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Are Atheist just a cover for Satanists?

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posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: maxzen2004
a reply to: Mizzijr

I disagree, the Puritans, Jews, Amish, ETC. came here for the religious freedom.

Faith in God was the seed for groups of people traveled to America to escape persecution.



The founding fathers were rational thinkers likened to Rene Descartes. While they were surrounded by religion, they respected it. They believed in a true Republic, so of course no one would shun them or put them down. It was respected, nothing more.

And no Atheist aren't a cover for Satanism, dude. They solely believe in themselves through self-empowerment. In reality, religious people do too. They just like to think they are weak without God and handicap themselves. If you think about it, God is a internal thing. Nobody can make you believe but you, right? So in that regard, isn't you that has the power in the end? Or perhaps it's God working through you? If that's the case, are you and God one in the same?

Maybe the ancient old axiom rings truth?

"The All is one and the One is All"

Surely.




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: Dorrell

Shut the front door are you seriously bringing this to the thread to argue your point. This is from the cutting edge religious site. Halloween is not satanic. Depending on the earlier religion's it was celebrated as a harvest festival or day of remembering the dead etc... instead of using your religious scriptures and beliefs maybe you should should actually fact check.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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According to LaVean Satanism...

As Anton LaVey explained in his classic work The Satanic Bible, Man—using his brain—invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.


www.churchofsatan.com...

According to this you can be an atheist and "worship" Satan - it's like make-believe.

Personally as a non-Satanic atheist I like to live a moral life, be kind, do good deeds - all that sort of stuff. My personal belief is that it's better to do good things because they are good things, not out of fear of an angry god.

Removing good from legislation doesn't mean you cannot have your beliefs - it just means that the legislation is more fair and inclusive because it doesn't cut anyone out.
If there is a god I don't think it would mind too much about not being name-checked over legislation.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: jokei
According to LaVean Satanism...

As Anton LaVey explained in his classic work The Satanic Bible, Man—using his brain—invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.


www.churchofsatan.com...

According to this you can be an atheist and "worship" Satan - it's like make-believe.

Personally as a non-Satanic atheist I like to live a moral life, be kind, do good deeds - all that sort of stuff. My personal belief is that it's better to do good things because they are good things, not out of fear of an angry god.

Removing good from legislation doesn't mean you cannot have your beliefs - it just means that the legislation is more fair and inclusive because it doesn't cut anyone out.
If there is a god I don't think it would mind too much about not being name-checked over legislation.


Oh no he would you see because you MUST praise his name! If you don't you'll be thrown in the eternal fires of hell! But you have free will of course... Oh and if you pick the wrong religion or was born into the wrong religion then again off to hell... Oh and each religion believes itself to be the right one so the likelyhood is you're off to hell... lol



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: Meee32

This reminds me of Jim Jefferies...



Why would Satan punish disbelievers or those who are bad? Those are his boys!!

You have to love the way comedian explains this...



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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I'm sorry. I do apologize. I got the wrong source for info!

Ok it's based on Celtic / Pagan ritual.


Since Halloween itself originated in paganism, it is not surprising that its customs are related to pagan belief. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica,

In ancient Britain and Ireland, the Celtic Festival of Samhain was observed on October 31, at the end of summer…. The souls of the dead were supposed to revisit their homes on this day and the autumnal festival acquired sinister significance, with ghosts, witches, goblins, black cats, fairies and demons of all kinds said to be roaming about. It was the time to placate the supernatural powers controlling the processes of nature. In addition, Halloween was thought to be the most favorable time for divinations concerning marriage, luck, health, and death. It was the only day on which the help of the devil was invoked for such purposes.


I think my original source worded it wrongly. The origin of Halloween is not Satanic but Halloween has been used by Satanists in the various sacrifices. Just as the Spring Equinoxe and Summer Solstice have been used by Satanists.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: Dorrell

Such costumes were used by the superstitious to prevent spirits from recognizing them and taking advantage. They were also an acknowledgement to the presence of such spirits. It depends on who wears them. But yes, "Satanists" (emphasis on the quotes) will often employ highly misguided conceptions of what spirits are and how to contact them. Kinda like throwing salt over your shoulder.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog
a reply to: Meee32

This reminds me of Jim Jefferies...



Why would Satan punish disbelievers or those who are bad? Those are his boys!!

You have to love the way comedian explains this...


Never seen this guys before but right up my street! Hilarious and so true! It really beggers believe that people just don't seem to see it. Just make excuses for it... It's like religions that allow gay marriage and gay members, but he killed a whole town for being gay, destroyed them with fire!! He is clear that he doesn't like gay I think... I've even seen a lesbian priest/vicor whatever, too funny really...



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
a reply to: SuperFrog

Except for this...I agree with you

"I don't believe in any of them, and as you have found out, legally country can't take sides, so it should remove all reference and mentioning of the god from public property, courthouses etc. or they should mention all gods, including flying spaghetti monster." This is YOUR opinion only.


It is not just my opinion, especially if they have to 'legally' remove them from public space. It should be common sense, that state should not mix/be under influence of religion.



originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
I agree it has done more harm than good over the years, but our country was founded at a different time, not today.
Even at that time, our founding fathers knew of danger mixing religion with state would create. That is discussed here more then enough on this topic already.


originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
The flying spaghetti monster was a smart-ass gag/protest/point-proving BS made up by "jihadist-aetheists" bent on stirring up crap.

First explain to me term 'jihadist-atheist'. It somehow sounds religious...



originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
My family is pretty religious, except for me and my brother, I guess we are aetheists too, but haven't been categorized like it sounds YOU choose to be. There is no reason, to down others beliefs or make fun of them especially as far as what some of the basis of our country put in place. Who cares if we say "one nation under god.."seriously? It's un-american otherwise. Don't you buy your kids christmas presents?? If you are Jihadist-aetheist, then you don't.

Why say something you don't believe in? What good have someone under oath with Bible, if person takes Bible as poor literal writing in horror genre?
How teaching ID, religion in schools will help your or my kids?
We should care, not just me, all of us, because it does matter.


originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
I am the same as you, but seriously what do you care if there are nativity scenes or christmas trees? It doesn't hurt me, and it certainly doesn't hurt you. We are all just trying to get through this thing we call life, and there are so many other important things for us as aetheists, christians, buddhists etc to focus on that are so much more important than just tearing people down because you are bored with your life. Get a hobby besides religious bashing.

How do you know that I was not hurt by religion and religious people? I have quite few hobbies, and none of them are religious bashing. This is more conversation then bashing. I really try to understand people who are religious.


originally posted by: Peekingsquatch
The idea of freedom of religion, was so people wouldn't be persecuted anymore for their beliefs, and could freely worship a can of coke if they wanted. Hey if that makes them feel better, why should I/we care??? Is it hurting me? Is it hurting you? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Did someone try to beat you in to submission over religion and you have a bone to pick with christians? You really need to re-think your views not as an aetheist, but as a person, because you are using it as an excuse only to stir up crap and persecute others. It's gives the real aetheists a bad name.


Just as Dr. Tyson has said in one of his speeches, as atheist, someone who believe in science I personally don't care what they teach their kids in church and Sunday school. But please, don't bring that stuff in our schools or try to mix it with science. I will never go to church or your home to tell you about atheism. On the other hand, a have countless folks come to my door and try to 'enlighten me'.

ps. Last part is not meant for you, as person, but for those who are religious. You said it your self that you are not, but you still seem in doubt. I wonder how would you react if your parents try to sign your kids in Sunday school...



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: Gear
a reply to: maxzen2004
US is falling behind the rest of the world in education, healthcare, freedom of press, economy, life expectancy, budget deficiency, scientific advancement, foreign exchange, human rights etc the list goes on. The US does not actually rank #1 in anything in the world aside from military size. Unless this is what you meant, could you please expand on how god made the US as it is?



Oh don't forget we are number one in prison population. Land of the free and also incarcerated.

p.s. I love your avatar, GG is awesome.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Meee32




Well, never the less this still doesn't make atheism a religion if some atheists decide to gather, does it? Girl guides gather too but they aren't a religion...
I'm well aware that othet religions call their place of worship something else... But I just don't much care, sorry about that... The point is atheism is not a religion, the lack of belief in something can't be...

Wait- what? I never said or insinuated that it was a religion. I was just correcting you when you said that atheists don't get together for gatherings and have meetings.



No, this is not an AGENDA... If someone tells you something and it seems like bs to you, that does not mean you have an agenda... That is ridiculous... What does it matter if someone is running round telling the truth? What is the problem with that? Lol...

Of course it's an agenda. That's the very definition of agenda. Also, the concept of truth is a very subjective thing. God is true to religious types. Unless of course you mean empirical truth- fact. In which case I repeat that Atheism by it's own nature is ignorant due to it's own absolute denial.
Look at it this way. Atheism 'claims' it wants truth.
Who better to define truth than scientists? So how about an appeal to authority?
-List of Atheist scientists: Richard Dawkings....that is all.
-List of Agnostic scientists: Einstein, Charles Darwin, Stephan Hawking, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Carl Sagan... you know- everyone else who is intelligent enough to outright not deny something with lack of evidence.
-List out of all scientists who push their agenda: Richard Dawkings....that is all.
See what I'm getting at? While Dawkings is technically classified as a scientist- all his works are a compilation of predecessors. He wastes any potential of real or original research due to advocating and pushing his agenda and belief system. Everyone else is out there on the field or in the lab actually seeking 'truth'.



You know you meant agenda in a negative light... And I dunno you brought up agendas so you tell me??? Lmao

It doesn't matter what side of the fence they are on, anyone who pushes an agenda has a negative impact in the search for knowledge.



Why do they deny? Because they do not believe!

I understand that they do not believe. But What I'm getting at is that Atheists think that the lack of belief is not mutually exclusive with denial of the existence of a higher being. Agnostics are fine to not believe. They don't waste their time or effort telling others how they should think.



Another falacy you have is requiring atheists to provide proof of a negative, which is of course impossible!!! And the burden of proof does not lay with us... Now does it?

I never invoked the burden of truth fallacy. I was pointing out how foolish the position of atheism is. Sure there are people who want to shove religion down your throat. This is the best they can do in terms of burden of proof. And you know what? You telling them why you can't accept it is the best that you can do in terms of burden of truth. But while you guys are arguing back and forth it's the agnostics who are developing scientific facts and theories which you use.




I am asked if maybe I am a satanist, I'm here laughing at this ridiculous premise... I'm saying believe what you like but you have no place in schools nor politics... How is this trying to convince someone to stop their religion and be atheist? Check yourself maybe?

Really? Because As I remember it- what you were discussing was great and in context. But then I corrected you about one thing (your claim to lack of establishments for atheist gathering) In which case you decided to push an agenda with me... So there's that.

edit on 23-4-2014 by Gear because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: maxzen2004

Bwahahahahaha

Christians get funnier every day.

"if you dont believe in my god, you are worshipping satan".
"anything else is communism"....any other buzz terms that you want to use to gaslight atheists?
Good lord people. How do you look at the mirror in the morning?
edit on 23-4-2014 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

" I wonder how would you react if your parents try to sign your kids in Sunday school..."

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. As a responsible parent, I'm not going to force my opinion on my kids or voice it all the time so they eventually believe what I believe. I want them to see all sides and make their own educated opinion, why should I deny them that?



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:19 AM
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originally posted by: Meee32

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: Meee32
If I had my way I wouldn't celebrate any of the above, you're right... I also do not celebrate ramadan (or however you spell it) are you still as shocked? Tell me, why would I celebrate religious holidays when I am not religious?

Speaking as a 40 year old kid...
Holidays (well, birthday celebrations aren't holidays..or perhaps the only one someone truly has, but anyhow..) are simply fun to participate in. I think we need more theme days
4th of july isn't a holiday (holy day), but same general concept..a theme, a family gathering, and something to break up the year...also with a theme feeling of sorts. Christmas is a pagan festival of..well, community really. Doctor Who gives good perspective on it.
In the middle of the winter, at the darkest and coldest part of the year, people look to one another, give a hug, and say well done...lets celebrate just to defy winter and pull together in celebration of love and life when nature is doing its best to turn you cold and kill you. I quite like that idea, also...cool music and pretty lights!.

Humans seem to have the innate desire to celebrate and come together...to deny this basic instinct is to deny your very animal tribal nature...who cares if the theme is of supernatural fat guys giving toys to good kids..its fun and a excuse to drink eggnog and sing carols with loved ones.
Learn to love life, even the weird stuff. Your not here for long, and if you deny yourself simple pleasures, regardless of how absurd the premise, then you only short change yourself.



But wait... lol... If you knew me you would know I am the jester, I love fooling around and I love love love having fun... I don't like peer pressure nor uniformity, people can gather anytime. I also feel like most of it is false, they come together for 1 day in tbe year maybe 2 and then don't bother with each other the rest of the time lol...

It isn't my bag... I'm the sort of person to wake up and say "lets go on holiday, right now!" Lol...

I don't see why that is a problem?

EDIT: As an example my mrs barred me from going shopping the other day for dragging the kids through the store by my feet. XD I don't care what people think of me and will quite often burst into song in the middle of tbe street lmao... Much to the dismay of my partner...

That's cool, yes, having a smile through life is pretty important imo. Lots of people who are anti-holiday are generally speaking, miserable people who would gladly just brood 24/7 as a lifestyle..and they are generally unhappy people who in turn try to make other people unhappy. Holidays overall..scheduled observed ones, they are great because of 2 things
1) it makes people get together once a year
2) it makes people leave once its over...which is welcome after spending a few days with em.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: Dorrell
a reply to: SaturnFX


October 31 - Samhain
Also known as Halloween, or All Hallows Eve as designated by the Catholic Church. This date is the Illuminati's highest day of human sacrifice

Halloween has been changed over the past 30 years in two important ways. First, children have been encouraged to participate by donning such inoffensive costumes as Barbie, Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman. Secondly, adult costuming and parties have reached a tremendous apex and has become a most macabre day of celebration.

Historically, Halloween is the deadliest holiday ever celebrated in human history. This Satanic night is dedicated to the Celtic Lord of the Dead, also symbolized by the Horned-god and the Stag-god. The Druids celebrated Samhain as a 3-day fire festival, building huge bonfires, thought to ward off demons that roamed around; additionally, the fires provided the means by which the required human sacrifice would be presented to the sun god. In enormous wicker baskets, the priests caged both human and animal sacrifices, which they then lowered into the flames.

The priests would carefully watch the manner in which the victim died in order to predict whether the future held good or evil.


That's the info I got on Halloween. A Pagan / Satanic Ritual day!

Occult Holidays and Sabbats

Ahh, well, your source is a demons in the cupboard type site. Its simply a celtic somewhat pagan festival similar to thanksgiving or other harvest type festivals. Some definite pagan overtones overall, but more folklore and superstition than any worshipping rites of demigods or whatnot.

Satanists will take anything and convert it into Satanism...simply because their whole goal is to parody everything possible for laughs most of all...same with Christians adopting tons of pagan holidays for their own agenda.

Just use the Wiki. that's close enough
edit on 23-4-2014 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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Actually they do. They have groups and meetings and conventions. I'm sure you've heard about Atheism Plus. 
If Richard Dawkings spent more time in scientific pursuit rather than making a career out of having the same constant argument with creationists then the world would be a better place. 
Atheists are foolish in my opinion. 
Any atheist without an agenda who has any real interest or pursuit of knowledge should really consider Agnostism.


originally posted by: Gear
a reply to: Meee32




Well, never the less this still doesn't make atheism a religion if some atheists decide to gather, does it? Girl guides gather too but they aren't a religion...
I'm well aware that othet religions call their place of worship something else... But I just don't much care, sorry about that... The point is atheism is not a religion, the lack of belief in something can't be...

Wait- what? I never said or insinuated that it was a religion. I was just correcting you when you said that atheists don't get together for gatherings and have meetings.



No, this is not an AGENDA... If someone tells you something and it seems like bs to you, that does not mean you have an agenda... That is ridiculous... What does it matter if someone is running round telling the truth? What is the problem with that? Lol...

Of course it's an agenda. That's the very definition of agenda. Also, the concept of truth is a very subjective thing. God is true to religious types. Unless of course you mean empirical truth- fact. In which case I repeat that Atheism by it's own nature is ignorant due to it's own absolute denial.
Look at it this way. Atheism 'claims' it wants truth.
Who better to define truth than scientists? So how about an appeal to authority?
-List of Atheist scientists: Richard Dawkings....that is all.
-List of Agnostic scientists: Einstein, Charles Darwin, Stephan Hawking, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Carl Sagan... you know- everyone else who is intelligent enough to outright not deny something with lack of evidence.
-List out of all scientists who push their agenda: Richard Dawkings....that is all.



You know you meant agenda in a negative light... And I dunno you brought up agendas so you tell me??? Lmao

It doesn't matter what side of the fence they are on, anyone who pushes an agenda has a negative impact in the search for knowledge.



Why do they deny? Because they do not believe!

I understand that they do not believe. But What I'm getting at is that Atheists think that the lack of belief is not mutually exclusive with denial of the existence of a higher being. Agnostics are fine to not believe. They don't waste their time or effort telling others how they should think.



Another falacy you have is requiring atheists to provide proof of a negative, which is of course impossible!!! And the burden of proof does not lay with us... Now does it?

I never invoked the burden of truth fallacy. I was pointing out how foolish the position of atheism is. Sure there are people who want to shove religion down your throat. This is the best they can do in terms of burden of proof. And you know what? You telling them why you can't accept it is the best that you can do in terms of burden of truth. But while you guys are arguing back and forth it's the agnostics who are developing scientific facts and theories which you use.




I am asked if maybe I am a satanist, I'm here laughing at this ridiculous premise... I'm saying believe what you like but you have no place in schools nor politics... How is this trying to convince someone to stop their religion and be atheist? Check yourself maybe?

Really? Because As I remember it- what you were discussing was great and in context. But then I corrected you about one thing (your claim to lack of establishments for atheist gathering) In which case you decided to push an agenda with me... So there's that.


I wont bother to try and reply as before too much hard work lol...

But yeah I thought hmmm maybe I got the wrong guy but no here you are talking of agendas... My phone sends it to the top on ATS I have no idea why but it annoys the hell of me lmao... anyway the quote is there...

As for the rest you did envoke the burden of proof by saying "there isn't evidence he doesn't exist"... Which is a non-sense anyway as you can't have proof something doesn't exist... And it's not the atheists job to provide proof anyway...

I'm not sure what the cherry picking of scientists means? What does it have to do with anything?

I am here in my leisure time so not sure what you are talking about really? Besides as I said I am not saying to them to change tbeir beliefs, I'm merely saying they shouldn't be in schools politics... It seems you're trying to label me something I am not?

I really couldn't care less what people beleive as long as it doesn't affect me and mine, why would I?



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: Meee32
Actually they do. They have groups and meetings and conventions. I'm sure you've heard about Atheism Plus. 
If Richard Dawkings spent more time in scientific pursuit rather than making a career out of having the same constant argument with creationists then the world would be a better place. 
Atheists are foolish in my opinion. 
Any atheist without an agenda who has any real interest or pursuit of knowledge should really consider Agnostism.


Actually most atheists ARE agnostic.

Agnostic Atheism


Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. The agnostic atheist may be contrasted with the agnostic theist, who believes that one or more deities exist but claims that the existence or nonexistence of such is unknown or cannot be known.[1][2][3]


Just because you acknowledge that the existence of a god is unknowable, doesn't mean you can't lean one way or the other. There is also agnostic theism too, but the typical atheist will tell you that once proof of said god is obtained, they will change their position on the matter. That is just agnosticism.
edit on 23-4-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: Meee32




Atheists are foolish in my opinion.
Any atheist without an agenda who has any real interest or pursuit of knowledge should really consider Agnostism.

And here is a prime example of the problem. You dont agree with atheists, so they are foolish and should change.

Do you not see how downright hypocritical and self-righteous that statement is? Especially when its quite clear you dont really have a grasp on atheism...what it is and what it isnt.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: maxzen2004

Atheism = Communism = Evil = Satanism

Communism's mantra is indeed a "God-less" state, where the only "god" for the people Is the State itself.  Communism is Evil, and Evil is the deception of Satanism.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:34 AM
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truthfully atheists do not believe in Satan. They may worship him but it would be unknowingly. Atheists have an agenda and they promote that agenda but its not evil. Atheists are not the only ones who have agendas that are against Christianity or do harm to Christianity. Jesus said Satan get thee behind me. He wasn't saying that person was Satan he was saying that their actions were in opposition to his(God) will. Satanism is not a religion like it has become today. Satan just means opponent or someone who is opposition to God. Therefore, atheists are satanist in practice but they are not the same as people who claim to worship Lucifer.

Christians are the biggest satanists their are. The catholic church itself has been the biggest proponent in the world against the values and laws God has. If anyone is against God it would be those whose actions have caused crusades and murdered people in his name when he did not ask them to at all. There is a time to kill but it is not because you believe something different.

as reference I am talking about the God who created the world /universe. He did that knowing it would error and be full of errors. God did it because it was the best plan to get as many followers as possible to choose him even through they could choose not to. God exists or doesn't exist we can believe whatever we want but it does not change the truth.



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