GOP Scrambles to Condemn Rancher's Remarks on Race

In the interest of CONTEXT, here is the link to the entire video:
bambuser.com...

The media use only 1 minute of the video to frame him up as a racist (it begins around 17:00).

To be honest, it sounds to me like he said "Let me talk to you about the Mexicans, I want to tell you one more thing I know about the natives...".

I can't help but picture Harry Reid watching the reports on this, and cackling "Dance, Puppets! Dance!"

originally posted by: theantediluvian


Please enlighten me as to how Civen Bundy is right about "his land claim?"

The land was given freely by Bundy's family under a deal that was predicated on him getting grazing rights. If the feds want to unconstitutionally have vast holding of federal land, they should still own the treaties in place that are effectively a lien on that property in perpetuity.

The fact that you would even pretend that it's a credible issue for speculation whether or not black people in this country were better off under slavery is astonishing to me.

I aim to astonish.

I am not pretending anything. THe premise of this story is to undercut his legal claim to that land. I am trying to point out that there should be a distinction between what he said, and the prior issue. In case folks here are prone to such oversights. If you are not such a person, then congratulations on finding the hard way into agreeing with me.

The relatively safe harbor of slavery? WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? It disgusts me to hear people espouse a serious belief in the natural right of any person to be free and then immediately go on to pretend that, "ehh, maybe slavery wasn't so bad." Maybe Cliven Bundy could go set up a cotton plantation on some public lands in Alabama and you can try out slavery for a month or two and report back to us on what a relative safe harbor it was.

Ill abstain from responding to this, as you didn't understand what I said. If you have further questions, please feel free to ask once you have reread my post. In particular:

" Obviously any man is better of free" (yes, i had a type-o which I left in place ).

originally posted by: buster2010
He simply can't see in his mind that they do have more freedom simply because they don't have someone standing over them with a whip beating them if they didn't work fast enough.

They do have freedom, freedom to do nothing at all. I think having all the freedom to make any choice you want is great, but that doesn't mean there are no consequences from your choice. Where I think his dim view on this confuses him, and what he most likely thinks, but is not smart enough to get that flash of insight, is as we enter a nanny state of subsidies for everyone there ceases to be consequences in the freedom of choice.

Not too long ago a person's freedom of choice to do nothing ended up that they starved.... Somewhere there is a happy medium that motivates people to succeed in life without that motivation being basically death, but we are heading so far away in the other direction that to do nothing and live a minimalist lifestyle as a government burden is becoming more of the norm than not.

Here is Cliven responding to a question about his remarks:

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: theantediluvian


Please enlighten me as to how Civen Bundy is right about "his land claim?"

The land was given freely by Bundy's family under a deal that was predicated on him getting grazing rights. If the feds want to unconstitutionally have vast holding of federal land, they should still own the treaties in place that are effectively a lien on that property in perpetuity.

Bundy repeated a similar claim Thursday when he told TheBlaze website: “My family has preemptive, adjudicated livestock water rights filed with the state of Nevada. They were established in 1877 when the first pioneers entered the valley. Among those first pioneers were my grandparents from my mother’s side. My father either bought or inherited his Nevada state livestock water rights and I, in turn, have done the same.”Bundy repeated a similar claim Thursday when he told TheBlaze website: “My family has preemptive, adjudicated livestock water rights filed with the state of Nevada. They were established in 1877 when the first pioneers entered the valley. Among those first pioneers were my grandparents from my mother’s side. My father either bought or inherited his Nevada state livestock water rights and I, in turn, have done the same.”

Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home was purchased by his parents, David and Bodel Bundy, from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946.

source

His whole story sounded pretty suspicious to me from the onset as somebody who has done a fair amount of genealogical research, most of these claims would be quite easily proved... if they were true. Even if you accept his premise, there's nothing indicating that his claim is true and in fact available evidence is to the contrary.

Perhaps that's why the judge ruled against him?

Contrast that with the 1998 opinion from U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson in a case where it was determined Bundy wouldn’t be allowed to use federal land for his cattle because of failure to pay grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management. Rawlinson wrote that it wasn’t until roughly 1954 that “Bundy or his father or both have grazed livestock on public lands owned by the United States and administered by the BLM.”

EDIT:
If you're interested, read through the source. There's a clear lack of evidence that anyone from whom Cliven Bundy is descended had anything to do with that land prior to the purchase by his parents. A lot of families have stories that simply aren't true, maybe he believes what he's saying but he's wrong.

Sure not all GOP tea partiers and conservatives are racist but since their basic philosophy is so steeped in ethnocentric consciousness there will be many amongst them bordering on or outright racialist.

Ethnocentrism is judging another culture solely by the values and standards of one's own culture.[1][page needed] Ethnocentric individuals judge other groups relative to their own ethnic group or culture, especially with concern for language, behavior, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and subdivisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity.[2] Ethnocentrism may be overt or subtle, and while it is considered a natural proclivity of human psychology, it has developed a generally negative connotation.[3]

This is the opposite of what Jesus taught “love other than oneself”

Indeed the GOP conservative philosophy is so steeped in ME ME ME and selfishness
they often tilt over into racism.

If they would actually try to follow what Jesus taught ( even though they claim to be Christian) cultivating love and respect for others then they would slowly become more humane and loving people not just reactionaries.

duped post.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The land was given freely by Bundy's family under a deal that was predicated on him getting grazing rights.

Does he have any paperwork to back this claim up? When the Bundy's moved out west they only settled on 160 acres and Bundy is using far more than that to graze his cattle on. So his claim to have the right to graze on that land is false.

I called this one

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Give it a couple of weeks of predictable public lambasting and group-think and we'll see the raids occur... complete with the sheeplike "USA! USA!" bullcrap from the preprogrammed masses.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

It does sound a little bit different !!!

Sounds like he was saying the government is to blame for many problems.

All part of his psych-tactics.

He may not be as dumb as he portrays.

Warning: not safe for work

Now we've got a lot of things, a lot of racism in the world right now
Whose more racist? Black people or white people?
Black people....You know why? Cause we hate black people too
Everything white people dont like about black people
Black people really dont like about black people
There some # goin on with black people right now
There's like a civil war goin on with black people
And there two sides....
There's black people, and there's niggas
And niggas have got to go
Everytime black people wanna have a good time
Ignorant ass nigga # it up
Can't do #, cant do #, without some ignorant ass nigga #in it up
Cant do nothin
Cant keep a disco open more than 3 weeks
Grand opening, grand closing
Cant go to a movie the first week it comes out
Why cause niggas are shooting at the screen
What kind of ignorant # is that
Hay this is a good movie, this is so good i gotta bust a cap in here
Hay I love black people, but i hate niggas boy, boy i hate niggas
Boy I wish they'd let me join the Klu Klux Klan
# I'd do a drive-by from here to Brooklyn
I'm tired of niggas man
You cant have # when you around niggas

a reply to: Willtell

Hmmm...

So "Give ME your tax dollars" is humane and loving, but
"Let ME keep what I earned" is selfish?

Kids say the damndest things, I tells ya!

originally posted by: Willtell
Sure not all GOP tea partiers and conservatives are racist but since their basic philosophy is so steeped in ethnocentric consciousness there will be many amongst them bordering on or outright racialist.

Ethnocentrism is judging another culture solely by the values and standards of one's own culture.[1][page needed] Ethnocentric individuals judge other groups relative to their own ethnic group or culture, especially with concern for language, behavior, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and subdivisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity.[2] Ethnocentrism may be overt or subtle, and while it is considered a natural proclivity of human psychology, it has developed a generally negative connotation.[3]

This is the opposite of what Jesus taught “love other than oneself”

Indeed the GOP conservative philosophy is so steeped in ME ME ME and selfishness
they often tilt over into racism.

If they would actually try to follow what Jesus taught ( even though they claim to be Christian) cultivating love and respect for others then they would slowly become more humane and loving people not just reactionaries.

I laugh at the blatant toeing of the party line, here.

WillTell, do yourself a favor and take a good, hard look at what Progressives actually do to ANYONE that doesn't think, and act, just like they do. It's despicable.
They are responsible for more division in this country than any other group of people, and worse, they're proud of it.

You've been duped, my friend.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: ProfessorChaos

It does sound a little bit different !!!

Sounds like he was saying the government is to blame for many problems.

All part of his psych-tactics.

He may not be as dumb as he portrays.

I honestly think it's his accent that screws him up.

originally posted by: Willtell
Sure not all GOP tea partiers and conservatives are racist but since their basic philosophy is so steeped in ethnocentric consciousness there will be many amongst them bordering on or outright racialist.

Ethnocentrism is judging another culture solely by the values and standards of one's own culture.[1][page needed] Ethnocentric individuals judge other groups relative to their own ethnic group or culture, especially with concern for language, behavior, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and subdivisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity.[2] Ethnocentrism may be overt or subtle, and while it is considered a natural proclivity of human psychology, it has developed a generally negative connotation.[3]

This is the opposite of what Jesus taught “love other than oneself”

Indeed the GOP conservative philosophy is so steeped in ME ME ME and selfishness
they often tilt over into racism.

If they would actually try to follow what Jesus taught ( even though they claim to be Christian) cultivating love and respect for others then they would slowly become more humane and loving people not just reactionaries.

Do you agree that there should be consequences good and bad for one's actions or inactions?

Do you agree that a person should be fully responsible for their actions good or bad?

Do you agree that the individual is responsible for their own success and failures?

Do you agree that outside of physical and mental handicaps the burden should be on the individual mostly and only on the "people" for short periods of time?

How do you get me me me out of this?

Well unless you are suggesting that the responsibility and burden to care for myself and my family is me me me, then I do agree with you.

a reply to: luciddream

such an ignorant insult filled response of someone blinded by words, facts and figures. i know better than you as i've been using such handouts for most of my life and not just for being disabled, i know poverty and struggle quite well.

have you ever even lived side by side in poverty with minorities? how can i be stereotyping when i grew up with blacks and latinos on the same side of life?
i know just fine that whites take more in benefits but of course that's true when counted by overall numbers of population, not to mention most whites getting benefits from disability and retirement, not poverty, more of a percentage of minority populations are poor though or are you saying poverty is a lie just because whites make most of our population of this country?

people like you are why those who need help are ignored in this country, with your distorted perception of reality, ignorance of suffering and poverty but most of all, your reliance on outside information to get your "facts", though, what else can be expected of a naive, ignorant middle class who know nothing of this side of life?

Sometimes unpopular opinions make more sense than populist nonsense, so try this one. Assuming for a moment that Bundy is a racist (he isn't, but in some people's minds every rancher/redneck is, so we'll consider the lowest common denominator here for the sake of argument), so what? What does that have to do with the initial argument that the feds overstepped and were out of line sending a military response to deal with a civil matter? Nowhere, in any of the COnstitution, do the words "except racists" exist. They are entitled to the same rights and protections as every American... including the right to not have armed federal goons and stazi troopers terrorize them at their doorstep.

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

Warning: not safe for work

Maybe if old Bundy differentiated like Chris does then everyone would fully understand what he is talking about, but then I do not think Bundy would be as entertaining....

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Thank you for posting the entire video, although I am sure there are many people who will not watch it to see for themselves what was being presented by Mr. Bundy. He is an old farmer explaining how he sees things, HIS perspective of the US and the government. Is he being politically correct with his explanation? Probably not, but he is DEFINETLY NOT being a racist.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Willtell
Sure not all GOP tea partiers and conservatives are racist but since their basic philosophy is so steeped in ethnocentric consciousness there will be many amongst them bordering on or outright racialist.

Ethnocentrism is judging another culture solely by the values and standards of one's own culture.[1][page needed] Ethnocentric individuals judge other groups relative to their own ethnic group or culture, especially with concern for language, behavior, customs, and religion. These ethnic distinctions and subdivisions serve to define each ethnicity's unique cultural identity.[2] Ethnocentrism may be overt or subtle, and while it is considered a natural proclivity of human psychology, it has developed a generally negative connotation.[3]

This is the opposite of what Jesus taught “love other than oneself”

Indeed the GOP conservative philosophy is so steeped in ME ME ME and selfishness
they often tilt over into racism.

If they would actually try to follow what Jesus taught ( even though they claim to be Christian) cultivating love and respect for others then they would slowly become more humane and loving people not just reactionaries.

Do you agree that there should be consequences good and bad for one's actions or inactions?

Do you agree that a person should be fully responsible for their actions good or bad?

Do you agree that the individual is responsible for their own success and failures?

Do you agree that outside of physical and mental handicaps the burden should be on the individual mostly and only on the "people" for short periods of time?

How do you get me me me out of this?

Well unless you are suggesting that the responsibility and burden to care for myself and my family is me me me, then I do agree with you.

Are talking about Clive Bundy who thinks that he should graze cattle, which he sells for a few grand a pop, on public land who is not taking responsibility for the fact that he hasn't paid grazing fees for 20+ years?