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Another "WOW" Signal, or something more natural?

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posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: neformore

I think the frequency of alien life is underestimated even by most alien believers. If our solar system has at least planet with self aware intelligent species and plausibly other planets or moons with at least basic forms of life then every star system is likely to have at least 1 form of life. The intelligent life is probably happily isolated.

There were some mysterious scientific test that I saw that showed DNA appear somewhat unexpectedly, DNA could be more universally pervasive than we could possibly imagine, DNA based life forms too.




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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I'd expect each intelligent species to evolve technologically in different ways that could very well be exotic to us. This would go for how they send & receive communications. So, there's the possibility of them using something other than what we use... Or it could very well sound different.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:31 PM
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originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: JadeStar

I personally believe that one of the major drawbacks in our search for life across the universe is assuming that everyone out there will think like we do, and use the frequencies we deem viable.


Good point but you should know some very intelligent people are constantly thinking outside the box because we don't know what's out there.

Joe Davis is a good example of a modern day out-of-the box thinker when it comes to life in the cosmos.

As for frequencies, the ones we deem viable are for a reason and it has nothing to do with us but the physical universe itself.

Some frequencies are clearer than others. The universe is a very noisy place at certain bands of frequencies.



At others our own planet is noisy (both natural noise and radio frequency interference) or our atmosphere absorbs or deeply attenuates any potential signals so these place limitations onto the frequencies we look for ETI technology at.



Once we have radio telescopes in space other frequencies will be opened up.



Its a big, big universe and we understand so little of it, and yet we're arrogant enough to imagine our way of communicating is the only one.


I don't recall anyone ever saying that.

In fact there are all sorts of ways envisioned to communicate and like I said, people have thought about them:



Only a handful have been examined.

As you can see, we have a long way to go before we even search the entirety of the standard radio-SETI search space.




So piling more search spaces on top of that when very little money is spent on the search probably won't get us much closer, at least not yet.




edit on 23-4-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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originally posted by: QuantumDeath
I'd expect each intelligent species to evolve technologically in different ways that could very well be exotic to us. This would go for how they send & receive communications. So, there's the possibility of them using something other than what we use... Or it could very well sound different.


The laws of physics are the same throughout the universe. A narrow band signal will still travel better than a wide band one. Certain parts of the spectrum are better than others, etc.

Since the laws are the same for them as they are for us there are good reasons to look for certain things, and those reasons have little to do with us but rather the laws of the universe.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk
Yep! Just look at how are own communication systems have changed in just 50 years! We've gone from long wave am, to super high frequency digitaly encoded signals, and in just 50 years!!
In another 50 years we might be using quantum devices that do not even have a signal!


There's a problem with your scenario, though. As we progressed from AM to digitally encoded compressed data, the transmissions look more and more like noise. Eventually, it will be impossible to tell data transmissions from white noise, and it'll look like random radio bursts.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:24 PM
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originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I cannot remember the name given to the theory, but there is the idea that advanced alien civilizations may not broadcast their communications on just one, or even a few frequencies, but instead would broadcast a small piece of info on every frequency and all of those "little bits" would have to be put back together by the recipient. Since signals can be disrupted or "lost" in their travels through space, this would guarantee the communication would make it to it's destination.

We just don't have the tech to test such a theory, but I believe they are working on it.

Perhaps the sort of signal described in the OP is part of that sort of system.



The technology is called 'Spread Spectrum'. A narrow band signal is made to very quickly move over a much wider range of frequencies. It's not inconceivable that this is the explanation for these fast burst signals.
Given their apparent rarity, I'd suspect that a unusual natural process could be responsible. A natural signal must pulsate no faster than light takes to cross its source's diameter. Given the 3 millisecond duration of the pulses, this points to an object less than 560 miles across.
This is too small for the sort of black hole we expect to find at the cores of galaxies. It could be from an ordinary stellar black hole or a neutron star.
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 23-4-2014 by Ross 54 because: made separation between quoted material and reply



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: Ross 54
I cannot remember the name given to the theory, but there is the idea that advanced alien civilizations may not broadcast their communications on just one, or even a few frequencies, but instead would broadcast a small piece of info on every frequency and all of those "little bits" would have to be put back together by the recipient. Since signals can be disrupted or "lost" in their travels through space, this would guarantee the communication would make it to it's destination.

We just don't have the tech to test such a theory, but I believe they are working on it.


Not at all. We do this all the time. You might take a look at UWB communication, we used to call it "sneaky wave".

Linky - comment by me as 'erewhon'



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: JadeStar
The laws of physics are the same throughout the universe.


Got to pull you up a bit there.

We think they are. Actually we don't know that at all, because we can't see all of it.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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originally posted by: neformore

originally posted by: JadeStar
The laws of physics are the same throughout the universe.


Got to pull you up a bit there.

We think they are. Actually we don't know that at all, because we can't see all of it.



Actually we don't need to see all of it to have a wealth of evidence which pretty much confirms that the laws are the same.

If they weren't the same the universe itself would not exist.

Saying there could be different laws in another part of the universe is like saying one can be "a little pregnant". It's pretty much all or nothing.

Imagine a house of cards. Pull a card out from one part of the house's first level and the whole house falls. Those cards are the laws of physics. They are interrelated and have to be universal in nature or the universe just doesn't work just as the house wouldn't stand if one of its cards is pulled out from its base.

Change one law, here or there and the universe ceases to be. And that's not just some random thought. That's hard core mathematics and universal constants.

One of the most compelling arguments is the value of the fine structure constant:



Astronomers can determine α by careful measurements of the fine structure of spectral emissions from the stars far-far away. The value involves elements of electromagnetism, special relativity, and quantum mechanics. It's value is the same in all directions and at all distances.

The places we can't see, ie beyond the event horizon of a black hole where physics breaks down, may as well be another universe.

That doesn't mean there aren't mysteries like dark energy, dark matter, etc. But those mysteries are within the known laws of the universe. So far nothing has changed that, but it will be very interesting someday if a discovery ever does make us re-write some fundamental part of physics. If we found out that a certain law didn't apply in a certain situation, we'd be very curious why, and we'd work hard to modify the law(s) until they were once again universal.
edit on 24-4-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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The fast radio bursts are considered to be billions of light years distant, and very powerful. The first of these, discovered in 2007 is thought to be about 3 billion light years away. It momentarily put out about 40 million times as much energy as the strong radio source at the center of our galaxy, yet seems to be only around 1000 kilometers in diameter.
edit on 24-4-2014 by Ross 54 because: corrected erroneous piece of information



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Ross 54

my god, what would possibly do that? some kind of unknown black hole? definitely some kind of unknown lol thats for sure.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 06:51 PM
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Oops! got ahold of the wrong figures. That should have said: the 2007 Fast Radio Burst was momentarily about 4500 times (not 40 million) as strong as the radio emission of the Sagittarius A* supermassive black hole and accretion disk complex at the center of our galaxy. Still impressive, given the small size ~ 1000 kilometers of the source, as indicated by the very brief radio pulse. Sagittarius A*, by way of comparison is about 44 million kilometers in diameter.
Black holes and neutron stars seem to be the favorite explanations for Fast Radio Bursts. Just how they would have produced such enormously energetic emissions has not been settled, though.
edit on 24-4-2014 by Ross 54 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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originally posted by: Ross 54
The fast radio bursts are considered to be billions of light years distant, and very powerful. The first of these, discovered in 2007 is thought to be about 3 billion light years away. It momentarily put out about 40 million times as much energy as the strong radio source at the center of our galaxy, yet seems to be only around 1000 kilometers in diameter.


I think you're thinking of Gamma Ray Bursts.

Fast radio bursts are a bit different...

Astronomy Magazine: Fast radio bursts might come from nearby stars


Although their characteristics suggested fast radio bursts came from distant galaxies, new research points to origins from flaring stars within the Milky Way.

First discovered in 2007, “fast radio bursts” continue to defy explanation. These cosmic chirps last for only a thousandth of a second. The characteristics of the radio pulses suggested that they came from galaxies billions of light-years away. However, new work points to a much closer origin — flaring stars within our own galaxy.

“We propose that fast radio bursts aren’t as exotic as astronomers first thought,” said Avi Loeb of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Fast radio bursts are both brief and bright, packing a lot of energy into a short time. Only six have been discovered to date, all of them in archival data. Each was detected only once, making follow-up studies difficult.


If they are from nearby stars they are all the more intriguing in my opinion.



posted on Apr, 24 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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Thanks, JadeStar. The linked article makes a case for the possibility that the fast radio bursts are within our galaxy. This would certainly lower the energy requirements for the phenomenon. Given the ~ 3 millisecond duration of the pulses, and the inferred maximum source diameter of under 1000 kilometers, I'm wondering how contact binary stars or even young, low mass stars could produce such pulses. These stars would all be much larger than 1000 kilometers in diameter, it seems.



posted on Apr, 25 2014 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: neformore

The signal came from a distant galaxy, and obviously a long time ago. PROBLEM SOLVED:




posted on Apr, 25 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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I find it funny how alot of us are looking for signs of life so far away when they are already here.... Cmon peeps, u really think we are alone in this universe, more importantly, on this small rock?



posted on Apr, 25 2014 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: [post=17835677]big_BHOY



Think of the technological feats we have achieved in a little over 100 years (all the more remarkable given the wars/conflicts + nations classifying research etc, etc). Imagine what we could be like in 500 - 1000 years.



Its because of all the wars that we have advanced so rapidly over the past hundred, we have adapted just because we had to, so we didn't get expunged by the other guy, most of the the tech we have today has trickled down from military applications.



posted on Apr, 25 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: JadeStar


And just what-if, an alien species has progressed in technology enough to use "quantum-entangled particles" as a sourse of communication rather than any primative radio frequencies. We have already found if you separate such particles, whatever is done to one is reflected in the actions of the other, instantly. This could easily be used to transmit data over great distances without any means of the signal being lost or intercepted.

To big_Bhoy:


Skip over to an alien race that has been exploring the galaxy for 1000's/10's of thousands of years...during that time, they will have seen wonders, encountered many different species (be they intelligent or not). Rather than continue down that path, I think it's far more likely that instead of continuing down the same path that they will probably move to another galaxy & look for pastures new.


Also what-if, an alien race had been exploring and looking for other civilizations from a long way off and were just now getting close to our part of the universe? No one says they have to be close to us when they started out. Maybe we are their next destination during a 10,000,000 year voyage.



posted on Apr, 25 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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Alien Civilization Types From 1 To 7

Hey, Like one poster said it could be from a real old alien civilization a few billion years beyond us. The Burst they picked up is billions of light years out there.

The Kardashev scale 1-3 and beyond here: www.weirdwarp.com...

#7 Is crazy !! : Type 7

This would be a God or a deity, able to create universes at will, using them as an energy source, and a large one at that. Type 7 though is well beyond the stage of understanding that humans can incur beyond a technological singularity.



posted on Apr, 25 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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originally posted by: teamcommander
a reply to: JadeStar


And just what-if, an alien species has progressed in technology enough to use "quantum-entangled particles" as a sourse of communication rather than any primative radio frequencies.



We have already found if you separate such particles, whatever is done to one is reflected in the actions of the other, instantly. This could easily be used to transmit data over great distances without any means of the signal being lost or intercepted.


Quantum entangled particles can not be used for communication because in order to find out the states of the particles information must be communicated about the state of one of them.

That communication can't take place faster than the speed of light and would require something like lasers or 'primitive radio frequencies" to do so.

So quantum entanglement offers no advantage over radio in terms of speed. Though it would allow for unbreakable encryption.

I often see people misunderstand quantum entanglement and just what it is and what it's not.

It is not some new form of communication nor is it ever likely to be. Here's why:

No actual information is passed when the entangled particles affect each other.


Say you agree to send out two beams of light to your two friends who live on opposite sides of the galaxy (you live in the middle). Ahead of time you tell them that if one of the beams of light is red the other will be blue. So you send the blue beam to your friend on one side and immediately she knows that your other friend is receiving a red beam at the same time. Aha! You say, my friends have now communicated at a speed faster than the speed of light and violated relativity, but no real information has been passed between them. You have told both of them at a normal sub-luminal speed about what you just did and that's all. (A way of proving there's no faster than light communication is that you could lie and send them both the same coloured beam of light and they would never know!).

With Quantum Mechanics it gets a bit more complicated because theoretically no-one knows the state of the particle until it has been observed, but you still cannot affect the state of the particle so the argument is the same.

As I said above though, quantum entanglement still does not imply faster than light communication. You cannot affect which state the particle goes into, even though it doesn't 'decide' on its state until you observe it.



edit on 25-4-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



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