant in the rest of Scotland but this marker is under 2000 years old.
Scotlands DNA project found that Scotland has almost 100 different groups of male ancestry from across Europe and further afield and more than 150 different types of female DNA from Europe, Asia and Africa were discovered.

originally posted by: Argyll
a reply to: urbanghost

65 feet high........you sure about that?

Sorry I meant 65 wide

a reply to: urbanghost

I understand your frustration and it is a conveniently forgotten part of the UK history just how persecuted the welsh people were from the time of the norman's onward, there is archeaological evidence that though the Saxons (Remember old vortigen's mistake and hengist and horsa the two Hun named warlord mercenarys he hired) actually had peaceful relations with the welsh for perhaps more than a hundred years before the norman conquest and among the female lineage it turnes out that the english woman are primarily of celtic origin so they were britons which gives most british an equal claim, the prevalence of certain genetic markers could also be down to the fact of the welsh hill tribe's being isolated for many generations but there was definitely roman trade and colonization in wales though maybe they were never pacified and instead the local chieftens made pact's with the roman's.
The last true ancient british blood is actually further north though, but it may share that with some welsh and I talk of the Pict clan's of caledonia whom defeated the roman legion as made famous in the movie the eagle but later were mixed with galicised viking celt's from ireland whom strangely had colonised what is today the lancashire and yorkshire parts of northern england (lancashire was originally part of wales), due to THERE law's braught over with them from denmark and norway only the eldest son could inherit so since they had large familys in the fertile lands they had taken the younger sons settled in ireland but never actually conquered it and a cheiften called brian beru the high king of ireland led a revolt against them (limerik was a viking city) defeating them but by this time half his own men were of mixed viking ancestry (the Mac/Mc clans) descended from that earlier colonisation whom had settled nothern england before taking northern ireland, these half viking also then colonised the pict lands of caledonia and as the Irish were then called Scots we call caledonia Scotland now, it was almost the end of the short dark haired and skinned Pict's but a marriage between a scot prince and a pict princess made it into an integration, So I actually think some scot's would take exception to being denied there place as descendant's of the True most ancient britains whose ancestors the ancestors of the welsh probably drove north long before the age of the druid's.
I see myself as british and regard the whom island and all it's seperatist nations as one nation, my nation as I am in part descended from all of them as well as irish and some true foreigner (jewish and maori), i live in sight of anglesey if I climb the local hill in lancashire and on a clear day the beautiful welsh mountains which are a special and perhaps blessed place are visible as is the isle of man and anglesey and from my angle the menai straight.

The truth is non of us know but it would have been a true sin if the welsh language was lost even if some of the town name's are unpronouncable but among the welsh traditions that face extinction today are the world famous welsh male voice choir's and no one can sing like a welsh man.

You know there were a couple of archeaologists whom lost there credebility when they claimed that they had found the tomb or king arthur in wales, while the dark ages washed over europe many men of learning and much knowledge survived in wales and ireland as well and wales has played a larger part in the history of the west than today is acknowledged because it was called a barbaric nation by the normans whom freely raped the slave woman of there own holding's, most english lord's today are actually norman in origin.

a reply to: urbanghost

This one looks more like a Grey than Jesus

Nope, looks like Jesus to me.

Unless the "Grey" was crucified.