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Discoveries Challenge Beliefs on Humans’ Arrival in the Americas

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posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
That would be Anatomically modern humans? Roughly a couple of hundred thousand years. Sure. Millions? Cool...Prove it.


1) Since you know a bunch of archaeologists then you will know the history of Earth. If you do, you must know the Pangaea continent. Now, have in your mind the Mediterranean sea too. A simple question now, is the Mediterranean sea in the middle of the Earth as its name says? No. Take into consideration Delphi and how they were supposed to be both from Greeks, Egyptians, Latins the navel of Earth. Another simple question, where is the navel on our body? In the middle of it. Is Delphi in the middle of Earth? No. Take into consideration the ancient Egyptian and Greek names of the areas and cities around the Mediterranean sea. Take for example the city Amfissa which means in both languages "the same distance from two sides, the middle of a line". Is Amfissa in the middle of Earth? No. Is it in the middle of the ancient Greece? Neither. Then why the called all these places "Middle of the Earth"? If the human kind lived for only a couple of hundred thousands years, how could the ancients know that these places where in the middle of Earth? We wouldn't! But if the Pangaea continent existed in the same time with the humans, then we would know where the middle of Earth would. Also, please check any documentaries about the Pangaea continent and you will see that they all agree that the Mediterranean sea was in the beginning a huge lake in the middle of the Pangaea continent and that later it became a Sea as we know it today. The last is common knowledge for any archaeologist so your friends should know it.

And 2) I cannot prove in another way that we existed millions of years ago. But could you or anybody else prove the opposite? No. Then "my" theory is still open.


originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
I know a bunch of archaeologists and quite frankly, they are enjoying the debate.


Good for them




posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

pidba.org...

This is a map of clovis fluted artifacts found in sites. Note how many are on the east coast.

Also the solutrean fluted artifacts are the closest match to clovis.

Solutrean is european.

S n F good thread



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: JesusChristwins

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
That would be Anatomically modern humans? Roughly a couple of hundred thousand years. Sure. Millions? Cool...Prove it.

1) Since you know a bunch of archaeologists then you will know the history of Earth. If you do, you must know the Pangaea continent.
Bad start, dude...wrong science. But thanks for your interest.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
More and more evidence is being unearthed all the time that discounts the mainstream historical record yet they haven't updated it yet. The Clovis account is STILL taught as the most valid hypothesis of how humans arrived in the Americas initially. At what point is enough evidence to drop this hypothesis in lieu of a new one? It's like mainstream archaeologists are too stubborn to update their models, possibly because the one they came up with is so neat and tidy.

First, the Clovis First hypothesis didn't address how, it was about who and when.

That is, there's simply no question that people arrived here from Asia crossing the Bering Strait in one way or another. This has been established both genetically and artifactually. Clovis First didn't need to address this certainty.

Second, the only evidence we have - the only evidence - is that people came across the Bering Strait, either walking or in coast-hugging boats.

Obviously, many archaeologists and anthropologists (i.e., the "mainstream,") are looking hard, trying to find evidence of a possible transatlantic migration, or mini-migration, or other possible migration routes. But nothing has been found that compares to the (again) certainty of the Bering crossing.

So, what would you sugggest? Science should simply drop the only theory for migration into the Americas that they have evidence for, a migration that we know for certain took place, in order to take a "wait and see" approach and hope they find something else?

Or do you have a pet theory you wish they would back? Flown here in Vimanas, I take it?

Lastly, Clovis First is no longer taught in college. It was never taught in high school.

Harte

edit on 4/21/2014 by Harte because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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White Caucasian red haired mummies were found in Florida's Windover Bog. The mummies dated to be over 7000 years old.

www.youtube.com...
thats FLORIDA


late to the party, this bunnch, but i don't see this discovery around here much
(its on my sig thread)
hope its of interest as a proof
because until this ( if I'm not mistaken) it was thought the landbridge indians only arrived in flourida about 1000 YBN
edit on Monpm4b20144America/Chicago07 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: Harte
vimonas...lol
there is always the good ol' fashioned boat - some people will go along way for a smoke



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: Danbones
hope its of interest as a proof
because until this ( if I'm not mistaken) it was thought the landbridge indians only arrived in flourida about 1000 YBN

This map shows three pre-Clovis sites in Florida. The fourth dot is (I believe) the Topper site in South Carolina.

Harte



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: Jennyfrenzy

I never realized Patrick Stewart (Satr Trek's Cpt. Picard) was Kennewick man!

On a more relevant note, the Brazilian finds were found (Monte Verde I think) by a woman and she was run out of archeology/anthropology by the boys club.... sad story.

Of course we know people have been around with their current brains for at least a million years... I'd bet much happened we know didly about... in fact, billions of things happened today most of us will never, ever know about!



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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originally posted by: Danbones

White Caucasian red haired mummies were found in Florida's Windover Bog. The mummies dated to be over 7000 years old.

www.youtube.com...
thats FLORIDA




historical-museum.org...

www.fws.gov...

late to the party, this bunnch, but i don't see this discovery around here much
(its on my sig thread)
hope its of interest as a proof
because until this ( if I'm not mistaken) it was thought the landbridge indians only arrived in flourida about 1000 YBN


It's been pretty well established for years now that modern humans have been in Florida for at least 12,000 years and those are just the Clovis related sites. There are other earlier finds as shown by Harte, who beat me to the punch.

I haven't watched the video you posted yet, but in addition to the 6 to 7,000 year old bog mummies located, additional finds at Little Salt Spring in Florida yielded artifacts as old as 13,450 YA including a turtle shell with evidence of being cooked in its shell over 13,000 YA Personally, I was far more interested in the brain matter preserved in some of the remains than I was possible hair coloring.


As has happened in other wetland burials in Florida, such as at the Windover Archaeological Site, brain matter survived in many of the skulls. In the 1970s the overturned shell of an extinct giant land tortoise was found on the 27 meter ledge. A wooden stake had been driven between the carapace and the plastron, and there is evidence of a fire under the tortoise. It appears that the tortoise had been cooked in its shell. The radiocarbon date for the wooden stake was 12,030 years ago, and for a bone from the tortoise, 13,450 years ago. Large numbers of human bones have been recovered from the spring itself, but were not collected under controlled conditions.[9]



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: stirling
Mexico....you forgot that find in Mexico that has been vindicated as over 20,000 yrs


Do you have a link?

Here is a link to the thread/story, I think stirling was referring to...
It regards a site at/around Hueyatlaco, which would be in the vicinity/region of Mexico City, Mexico.

Great topic!
Will get back to reading through the posts.
edit on 4/21/2014 by WanDash because: Forgot the link



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Jennyfrenzy

I never realized Patrick Stewart (Satr Trek's Cpt. Picard) was Kennewick man!

...

Amazing!
That is precisely what I thought.
Wonder who the sketch artist was...



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Now that you mention it, he does! Crazy!!

Totally agree, human have been around for a much longer time than we are lead to believe. Convinced that there were advanced antediluvian civilizations that were lost to the ages, and probably advanced civilizations prior to that. It's unfortunate that we'll never get to see how they lived, what they looked like, the tools they used or their artwork...



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: Harte
...Obviously, many archaeologists and anthropologists (i.e., the "mainstream,") are looking hard, trying to find evidence of a possible transatlantic migration, or mini-migration, or other possible migration routes. But nothing has been found that compares to the (again) certainty of the Bering crossing. ...

Old wives' tale, or not... What about Storks?
Stork migrations might answer the question.

Perhaps they just couldn't get their Bering(s) Strait...




posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:56 PM
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originally posted by: Danbones

White Caucasian red haired mummies were found in Florida's Windover Bog. The mummies dated to be over 7000 years old.

www.youtube.com...
thats FLORIDA


late to the party, this bunnch, but i don't see this discovery around here much
(its on my sig thread)
hope its of interest as a proof
because until this ( if I'm not mistaken) it was thought the landbridge indians only arrived in flourida about 1000 YBN


I knew a gentlemen who taught a class in Florida prehistory a number of years ago. He once told me that if you fly out from the area north of Tampa bay westward into the gulf, you can see where riverbeds were cut into the seabed when the sea level was lower 12000 years ago. And spaced along those submerged riverbeds are shell mounds left there by the paleo indians. In effect, there are a lot of sites on the west coast of florida that were covered by water when the sea level rose, meaning that humans were living there at least 12000 years ago.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 06:49 AM
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a reply to: Harte

No, I don't have a pet theory that I want to push, and I'm not looking to throw the Clovis model out the window either. What I want is for the model to be added to. If it is looking like humans were in the Americas long before the Clovis time frame then talk about it. You don't have to say how they got there if you don't know, but to just ignore the evidence because it doesn't sync with accepted theories is ridiculous.

P.S.: I don't know what high school you went to, but the Clovis model is what they taught me at mine (I graduated in 2003) and it certainly was taught in my Anthropology class in college a few years ago. That's why I know about it.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
P.S.: I don't know what high school you went to, but the Clovis model is what they taught me at mine (I graduated in 2003) and it certainly was taught in my Anthropology class in college a few years ago. That's why I know about it.


That really blows my mind that anyone was still pushing Clovis First as the definitive model in the last decade. I can see it possibly from a high school bio class but at a collegiate level I'm genuinely surprised. The only teacher I ever had who insisted that it was the best and most likely model was my intro to anthropology teacher(who's actual background was geology so I can see why he wasn't quite up to date) but even he quickly admitted he "could be" in error once I brought in some research to show that most of academia was waking to the fact that it was an outdated hypothesis and that was in the late 90's.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Well it was a low level anthropology course on human evolution and it's not like I was going to a tech college; the college for the longest time was a teacher's college. Like I said about high school, I graduated back in 2003, so it shouldn't be surprising that not all science textbooks were updated with newer information at that point.
edit on 22-4-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's a sad testament to the state of public education though when high school textbooks are so outdated that they aren't really preparing you for secondary education when schools are far more interested in standardized test scores than actually educating kids or encouraging them to look. Ito things or question things not included in the standardized tests. Ill just stop there before this turns into a thread derailing rant.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: peter vlar

The standardized testing thing is a shame, but as far as not preparing you for the next level of schooling, there is only so much knowledge that a high school can impart on you before the content becomes too difficult. I'm really not surprised that the Clovis model was taught as valid at my high school (keep in mind this predated the wide spread standardized testing that we have now).

I know this is off topic (since it will be about history instead of science), but I thought I'd share a bit about how information shaving that high schools do to make the content easier to understand can create misunderstandings. My history class just mentioned the duel of Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr as a footnote. Back then I viewed Hamilton with more reverence because he was one of the founding fathers, so I wondered what prompted this duel and that it was a shame that Hamilton died because of it. Then I got to college and took a U.S. History course and found out that he was really a shill for the bankers (instituted the first FED also called the First Bank of the United States) that had the ear of G. Washington (Washington thought of him as a son). Oh and he was a HUGE asshole. Basically he deserved to be shot by Burr.
edit on 22-4-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I can relate to that. When I learned that Hamiltons dubious financial practices precipitated our nations first stock market collapse I was really baffled that I hadn't learned about it previously. I could go on for days about my contempt for Hamilton as a founding father haha. However, I can't relate to not having standardized tests. I went to high school in NY and we had regents exams where the only leeway you really had was on essays but they were still a dream compared to the current state of "mo child left behind" and the madness that followed. But even in 89 when I was taking biology the teacher I had was wise enough to put it into similar terms I became accustumed to in college, i.e. this is what we know currently based on the best evidence and information at hand, but this is science and new data can and likely will alter the current paradigm. He at least encouraged my to read up on and debate why I thought Clovis First might not be the correct interpretation. It was a little daunting for a 15 yr old to put myself on the spot in front of my peers but it was good training for debating strangers on ATS



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