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The Completely Unofficial Ukraine Mud-Pit.

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posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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Given that the mods have ever so wisely decided to close the Russia Invades Ukraine thread for a few minutes to allow those that wish to sling mud (rather than report events) to think through their intent when posting there; I thought this thread might be a good central place to discuss opinions regarding what is currently happening in the Ukraine.

I will start:

1. I am more than ready to see the USA reassert itself as a superpower and tell Russia that they need to pack up and go home.
2. I am not a fan of war and hated what my country did to the M.E. I have not supported them in being there at all. However this is Russia we are talking about.
3. They can thank their lucky stars they released Simon from Vice News as I was about to head over there for some Ruskie blood myself.

Let the trolls invade and the mud-pit overflow!
edit on 24-4-2014 by Mamatus because: Gwammer and speeeeling




posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: Mamatus

Tired of the non-sheeple (or those who claim to be) -trying to convince the masses that Putin is a sweet heart.
Also that the Putes' actions are "cool cause the West pulls that stuff off all the time."

Two wrongs don't make a right, and (imo) the "anti-sheeple" are the sheep with this situation. Putins recklessness puts all of us in danger and I don't find it particularly amusing.

thanks for letting me vent



edit on 24-4-2014 by canucks555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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I would rather see both the US and Russia giving the world some peace and going back go their business. Proxy wars now have a habit of coming back to bite the perpatrators in the butt. I can only hope they all see sense and don't let this escolate into nukes flying



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: canucks555

I could not agree with you more. Putin is far more dangerous than most people realize. Unlike some rock throwing backwoods rebel, Putin seldom does anything without having a long game. The Ukraine is IMO little more than a pawn on the chessboard. The ultimate goal of the game being to Checkmate the opposition. The USA and NATO would be that opposition.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: On the level

That would be ideal, sadly humans are not ideal. I say screw the proxy wars, they are neither fair not manly. IMO if two governments want the same thing (World Dominance) the only way it will happen at humans current state of evolution is through violence. The sad thing is that most of the civilized world does not really feel the effect of a war. So we are doomed to repeat big ones.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: Mamatus
I threw a link up in the live thread to here for ya



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: drivers1492
Thanks, It will hopefully work out as I was really getting tired of wading through the opinions to get to the news quickly. Maybe this spot will attract those that wish to argue the details. once in a while it is kind of fun, but when in a hurry not so much.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:51 PM
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While I see the merit for this thread I don't think it will have the desired effect. The other thread is where the information is at and its that information some want buried.

just an observation.

Either or thank for the effort / idea for this thread.

Apparently in addition to the use of the term Nazi, they have now introduced global Zionist into their argument.

the ironies abound and yet are lost on so many people..
edit on 24-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

We will see, I thought 10th was fairly clear after the review of the thread. I love the debates.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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Russia isn't getting into a military quagmire.

All Russia needs to do is sit back & watch the Kiev junta fall onto its sword.

NO LEADERSHIP + NO HOME SUPPORT + IMF PREDATORY BAILOUT + ENERGY DE-STABILIZATION + WAGES/PENSIONS SLASHED 50% + RIGHT SECTOR = BLEAK OUTLOOK FOR KIEV JUNTA


As I've stated earlier:

Kiev junta just forced the Ukrainians into the final debilitating stages of collapse.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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The strategy is...

America = Bad

Rest of World = Good

Anything not in compliant with above = Attack



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

Yeah..

I always find it amusing when Pro Russians argue their position from the forward deck of the titanic.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
Russia isn't getting into a military quagmire.

All Russia needs to do is sit back & watch the Kiev junta fall onto its sword.

NO LEADERSHIP + NO HOME SUPPORT + IMF PREDATORY BAILOUT + ENERGY DE-STABILIZATION + WAGES/PENSIONS SLASHED 50% + RIGHT SECTOR = BLEAK OUTLOOK FOR KIEV JUNTA


As I've stated earlier:

Kiev junta just forced the Ukrainians into the final debilitating stages of collapse.


Sponsored by Power jam - a wholly owned and operated subsidiary of Vladimir Putin - whose ethics would riase eyebrows in the court of Caligula.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: Mamatus

I hope it will thin things out some. I spend allot of time on my phone lately here and the scrolling is killing me. Unlike many I don't have a stance as to who is right or wrong I'm simply interested in the situation.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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I posted this in that other thread:

For the sake of information, after a quite of digging as you won't find this piece in western MSM, I present you who are the Neo-Nazi figures holding important seats in Ukrainian parliament.

First some background on "Svoboda" party and "Right Sector":


Svoboda ("Freedom") was founded in 1991 as the Social National Party of Ukraine.

The party idolizes Stepan Bandera, whose followers fought on the side of the Nazis during World War II against the Red Army and Ukrainian communist militias.

Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) had direct support from the Germans: Hitler wanted them to police Ukraine after the Germans took it, and the OUN organized volunteer militias that actively participated in the Holocaust.

"The Jews of the Soviet Union," declared the Banderists, "are the most loyal supporters of the Bolshevik Regime and the vanguard of Muscovite imperialism in the Ukraine."

When the Germans took Lvov in the summer of 1941, the Banderists sent a message to Lvov’s Jews in the form of a pamphlet which said: "We will lay your heads at Hitler’s feet"!
Which they did; the OUN worked with the SS to round up and slaughter 4,000 of the city’s Jews. Their weapons of choice: everything from guns to metal poles.



Right Sector (Ukrainian: Пра́вий се́ктор, Pravyi Sektor) is a Ukrainian nationalist political party and paramilitary collective of several organizations, described by some major publications as having far right, nationalist, or ultranationalist views.

The group claims to have at least 5,000 to 10,000 members.

It first emerged at the end of November 2013 at the Euromaidan protests in Kiev, as an alliance of far-right Ukrainian nationalist groups and the Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian National Self Defence (UNA-UNSO).



Neo-Nazis holding important seats in Ukrainian parliament and government:



1. Oleh Tyahnybok, Svoboda leader, now a top official of the Ukrainian Parliament, is an unrepentant anti-Semite.
In the summer of 2004, he made a speech to his followers at the gravesite of a Banderist commander in which he declared: "You are the ones that the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine fears most."

His peroration also made reference to "Kikes" as prominent among those the Banderists fought.
Tyahnybok was expelled from Parliament for his remarks, but the "revolution" has installed him back in his seat – and more powerful than ever.




2. Ihor Tenyukh, interim defense minister and a member of Svoboda’s political council. Formerly commander of Ukraine’s navy, in 2008, during Russia’s war with Georgia, he ordered Ukrainian warships to block the entrance of the Russian Navy to the bay of Sevastopol.




3. Andriy Parubiy, National Security Council chief, co-founded Svoboda back when it was the “Social National” (ahem!) party.




4. Dmytro Yarosh, deputy head of the National Security Council, i.e. the police, and the founder-leader of "Right Sector," a militant neo-Nazi paramilitary group that took charge of security in the Maiden.




5. Oleh Makhnitsky, Svoboda member of parliament, is prosecutor-general.




6. Oleksandr Sych, Svoboda parliamentarian and the party’s chief ideologist, is deputy prime minister for economic affairs.




7. Serhiy Kvit, a leading member of Svoboda, is to head up the Education Ministry.




8. Andriy Moknyk, the new Minister of Ecology, has been Svoboda’s envoy to other European fascist parties.
Last year, he met with representatives of Italy’s violent neo-fascist gang, Forza Nuovo.




9. Ihor Shvaika, agro-oligarch and a member of Svoboda, has been appointed Minister of Agriculture. One of the richest men in the country, his massive investments in agriculture would seem to indicate a slight conflict of interest.


The main question here is why international community is ignoring the fact that power in Ukraine is led by Neo-Nazis???



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

I think you really put light on the whole problem here. So many folks want to turn this distant and impersonal story (and it is to a great many...tho not all, I'm well aware) into just another "Us/Them" fight. Not here, in particular, but it's all over. People are either pro Russia or Pro NATO while seeming to assume those are the only positions which exist.

Now once shooting starts between the Western nations and the Russian Federation, there is a lot to be said for Nationalism and interest in not losing a war on a scale only the most elderly recall seeing in person at this point.

Until then tho....This is such a mixed bag of bad mojo for the West and Russia both stirring the pot and pouring in fuel that there is no white or even gray hat between them. Both wear hats as black as pitch, this time. So, flip a coin....until open war starts, anyhow



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 08:29 PM
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Russia has lost its mind -




Olexiy Solohubenko ‏@OS1954 · 4h
Russia can use Article 51 of UN Charter (self-defence) to bring in troops to #Ukraine say Ambo Churkin - trying to legalise invasion



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

Probably because Russia is the one using Nazis and supporting them to accomplish the Russian invasion of Ukraine?


Insurgents Identified: The Green Men of VKontakte



Tikhon Karetniy

Like Ponomarev, Karetniy is a member of the Belorechensk Cossack community in Russia. A photo posted on the community page details the group involved in the seizures in Sloviansk called “Terek Wolf Sotnia“. His profile is relatively new (registered in February, active more recently) so it cannot be confirmed that his identity is real, however, he does have the social connections with other members involved with a higher degree of authenticity. It’s likely this is him pictured with Ponomarev.




Evgeny “Dingo” Ponomarev

Ponomarev is a 39 year old native of Belorechensk, Russia, in the Kuban region. Pictured above, he is a Registered Cossack with full police badge. He is active in the Terek Cossack community, and featured in many of the photos recently presented by CNN and the BBC detailing the same group of insurgents appearing in Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.




Alexander Ganchev

While Ganchev’s profile is littered with cat pictures and memes, in 2013 through to January 2014 there are many photos of him in combat training, including with sniper rifles, assault rifles, heavy machine guns, and rocket launchers. Recent photos from April show him with members who seized buildings in Donetsk. Groups he is a member of include Berkut support, The Supreme Council of the people of Ukraine and Russia (which asks for “practical” assistance in imposing referendums), Crimean “self-defense” groups, and airsoft rifle groups in Crimea (which appears to be a front to gather militants and buy weapons). His current city is listed as Horlivka, Ukraine, and he appears to be from Makiivka.




Igor Georgievsky

His hometown is listed as Simferopol and photos show him in Sevastopol, and in group shots with other self-defense militants. Above he is seen at the Sloviansk airfield in Donetsk region (here’s video of the airfield with the same helicopters ). He’s in the ‘People’s Liberation Movement in Ukraine‘ (which calls to ‘liberate’ the ‘western occupied colony’ from ‘invaders’), Russian Spring, and another group which calls to retake Odessa from ‘fascism’. He is seen with the Terek Wolf Company insignia.


Click link for remainder of article / profiles.


edit on 24-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: Mamatus

Anyone who supports US in this Ukraine Fiasco is supporting WW3,

read what seemingly experienced thread assessment analyst says how this story will end

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: RadiationAndCancer
a reply to: Mamatus

Anyone who supports US in this Ukraine Fiasco is supporting WW3,

read what seemingly experienced thread assessment analyst says how this story will end

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I was not aware the US sent troops into Ukraine, resulting in destabilizing consequences.

oh... wait.. that was Russia.

Who can easily end the situation by withdrawing their occupation troops from Ukraine Crimea territory in addition to removing its forces from south and east Ukraine.



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