This Epitomizes Why Abortion Is Wrong !

originally posted by: deadeyedick
The answer is suffering even if no one wants to admit it. A baby being killed in mothers womb does not have the chance to live and suffer in order to move on past this existance. God gives everyone the chance to move on via death when your due is paid. Some stay just to bitch about the unfairness of the system and some stay to help others that are suffering. Denying the system and cutting off anothers chance to grow just causes more problems in the system. No it is not fair or just from our point of view but it is what it is.

Sometimes the baby is just a temporary hello experience with no real want to be here and frankly have nothing to really learn here. Then we have the tourists that are just having fun here treating the place as a MMO RPG but are really not invested at all in the future of this place. The people who come to teach and learn and sometimes help suffering. And then we have the students. It is all about what you wanna create on earth. A crappy place to learn that is overcrowded or a place that really teach the ones who comes, so they do not have to come back again and again and again.

a reply to: Bone75

You do realize the OP's source is mostly just guess work.

40 million a year for 30 years? You can't make that kind of average, reach 1.8 billion and then call it fact.

But I digress. There is no source for how many people are killed by religion, the thing about it, is that they tend to burn entire cultures out of history. They don't tend to keep detailed records of the millions they slaughtered during the crusades etc.

Also, anybody who claims to know the population of the earth at times where we weren't all interconnected and talking to each other is crazy sauce. Knowing what we know about historical revisionism, even in our own time I find it very hard to believe that what they say regarding how many of us were here is particularity true.

But as for numbers, just look at the number of people killed in the name of Terrorism. On both sides. It may not reach 1.8 billion, but neither is that grossly over estimated number listed in the OP either.

FTR: Yes, they are just a bunch of stories.

~Tenth

originally posted by: WarminIndy
And do you have the right to make laws for 14 year-old girls that don't belong to you?

Maybe you should stay out of the homes those girls live in instead of forcing abortion laws where girls who aren't yours can get an abortion without parents' knowledge or permission.

I'm not trying to make laws about that. I believe in CHOICE, whether it's a 30-year-old or a 14-year-old. The woman should have the CHOICE. No laws. Personal choice.

a reply to: ketsuko

So no one should be allowed to have sex unless they're wanting to have a baby? Are you against condoms then?

Genesis 38
9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.

If wasting semen is punishable by death then no one should be allowed to masturbate, wear condoms, or pull out.

Why aren't Christians up in arms about condom use, masturbation, or pulling out? Probably because they pick and choose the rules they want to follow.

ETA: What I find funny is how god thinks NOT getting his brother's wife pregnant is somehow worse than sleeping with his brother's wife.

No adultery you say?

"No, do as I say and not as I do" saith the LORD.

Whether abortion is "right" or "wrong" is a PERSONAL OPINION...

Bottom line: Do you want to make the choice or do you want the government to?

a reply to: WarminIndy

And which group will be targetted the most in that?

Are you implying that if all people regardless of faith/race/material wealth have a limit on 2 kids per woman that this will target a certain group because it can enforce minorities to stay minorities? You might be right that it will shift minorities around if we look at how childbearing is in the west it would probably mean that caucasian would become fewer compared to other more child prone cultures.

The funny thing is that in the western society the 2 kids per woman is already something that is implemented when you check the birth statistics without having to say you should have fewer kids.

kff.org...

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Planned Parenthood is responsible for the most abortions in this country, because Planned Parenthood advocates it the most. Have you ever wondered why Planned Parenthood and advertisements for Planned Parenthood is in the slums and ghettos?

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to interracial marriages, but when a young man tells a young girl to have sex with him or she is racist, then what is he proposing, actually? And where does he get the right to play the race card when it comes to sex?

I gather Planned Parenthood is the same as the UK's Family Planning? ....

Doesn't every one plan all other aspects of their lives? I would think the
number of children one had would be a natural progression from that.

So I don't understand why you say "Planned Parenthood is responsible for
most of the abortions ....Pregnant women must go to them if they
don't want to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.
Surely they (Planned Parenthood) don't go around rounding up pregnant
women and forcing abortions on them!!? Surely they are only responsible
in as much as pregnant women seek them out to solve the predicament
they already find themselves in.
They carry out the termination but they are not responsible for
it. That is the SOLE CHOICE of the woman with the unwanted pregnancy!

As to your other point ... I was under the impression that the women
of today were much too savvy to be coerced into having sex with any
man of any hue, if they didn't want to ...personal choice not race related.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: WarminIndy
And do you have the right to make laws for 14 year-old girls that don't belong to you?

Maybe you should stay out of the homes those girls live in instead of forcing abortion laws where girls who aren't yours can get an abortion without parents' knowledge or permission.

I'm not trying to make laws about that. I believe in CHOICE, whether it's a 30-year-old or a 14-year-old. The woman should have the CHOICE. No laws. Personal choice.

Why do we have laws about the ages in which it is legal to drink or smoke?

Heck, why not make it legal for 3 year-olds to smoke and drink. And when you say it is a choice for a 14 year-old, you have just stepped in for her parents, which the law says she is not adult until she is 18.

But hey, why not dismiss with all laws altogether? Let's just have a free for all.

The minute you said a 14 year-old should benefit from a choice guaranteed by law, you have just overstepped the boundaries against her parents, and then you say we should stay out of your house.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Planned Parenthood is responsible for the most abortions in this country, because Planned Parenthood advocates it the most. Have you ever wondered why Planned Parenthood and advertisements for Planned Parenthood is in the slums and ghettos?

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to interracial marriages, but when a young man tells a young girl to have sex with him or she is racist, then what is he proposing, actually? And where does he get the right to play the race card when it comes to sex?

I gather Planned Parenthood is the same as the UK's Family Planning? ....

Doesn't every one plan all other aspects of their lives? I would think the
number of children one had would be a natural progression from that.

So I don't understand why you say "Planned Parenthood is responsible for
most of the abortions ....Pregnant women must go to them if they
don't want to continue with an unwanted pregnancy.
Surely they (Planned Parenthood) don't go around rounding up pregnant
women and forcing abortions on them!!? Surely they are only responsible
in as much as pregnant women seek them out to solve the predicament
they already find themselves in.
They carry out the termination but they are not responsible for
it. That is the SOLE CHOICE of the woman with the unwanted pregnancy!

As to your other point ... I was under the impression that the women
of today were much too savvy to be coerced into having sex with any
man of any hue, if they didn't want to ...personal choice not race related.

Planned Parenthood was created by the Eugenics movement. Yes, Margaret Sanger advocated aborting races.

And you really haven't met too many of these young people, I don't think.

People also seem to think abortion is so pro-women, in some cultures it isn't, if it's a girl they abort because they want boys. So it's also the genocide of unwanted female babies.

I wonder how the ultra pro-choice crowd feels about that ?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: WarminIndy

And which group will be targetted the most in that?

Are you implying that if all people regardless of faith/race/material wealth have a limit on 2 kids per woman that this will target a certain group because it can enforce minorities to stay minorities? You might be right that it will shift minorities around if we look at how childbearing is in the west it would probably mean that caucasian would become fewer compared to other more child prone cultures.

The funny thing is that in the western society the 2 kids per woman is already something that is implemented when you check the birth statistics without having to say you should have fewer kids.

kff.org...

It's all about survival of the fittest. And which group currently is the fittest financially?

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
People also seem to think abortion is so pro-women, in some cultures it isn't, if it's a girl they abort because they want boys. So it's also the genocide of unwanted female babies.

I wonder how the ultra pro-choice crowd feels about that ?

Stopping legal, medically assisted abortion will NOT stop that. You'll just end up with abortion AND dead women.

~Tenth

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
People also seem to think abortion is so pro-women, in some cultures it isn't, if it's a girl they abort because they want boys. So it's also the genocide of unwanted female babies.

I wonder how the ultra pro-choice crowd feels about that ?

Did you know that in India there is a cultural tradition of eunuchs dancing for baby boys but not baby girls being born?

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
People also seem to think abortion is so pro-women, in some cultures it isn't, if it's a girl they abort because they want boys. So it's also the genocide of unwanted female babies.

I wonder how the ultra pro-choice crowd feels about that ?

Stopping legal, medically assisted abortion will NOT stop that. You'll just end up with abortion AND dead women.

~Tenth

Well, there is abortion AND dead women now in the United States from abortions performed in clinics, such as Planned Parenthood.

a reply to: WarminIndy



TOO RIGHT We do have laws ....

Trouble is they are not up held - there are whole grey areas, and the

rights of parents have either been eroded or they just don't care

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Whether abortion is "right" or "wrong" is a PERSONAL OPINION...

Bottom line: Do you want to make the choice or do you want the government to?

There shouldn't be a choice in the matter. The science behind reproduction is solid and has been for a long time. The fact is, from the moment of conception until the moment you find out you're pregnant, there has been a human being growing inside of you. Snuffing out that life before it gets big enough to spit in your murdering face is simply wrong and not a matter of personal opinion. How this came to be an acceptable practice is mind boggling.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
People also seem to think abortion is so pro-women, in some cultures it isn't, if it's a girl they abort because they want boys. So it's also the genocide of unwanted female babies.

I wonder how the ultra pro-choice crowd feels about that ?

Stopping legal, medically assisted abortion will NOT stop that. You'll just end up with abortion AND dead women.

~Tenth

Well, there is abortion AND dead women now in the United States from abortions performed in clinics, such as Planned Parenthood.

Ofcourse complications happen even in sound medical environments. What I'm getting at is that if you remove the abortion services from women who need it, they will find it somewhere and that somewhere is most likely to kill them.

I hate to use the image of a clothes hanger, but you get my drift.

7830602]Bone75[/post]

There shouldn't be a choice in the matter. The science behind reproduction is solid and has been for a long time. The fact is, from the moment of conception until the moment you find out you're pregnant, there has been a human being growing inside of you

The whole life begins at conception is actually still under investigation. There is NO proof at what exact moment, beyond 16 weeks that there's a 'person' there.

What you have stated above is a personal opinion, not a fact.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

The whole life begins at conception is actually still under investigation. There is NO proof at what exact moment, beyond 16 weeks that there's a 'person' there.

What magic happens at 16 weeks that turns a "blog of tissue" into a human being?

You want to know what makes it a baby, rather than a blob of tissue? Desire.

If a woman doesn't desire the child, she can kill it, legally, without cause or consequence. If the woman does desire the child, and someone does something (like assault her or get into a car accident) that causes her to lose the baby, they can be charged with murder or manslaughter.

If she wants it, it's alive; if she doesn't, it isn't. That's the logic of your "life doesn't begin at conception" argument.

Yes, there is proof of the moment there is a 'person' there -- at conception, because once that kicks off, all that little cell needs to be every bit a human being as you are is nutrition and time.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

Planned Parenthood was created by the Eugenics movement. Yes, Margaret Sanger advocated aborting races.

Checked it out and Marie Stopes the founder of the UK's Family Planning Clinics

has the same MO as Margaret Sanger, and they were born within a year of each

other, and they actually met in 1915.



EUGENICS The study or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities

of the human species or human population especially by means as discouraging

reproduction by persons having genetic defects and encouraging reproduction

by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits.


That being said I feel it's way over the top to insinuate that they were bent

on wiping out whole races! .... Looks to me more like encouraging

responsible parenting among the poor and less well educated so that

they could have a better quality of life and less drudgery. More

children drained the life out of a woman, without contraception a woman

could quite easily have as many as 20 children in her life time, and the

more she had the less healthy they would be, and the harder it would

be for her to cope.


Even today the medical profession colludes with families by doing IVF

for people with inheritable deceases and implanting the sex that doesn't

carry it. Women are tested for carrying a 'downs syndrome' foetus and

given the choice to terminate ..... So the everyday ordinary

citizen could be said to be practising eugenics.


>>>>>encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have

inheritable desirable traits

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

If you think abortion is "wrong" and "evil", then don't get one. Problem solved.

And guys why not do more vasectomies? It is painless, takes minutes, It does not affect sex in any way.
It is reversable now also if you decide to have children at some point..that would save the whole argument.

I can't figure out why men don't just do it.