Progressive idea 80% tax - income over $500K doesn't go far enough to fix income inequality

originally posted by: bkleinhe99
I didn't pay myself a salary for 3 years, I didn't save or invest in our retirement...there were times where we were brought to our needs by the magnitude of having so much debt over our heads. I would never do it again....however I worked hard through it all and thanks to an understanding wife today the business is successful and I make over $500K a year.

I have been in the same place that you were and I admire your fortitude. I think if the people clamoring for higher tax rates actually tried to start and operate their own businesses they would have a paradigm change in a matter of days.

a reply to: bkleinhe99

you say you have 6 employees, are they part time? full time? do you pay them minimum wage? if more than that how much more?....
you say you worked hard and succeeded, as if no one else has worked that hard, and failed through no fault of their own. you say making 500k is not rich?...and you would NOT be able to live in Calif. or NY on 500k a year?.....sorry pal, your credibility just went to crap with that statement...I live in calif. I have friends that make considerably less and sent more than 2 kids to college. they ONLY made about 200k a year, put 4 kids through college, live in a very nice house all paid off, have nice cars, take vacations. are they extravagant in their spending?...no, are they cheap?...not by any means.....now I could say you got lucky, but you would counter with, people make their own luck, and you would be right IN SOME circumstances, but not the majority by any means....I don't know what your business was, but it's obvious you've never encountered a large corporation that deliberately targeted your product or service, and undercut you in every way to drive you out of the business....apparently this "working hard and sacrificing" crap, doesn't work in this "all too real" business world....I have....so to me... yes...you got lucky, while working your ass off.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: bkleinhe99
I didn't pay myself a salary for 3 years, I didn't save or invest in our retirement...there were times where we were brought to our needs by the magnitude of having so much debt over our heads. I would never do it again....however I worked hard through it all and thanks to an understanding wife today the business is successful and I make over $500K a year.

I have been in the same place that you were and I admire your fortitude. I think if the people clamoring for higher tax rates actually tried to start and operate their own businesses they would have a paradigm change in a matter of days.

yes absolutely...especially if you set up a "S" corporation...www.ftb.ca.gov...

let's see...no federal taxes...1.5% state tax ON PROFITS ONLY...write-offs include salaries, etc...so burdensome, right?

originally posted by: jimmyx
yes absolutely...especially if you set up a "S" corporation...www.ftb.ca.gov...

let's see...no federal taxes...1.5% state tax ON PROFITS ONLY...write-offs include salaries, etc...so burdensome, right?

You have obviously never run your own business. By filing as an 'S' corporation the burden shifts over to the individual shareholders (read: owners) to pay Federal Income Tax. An 'S' corporation is by nature a small business as the filing guidelines dictate that you cannot have more than 100 shareholders.

Additionally, being that the burden is shifted to the owners any salary and profits are taxed accordingly with the profits having to be paid in quarterly estimated payments. In the above case the business owner, if an 'S' corporation, would not have paid income tax as he did not draw a salary or turn a profit. Do you feel people should be paying taxes if they do not draw a salary or turn a profit?

It is now obvious that the business owner above, if an 'S' corporation, is paying Federal Income Tax through the estimated payment process after deducting any depreciation or debt retirement.

Oh, and by the way, the 1.5% is an additional levy above and beyond other taxes that California places on 'S' corporations similar to the only other place in the United States that does so, New York City. The minimum payment is $800 regardless if you are turning a profit or not. Taxifornia wants its pound of flesh regardless.


I really wish people actually understood what the hell they were talking about instead of just regurgitating tax codes and thinking the rest of us never had to navigate them.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The truth is the truth, and LOL isn't the answer now is it. You fall into the same paradigm the government loves divide, divide, divide. Instead of chastising the successful why wouldn't you celebrate the fact you likely live in one of the few if any countries where this kind of success can be accomplished. Still yet you can't conceive of the idea that the rich don't eat at McDonalds so when you pay more than a entry level wage who pays for it? You refuse to get that the Walmart customer isn't rich, lets give all the employees a $10.00 hr. raise. What's the cost of goods now? Will it be easier for the low income customer? You can't really be this clueless. When the customers go away because of lower prices somewhere else so will the $10.00 hour raise.

Hot air is what jealous people expound when they think they aren't getting whats owed to them or things aren't fair for them. Rich people don't think this way, they think of what they can do to make things work to better their situation.

No one owes you or me anything, everything I have I earned. I expect nothing from anyone but myself. I started with a pickup and a tool box in the back, went to work and was self employed for 35 years. No government programs, no health insurance for years, no special minority programs, no food stamps, no welfare, nada. Just work. No whining.
There were plenty of weeks with nothing but peanut butter sandwiches or spaghetti all week. Whether you do it and make tens of thousands or millions even billions it's a different mind set, not blaming someone else.

We haven't even brought up the people I have met in my life that have done it on different scales. But I can tell you of one, he walked out of the Russia worked along the way to eat, came to America. In ten years he could probably buy us both out. It makes me smile because he is genuinely a great person and wants the same for everyone. But he knows as I do, no one is going to give it to you.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Still yet you can't conceive of the idea that the rich don't eat at McDonalds so when you pay more than a entry level wage who pays for it? You refuse to get that the Walmart customer isn't rich, lets give all the employees a $10.00 hr. raise.

I can tell you the answers to those. There is a wealthy Conservative businessman in California (Silicone Valley) named Ron Unz who is/was pushing for a raise TO $10.00/hour, not $10 MORE than what they're earning now.

Here. Read about it:

'Corporate welfare'
The current system amounts to a form of "corporate welfare," Unz said. Major chains like Walmart and McDonald's keep their employees' wages low, knowing the government will provide them with food stamps and medical care to compensate for their low pay.

An October study co-authored by researchers at the UC Berkeley Labor Center found that 52 percent of the families of fast-food workers are enrolled in one or more public assistance programs, compared with 25 percent of the workforce as a whole.

RON UNZ: Well, I think there are very strong liberal and conservative reasons for raising the minimum wage. Right now, $250 billion a year in social welfare spending goes to workers who can't survive on their paychecks. What we're talking about is a massive system of hidden government subsidies for these low-wage employers where they can shift the costs of the workforce over to the taxpayer. I think businesses should stand on their own two feet and have to pay their workers instead of forcing the taxpayers to make up the difference.

www.npr.org...

Furthermore, the price rises we're talking about are very much smaller than most people would realize. Wal-Mart is America's largest low-wage employer. Three hundred thousand Wal-Mart workers average about $9 an hour. All Wal-Mart would have to do to cover a $12 minimum wage is raise their prices by 1.1 percent one time. The average Wal-Mart shopper would pay only an extra $12.50 per year. People wouldn't even notice the price hike.

Today in California, the polls show overwhelming support for a large rise in the minimum wage, and the idea has now been endorsed by multi-billionaires of the left, right, and center. Let’s hope that such potent combination of dollars and voter sentiment quickly produces enacted legislation and causes the issue to permanently vanish from the political radar screen just as would be suggested by my theory.

www.ronunz.org...

McDonald’s and fast-food places would probably have to raise their prices by 8 or 9 percent, something like that. Agricultural products that are American-grown would go up by less than 2 percent on the grocery shelves. And those sorts of price increases are so small that they would be almost unnoticed in most cases by the consumer.

I would actually argue that if you are looking at a company like Walmart that is suffering economically these days, because so many of the Walmart shoppers are getting too poor to shop ar Walmart, what you are talking about is shifting up to maybe $150 billion a year from the sort of families that don’t shop at Walmart to the sort of families that do shop at Walmart. Walmart raises their prices by 1 percent, roughly one time, and they get a huge amount of extra business.

www.salon.com...

But, I know, you don't want to hear it.
Well, tough. Get a grip.
Would you like some more sources? Just do a google search for Ron Unz. You can find plenty of material beyond what I've sourced here. All you've provided is your opinion. And it doesn't outweigh the benefits of lifting 900,000 people OUT OF POVERTY.

Who is it you think SHOPS at Walmart, or EATS at McDonalds? The rich.... ha...hahaha..ha...not. See? You thought I didn't know.
I DO know. And I've provided sources. Have you? no.

Putting more money in the pockets of their workers would INCREASE their sales by the very customers to whom they cater. I'm not laughing now, either.
I'm disgusted.


ETA: And you're right, it's certainly no LOL matter when CEOs are paid 331 to 1200 times the amount a laborer earns. Did you READ the extext I posted?

I can explain to you what happened when I was in a Publicly Traded company working as a supervisor, and the workers were being pushed beyond their limits... I took up their case with HR, and was told to

and then systematically driven to quit. They show no mercy, all for .01% being 'overbudget' for allowing a high-risk pregnant housekeeper to slow down her room quota until her pregnancy was secure. Nice.

If you think corporations DON'T budget to keep their CEOs well-heeled and protected, you are completey ignorant of "the truth." I've seen the spreadsheets. I've heard the GM ranting about people's heads rolling if they didn't stay UNDER BUDGET - at the RISK of the worker's health.
When they told me I couldn't have time off to care for my elderly dad (giving my mom a respite), I quit. Screw that.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

I say that is not good enough!

There should be an 80% tax on all personal assets over $3 Million because $3 Million is the accepted savings needed for a comfortable retirement. With exemptions for the primary residence, and one vehicle per person in the household. That would bring about true income equality.

How about it!

Should we start a white house petition so that people who live off trust funds and hide money in stocks/bonds and other sources of "non-income, income" which is currently not considered income will have to live off what the rest of us do.

SO, you get to decide how people live and spend their money? But they don't get to decide this for themselves.

a reply to: macman

Just one quick question,

how many billionaires and millionaires can the economy support?



Have you ever played monopoly if so you know what happens when all the money is hoarded.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Unlike the Game, there is not a finite supply of wealth.

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
Have you ever played monopoly if so you know what happens when all the money is hoarded.

Wealth is constantly being created through emerging markets, commodity valuation, new technologies, etc., there is not a finite amount of wealth in the world and it is not constrained like a board game.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

How much more could the tax paying publiuc do?

Los Angeles Times:
In fact, in 33 states and the District of Columbia, welfare pays more than an $8-an-hour job [see chart]. In 12 states, including California, as well as the District of Columbia, the welfare package is more generous than a $15-an-hour job. In Hawaii, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington, D.C., welfare pays more than a $20-an-hour job, or more than 2.75 times the minimum wage.


Cato Institute Study:
Welfare pays over $15.00 an hour in Kalifornia. What more do people want. an Obama phone? Oh they already have those. Maybe we should let people come across the border and give them these benefits, oh yeah we do that to. When do you stop taking?

I will show you the courtesy and use the liberal rag LAT. You see up until the ripe old age of 54 years I was born and raised in Kalifornia had my business there, Southern Kalifornia no less. Where it is the worst. I can tell you you can't even go to home depot and pick up illegals for less than 10 bucks an hour. Don't tell me they or anyone else there can't make it. THere are millions there of can't make it's. They even get a tax refund even though they didn't pay any. Go figure, I have seen the checks. I don't need to sight sources I am a source.

Ron Unz a republican? He is just another foolish politician trying to buy a vote with yet another promise that does nothing but insult the welfare recipients already making $15.00 an hour. You see in Kalifornia the wife claims the husband has left, she collects welfare, while the husband is out working. These can't make it's are making good money now.

What has happened to the construction trades is criminal, politicians should be held accountable. There is no longer a apprentice, journeyman, program. The politicians have ruined one of the 10th largest economy in the world to buy votes by giving things away.

So yeah lets raise minimum wage and see how long it takes for things to look like Detroit, because God knows we are screwing the poor by not paying enough.

I met the right woman and moved to Virginia to get away from the mess in Kalifornia 3 years ago now. I spent 35 years in the service industry, can drive from Santa Monica to San Diego by surface streets. I have a friend thats a councilman in a suburb city the evil that goes on in state government there is horrific.

If you live there and don't believe me then PM me and I will send you to meet someone at his place of business that came here with nothing, worked for tips, yes tips, and now owns the same kind of business his net worth is more than a few million. All in 12 years, no whining, no complaining, no government help, nada. I have met a long list of people of all races and nationalities in So Cal. that did it without anything but work and smarts. If you live down in the OC area I will send you to the Russian. How do complete strangers to our system show up and be so successful?
Because of Ron Unz? Because of government? Because they showed up got a good wage and a good job?

Hardly.

As far as CEO, budgets, and HR the wife is a CFO of a petroleum company I get it and better than you know. They have a labor board to take up employee problems you could have went to. Here in Virginia unemployment is a joke you get it no matter what anymore. My wife handles the calls when the Labor Dept. calls in, they had the audacity to say they would award unemployment to a fired employee because the employee manual didn't say they couldn't steal.
How much more can society do for people, now you can steal from your employer and still get unemployment?

You were a good daughter taking care of your dad by quitting your job, be thankful you live in a country where it is still possible. I am thankful everyday that I was born in a country where the possibilities are still endless. Where else can you go write a small software program for a telephone and make a million. Where else can you go and make millions as a professional sports player, where else can you live that your vote counts the same as any rich person.
Where else can you take a boat trip and you have a Coast Guard to help you, A fire dept., police dept when trouble arrives, the best hospitals in the world. I could care less what Larry Ellison makes, I only want to make my situation better, that requires my efforts not taking something from Larry Ellison.

a reply to: macman

Unlike the Game, there is not a finite supply of wealth.

So we have an infinite amount of wealth and it comes from where and is available to whom?

So yes there is a big difference between real life and monopoly as we have the FED to fix the game in favor of the rich;
do you think this is a good thing?

The FED is one of the main tools for earning those big bucks is it not?

a reply to: MarlinGrace

where else can you live that your vote counts the same as any rich person.

Seriously? Did you not just hear how a 'rich person' (Corporation) can spend unlimited amounts on LOBBYING our corrupt politicians?
My vote counts the same???? Pffftt....please.
Anyway, thanks for the 'good daughter' compliment.
Did you read the articles?

a reply to: AlaskanDad

Wealth is not just measured in US Dollars. Your view is very single dimensional.

People earn and loose wealth all the time.

If you honestly believe that people can't continue to bring themselves into the "wealthy" class, then there is no hope for you. I suggest you stand aside and allow people like myself and AugustusMasonicus to do our thing.

I am sure I can send you a postcard once I get there in a bit.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

The FED simply prints money, loans it to banks and charges interest on that loan. They are a private entity and to the best of my understanding have never been audited.

Wealth is every where in the world. Oil and precious metals are constantly being mined. Food is constantly being grown.....

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
So we have an infinite amount of wealth and it comes from where and is available to whom?

As long as the human races continues to propagate wealth is, for practical purposes, infinite. If it were finite, and being that we have used currency in one form or another for our recorded history, we would have run out of it by now. Wealth is constantly being created by daily human activity; saving, investing, creating, etc.

The FED is one of the main tools for earning those big bucks is it not?

That is a rather Amero-centric view point as there are other major influencers in wealth creation besides the Federal Reserve.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If it were finite, and being that we have used currency in one form or another for our recorded history, we would have run out of it by now. Wealth is constantly being created by daily human activity; saving, investing, creating, etc.

All backed by.....
NOTHING.

It's nothing more than an algorithm that moves at inconceivable speed - and if there were a run on the banks....


fiat currency is disgraceful, fake, and nothing more than 'ink on paper.' Or rather 'binary digits in a program'.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

All backed by.....
NOTHING.

It's nothing more than an algorithm that moves at inconceivable speed - and if there were a run on the banks....


fiat currency is disgraceful, fake, and nothing more than 'ink on paper.' Or rather 'binary digits in a program'.

Well, we agree.

Seems again though, that Big Govt has delivered this to the people.

a reply to: macman

Dude. I have said I don't appreciate big government. I have said that corporations are not "people" and should not have the right to contribute unlimited amounts to BUY CONGRESS.

You think my 'choice of career' was lame....."if I wanted to make money." I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE MONEY. I care about the corporate welfare and destitute, struggling people who are the backbone of this country.


I am more interested in the collective than being extremely wealthy.

There is NO REASON that CEOs should be paid 1200x the wage of the workers that make that Corruptoration profits.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No sorry I didn't, being honest NPR and Salon are places I just can't bring myself to go. Of course your vote counts the same. The rich just get to decide what you get to vote on. Is this the fault of the rich? Hell no it's the fault of politicians. Our system is so corrupt it's nuts. I had no idea until my friend became one of the useless politicians, and he told me what goes on at the local level. I can't imagine what happens at the federal level.

Listen this is why the Tea Party people scare them so much, both useless parties, they see regular people getting tired of the status quo. They are having a significant effect on the political system. They used to stand next to the frwy in Calif. they were the neighbors. I was shocked. They aren't the demons both parties claim. Just regular folks. Lets hope they don't get corrupted like these useless knuckleheads in Washington now. You have to admit if both republicans and democrats don't like them they must be good for us.

I don't know all the answers no one does I just know I can't depend on anyone but myself, and neither should anyone else, make your own way depend on yourself and your family. Become independant. I ask the wife if she thinks given who and what she knows if she thinks things are bad enough economically to collapse, her reply? "Oh yes we are way past that", she talks to banks all the time they know it's coming.