Another "WOW" Signal, or something more natural?

a reply to: teamcommander

Methinks you may be on to something here. And it can get even "stranger" than that but for the purposes of this discussion, if they are real physical beings like we are and had advanced to the point of using quantum entanglement for communications purposes, than the sources of these radio bursts would either be simply an output of some of their other technology - like some machine that spits these radio bursts out every so often - in which case it isn't intelligent communication at all, but rather, simply evidence of intelligence.

Or it was developed and used for the distinct purpose of trying to attract the attention of a species that still does use the radio frequency spectrum and would be scanning for it.

Either way it would be an incredible find. The only way to rule out either scenario would be to determine that the signals are from some other "natural" source like a star, quaser, etc. The high power and extremely narrow focus of the signals is certainly more than a little interesting though. I'm glad we found it and are paying attention to it.

Who knows what we'll find on the other end of it?

a reply to: JadeStar

Say you agree to send out two beams of light to your two friends who live on opposite sides of the galaxy (you live in the middle). Ahead of time you tell them that if one of the beams of light is red the other will be blue. So you send the blue beam to your friend on one side and immediately she knows that your other friend is receiving a red beam at the same time. Aha! You say, my friends have now communicated at a speed faster than the speed of light and violated relativity, but no real information has been passed between them. You have told both of them at a normal sub-luminal speed about what you just did and that's all.

But don't you see what you just did?

It's the beginnings of a definition of a language. Once you establish what that language means (by using sub-luminal communications), you can then use the language defined by the various states of quantum entanglement to communicate. Once the system is trusted you no longer need to rely on the older method of communication to verify it.

It would be like sending a letter to a friend across the world after having just spoken with her on your cell phone to make sure that she did indeed get the call. That's a ridiculous analogy, but I think you see what I mean.

It doesn't even have to be a very robust language. Hell, even binary would do it. Think of all of the things that are communicated today - especially computer-to-computer - using only binary...

originally posted by: [post=17836774]JadeStar

Joe Davis is a good example of a modern day out-of-the box thinker when it comes to life in the cosmos.

Jade, Do you have a link for this character Joe Davis? ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: JadeStar

Say you agree to send out two beams of light to your two friends who live on opposite sides of the galaxy (you live in the middle). Ahead of time you tell them that if one of the beams of light is red the other will be blue. So you send the blue beam to your friend on one side and immediately she knows that your other friend is receiving a red beam at the same time. Aha! You say, my friends have now communicated at a speed faster than the speed of light and violated relativity, but no real information has been passed between them. You have told both of them at a normal sub-luminal speed about what you just did and that's all.

But don't you see what you just did?

It's the beginnings of a definition of a language. Once you establish what that language means (by using sub-luminal communications), you can then use the language defined by the various states of quantum entanglement to communicate. Once the system is trusted you no longer need to rely on the older method of communication to verify it.

It would be like sending a letter to a friend across the world after having just spoken with her on your cell phone to make sure that she did indeed get the call. That's a ridiculous analogy, but I think you see what I mean.

It doesn't even have to be a very robust language. Hell, even binary would do it. Think of all of the things that are communicated today - especially computer-to-computer - using only binary...

But the communication is still limited by the speed of light regardless of the language. There is simply no way to communicate the state of, or measure the entangled particle faster than light.

originally posted by: SheopleNation

originally posted by: [post=17836774]JadeStar

Joe Davis is a good example of a modern day out-of-the box thinker when it comes to life in the cosmos.

Jade, Do you have a link for this character Joe Davis? ~$heopleNation

Absolutely.

Joe Davis is a modern day 'mad scientist' who is actual a tenured lecturer at MIT. Think of him as the closest thing we have to Tesla today.



He has also sent two messages into space. One of them using the huge planetary radar at Arecibo, Puerto Rico using, an iPhone....(pictured below).






He is also an artist and lover of women.

Wikipedia: Joe Davis (artist)


See Also:

New Scientist: Joe Davis: The mad scientist of MIT?

The Daily Galaxy: The Brilliantly Weird World of MIT’s 'Mad' Scientist

And...

My bat# crazy brilliant mad scientist long lost friend Joe Davis

Joe Davis's Laser Tower Reminiscent of Lightsail Concepts


There's even a movie about him called....



Movie Website: Heaven Earth and Joe Davis


There are others out there like him but not quite as flamboyant. Science is not as close minded as people on these forums sometimes make it out to be. Scientists are a diverse lot.

BTW: I have had the fortune of communicating with him by email. Brilliant scientist, insightful artist. Wonderful man, a genius perhaps before his time.

a reply to: JadeStar

Thank you very much my friend, we all appreciate it. I did find a Joe Davis connected to the Department of Biology at MIT on You Tube, so now I feel better about my searching skills.

I appreciate the links. Looking forward to listening to what he has to say. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: woogleuk

At least if they are/were as technologically advanced as us with no way of real communication, maybe we could get some new T.V. shows without the drawn out, cliche, themes that are just regurgitated here on Earth lol.

originally posted by: mindseye1609
exotic does indeed get the blood pumping. i have visions of warp drive impulses being detected or something. sadly exotic in this case probably means a new kind of super nova or something along those lines.

I've always wondered how we would communicate back home if we ever went deep space. it wouldnt be possible with anything we have now. huge delays and what not we've already experienced this just going to the moon. I'm sure this is all obvious to most but what could a solution be? anything like these pulses?

I seem to have heard someone is experimenting with using a laser as the carrier for an RF signal.
While still only the speed of light, it does show promise for deep space exploration.

Thing is, I wonder if they're recording the signal with enough data resolution to see if there's a difference between what may be an artificical or natural pattern. I would think that something like a UWB type signal would still show some discrete banding and synchronicity in peaks and troughs in all the frequencies it may be on. (Think of it as the 1's and 0's lining up evenly on the grid.) A more natural pulsed radio noise source at the same data resolution still wouldn't form that kind of pattern. (Or at least do it consistently through its entire period.)

Also keep in mind that a pulsed transmission can be pushed to a higher power level than a carrier band. The power going through the transmitter is at such a short duration that you could run some magnitude more through it before burning it out. Implement that in a directional emitter, and the signal you send should have some pretty good reach in terms of getting to other stars.

well, they are not as far as we thing. Saturn and Jupiter moons hold so many secrets.

The broad banded nature of the Fast Radio Bursts has prompted some to compare them to natural astrophysical processes, rather than intelligent signals. That's a reasonable possibility, or course, but not the only one worth considering.
From the work of L.G. Spitler, et al, at Arecibo, we have an observed bandwidth of 350 MHz. We don't know how much broader that impulse was. 350 Mhz may seem too broad banded for an intelligent signal, bit who can say, really, given a much more technically advanced civilization? A very high data rate requires a very broad banded signal.
350 Mhz is only a tiny fraction of the electromagnetic spectrum.

The linked article does a good job of explaining a possible natural astrophysical cause of Fast Radio Bursts. Of course, we do not know if 'Blitzars', as they call them, even exist.
www.sciencedaily.com...

It could be that a great many of highly advanced civilizations will have utilized psychic communication, which may only detectable by psychic means, which means they will have devised some form of protection, defense or encryption... Although there would still be a great number of species/civilizations that either have not yet mastered psychic communication or long distance psychic communication, or they can do it but still use other means for most communications or long distance communications.

We have an ever expanding bubble around earth moving at, I guess the speed of light...that contains all our radio and TV communications. I guess the first visual signal was Hitler giving a speech. So the first thing the others will see of us humans, is Hitler. They can hear other stuff in radio signals before TV was broadcast, so it won't be the first information they get from us at least.

But anyway, that bubble, or I guess it's more like a solid sphere, packed full of our communications, until we stop broadcasting, then it will be a bubble with a shell. I wonder how thick that shell will be? Right now it's about what? 75-85 light years thick? And when that shell hits another civilization with radio tech, they will get a 85+ year "drama" about the human race. I'd never get any sleep wanting to stay caught up in the activities of these humans. They would have a show just for condensing and playing the most interesting parts. I'd be on the edge of my seat during ww2... and then to have our scientists tell us this all happened a few thousand earth years ago?

Maybe we are about to run into another planets radio shell. Would such a shell be detectable before it hits you? I just want to examine another planets broadcast history!

a reply to: 3n19m470

Maybe we are about to run into another planets radio shell. Would such a shell be detectable before it hits you? I just want to examine another planets broadcast history!

Your question reminds me of the times my grandma's cow would get out of the pasture and I would have to go find and bring her back.

I never did find a littlebit of cow here and more over there: it was always the whole cow at one time and all in the same place.

I guess what I am saying is; "you never know what you"ll find in a box of chocolates".