"You're dead," Minnesota Homeowner Told Teen Burglar

a reply to: lightedhype
Unless they are wearing armor, they are dead before they hit the floor. That's why I don't use a little .22
No muss, no fuss, no need to worry about return fire, don't pass go, don't collect $200

Just because someone is a "kid" doesn't mean they aren't dangerous. Even if they had no weapon, they could very well have inflicted great harm to someone 50 years older than themselves.

If someone breaks into my home, I'm going to defend myself first; then I'll call Law Enforcement. Why? Because in the amount of time it will take them to respond, I could very well be dead myself.

I have a big ole dog whose job is to protect me long enough for me to get to my weapon. When I do reach my weapon, I will have no hesitation in using it.

Would I deliberately kill someone who is already incapacitated? No. Would I kill someone whom I feared was intent on doing bodily harm to myself and/or my family? Yes without hesitation or remorse.

J

originally posted by: lightedhype
LMAO this olsd man was armed with a GUN. These kids were not.

How did the home owner know if they were armed or not? Do burglar carry signs round with them saying they are carrying weapons

Anyone breaks in my home Il treat them as armed and dangerous.

If he used 1 shot on each of them and killed them he would be justifed. Since he shot them in the head after being downed he should face manslaughter if anything. 1st degree murder will not stick and he will probably plea to a lesser charge. Being caught up in the moment, saying what he said, and moving the body definitely ruined his case.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I wonder if the recording device picked up an words like...

STOP

I AM ARMED

LEAVE BEFORE I SHOOT

Probably not....

How was this in self defense was he being attacked was his life in danger ? no he wasn't being attacked his life really wasn't in danger . Funny how people can cry when a cop thinks he is a judge jury and executioner but when some unarmed kids are mowed down by some freak you people cheer and applaud.

How many people would still be cheering if it was their kid who was gunned down like this ?

originally posted by: knowledgedesired


Once I identified they were kids and of no threat I would have let the law prevail instead of killing them.

And how do you dertime they are a threat?

You have 5 seconds to decide and you are terrified?

Unless you have X ray vision good luck!

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
There is no material item on this planet that would make me take another individuals life.

What about your own life?

someone breaks in to you home how do you know that the home invader wont shot you dead (or for us Brits stab you) ?

Id rather Shot, or in my case stab first and ask questions later than risk my own skin.

originally posted by: knowledgedesired
Bottom line for all of you... HIS LIFE WAS NOT IN DANGER!!! Think about that and what it means.

And how as he to determine he was in no danger?

Again he had to make a split second determination while scared witless. Not everyone is spec ops trained!

Maybe it was overkill but you've got to consider the mindset of people who live with violence/crime.

I grew up in Gary, IN, several homes on our block were broken into/horribly vandalized. The guys wouldn't stop and were getting blatant.

Everyone was on edge. I came home to my house destroyed. My bike, stored in the basement, was on the kitchen floor wheels spinning. The cops told me these guys spent the day in the house, they had eaten, left when they heard me at the door. They said I was "extremely lucky."

My dad was livid, not only had I walked in on it but the house he had worked so hard for was trashed. My dad was violated on a very personal level. He went into hyper protection mode. He hid everything of value, secured windows etc. he was on constant alert.

I came home early from school, my dad worked shifts, I didn't know he was home. I went in the back door to get my bike from the basement. The door to the house was locked so I didn't bother going in. I got my bike to the top of the stairs, turned to go out the door and there was my dad with shotgun in hand. It wasn't aimed at me but by the look on his face he was ready for anything. His face went white, we moved soon after.

Living around violence is a game changer. You never know how you're going to react until it's in your face. Not saying what this guy did was right but it's what can very easily happen to people who live on the edge/in constant terror. The man was 65 I'm sure he felt very vulnerable.

Not a good idea to repeatedly victimize the same people, best to move on. Might seem like easy pickins at first but things can get ugly when people finally decide they're done playing the victim.

It's a shame the thieves didn't go to juvie after the first B&E. I feel sorry for the old man, their local court let those kids stay out on the streets to target Mr. Smith again and that without a doubt contributed to Mr. Smith going a little bit nutso, now the same entity that helped to create the situation Mr. Smith found himself in has his fate in its hands. You don't have to be Kreskin to see that the justice system is going to hammer the old guy, in part to gloss over their own partial responsibility for this whole mess.

The old guy should have called the cops, the coup de grace on the girl was not self-defense, he shouldn't have tried to hide the bodies but the kids never should have been free to target him again and again so I personally would be inclined to go a little easy on him considering the circumstances...don't think that'll happen though.

a reply to: knowledgedesired


Recording device or not if you break in to my home you will not hear any advanced warnings from me you might see the flash from my shotgun for a split second.

I'm the first to advocate gun rights and one's right to self defense.

In this case Smith literally executed these two after they were incapacitated. He took it far beyond self-defense and planned this event out.

I'm not saying that he is without defense for his actions, only that in the eyes of the law what he did was in fact pre-meditated murder.

As someone who carries daily and has taken both firearms training and classes regarding the law, in my state this would clearly be a case of murder.

The tape continues with sounds of heavy breathing and what appears to be someone dragging something. After approximately 11 minutes there is the sound of Smith reloading his weapon. A female voice belonging to Kifer softly calls "Nick?" down the stairs. A shot is fired followed immediately by the sound of someone falling down the stairs. Smith is heard saying "Sorry about that," then Kifer screams. She says "Oh my God, I'm sorry," then three or four more gunshots are fired. Smith mutters, "B****," and then the tape captures the sounds of what is most likely the defendant dragging Kifer's body. Then there is a final gunshot.

Again, I'm not completely against Smith and I can understand how he must have been angry, frustrated, and frightened after multiple break-ins.. But when your attacker is lying on the floor bleeding out you don't execute them. He should have secured the area and called police and he wouldn't be facing any charges at all.

a reply to: qwerty12345

Of course he did so with unsportsmanlike conduct.

Unsportsmanlike conduct? Seriously??

These two had done it before - they had made a part-time job of it. For all we know they may have decided to be Bonnie and Clyde.
THAT is unsportsmanlike. And stupid. Did they deserve to die? I don't know....
but I can't blame the homeowner for defending his domain.

If the 'smiling teens' were well-known and into sports - well, breaking into people's homes is rather *cough* unsportsmanlike.

As for shooting them - were they armed? Did they threaten the man? Could he have just told them, "Stick 'em up. Stay right where you are. I'm calling the police."

Caught in the act is pretty serious. But I think premeditated murder is a bit much, no matter who these kids (or their parents) happen to be.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: knowledgedesired


Recording device or not if you break in to my home you will not hear any advanced warnings from me you might see the flash from my shotgun for a split second.

Would you then drag the bodies away on a tarp (to not mess up the carpet, because that was foremost on his mind while he feared for his life), then when you hear one of them still gasping walk up to them, put a gun under their chin and administer, in the owners words, "a good, clean killshot"? Following this would you then not call the police for 24 hours?

Also, any time a life is lost it's a tragedy. Even when the taking of that life is completely justified. There should be no celebration and no **** talking of the deceased. Some of you should really be ashamed of yourselves..

And again, this is coming from someone who concealed carries daily and absolutely believes in the right to bear arms. You defend yourself out of necessity, and you avoid confrontation and the taking of life. You do not chest-bump over the loss of life, human or animal.

originally posted by: freedomSlave
How many people would still be cheering if it was their kid who was gunned down like this ?

If my 18 year old had the criminal mentality to continually break into the homes of old folks ... and to get more and more violent with each break in .... then I would expect that someone would end up shooting her. It would be their right to do so.

I really don't like the whole kill shot thing.

However, I think the guy was within his rights.

I would not have done that.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: qwerty12345

Of course he did so with unsportsmanlike conduct.

Unsportsmanlike conduct? Seriously??

These two had done it before - they had made a part-time job of it. For all we know they may have decided to be Bonnie and Clyde.
THAT is unsportsmanlike. And stupid. Did they deserve to die? I don't know....
but I can't blame the homeowner for defending his domain.

If the 'smiling teens' were well-known and into sports - well, breaking into people's homes is rather *cough* unsportsmanlike.

As for shooting them - were they armed? Did they threaten the man? Could he have just told them, "Stick 'em up. Stay right where you are. I'm calling the police."

Caught in the act is pretty serious. But I think premeditated murder is a bit much, no matter who these kids (or their parents) happen to be.

The premeditated murder charge stems from the fact that he "finished them off" after they were already wounded and incapacitated. If you think this through you will realize it is a reasonable charge for these circumstances.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: lightedhype
Unless they are wearing armor, they are dead before they hit the floor. That's why I don't use a little .22
No muss, no fuss, no need to worry about return fire, don't pass go, don't collect $200

I've seen people return fire after being hit with a 5.56. It's not a stopping round. You have to usually fire multiple rounds to put a person down. I'll never own a AR again because of that, unless it's chambered in 7.62 or larger.

A large caliber pistol or shotgun is a much better home defense weapon.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: qwerty12345


Caught in the act is pretty serious. But I think premeditated murder is a bit much, no matter who these kids (or their parents) happen to be.

Let me get this straight, yourself (and other posters in this thread) believe that the following is not premeditation:

1. Sit on a chair in basement with 2 guns, chocolate bars, an energy drink and a tarp,
2. When basement door opens shoot whoever comes through not once but multiple times,
3. Drag the body onto tarp and away from carpet because he feared for his life so much that he was concerned his carpet would be stained,
4. When the girl comes through the basement door calling out for her friend, shoot her then place her body on top of the boys on the tarp away from the carpet,
5. When he hears the girl gasping he walks up to her, places a gun under her chin and administers "a good, clean killshot" after hurling a few insults at her,
6. Not call the police.

Please explain how this isn't murder? No really, I'm baffled as to how some people in this thread believe this wasn't premeditated.....

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: qwerty12345


Caught in the act is pretty serious. But I think premeditated murder is a bit much, no matter who these kids (or their parents) happen to be.

Let me get this straight, yourself (and other posters in this thread) believe that the following is not premeditation:

1. Sit on a chair in basement with 2 guns, chocolate bars, an energy drink and a tarp,
2. When basement door opens shoot whoever comes through not once but multiple times,
3. Drag the body onto tarp and away from carpet because he feared for his life so much that he was concerned his carpet would be stained,
4. When the girl comes through the basement door calling out for her friend, shoot her then place her body on top of the boys on the tarp away from the carpet,
5. When he hears the girl gasping he walks up to her, places a gun under her chin and administers "a good, clean killshot" after hurling a few insults at her,
6. Not call the police.

Please explain how this isn't murder? No really, I'm baffled as to how some people in this thread believe this wasn't premeditated.....

I just want to make sure people read this, because it's absolutely true.