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Democracy dying at the hands of the Left - The Welfare State

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posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247

Those numbers would be interesting to see.

Where can we compare and analyze them?





posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: spurgeonatorsrevenge
Meanwhile conservatives in the legislature and Supreme Court keep advancing corporate rights. Equating money with speech, refusing to enact laws on the elite money machines like banks and insurance companies (regulation), restricting voter rights and generally PRIVATIZING democracy (like they want to do with everything else).

But again, tell us DEMOCRACY is being killed by the left, thanks god the right is preserving it


But the Progressive-Democrats had control of both Chambers in the U.S. Congress for all of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.

How come no fixie?

How come fix no work?



Without a signature from the president then nothing can get fixed. But Bush was too busy giving tax breaks to rich buddies.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

It's very hard to give you direct numbers because there would be an inevitable debate on what qualifies as welfare and what qualifies as a subsidy.

A rough guess I would make, just based on the initial numbers I have seen, is that "welfare" accounts for anywhere form 50-400 billion a year....depending on what programs we add. We spend over 800 billion alone on defense. Add to that the billions we give out in tax-exemptions, tax-breaks and subsidies, it become very hard to defend one while demonizing the other.

Hell, I believe we spend about 150 billion + a year just on corn subsidies.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: spurgeonatorsrevenge
Meanwhile conservatives in the legislature and Supreme Court keep advancing corporate rights. Equating money with speech, refusing to enact laws on the elite money machines like banks and insurance companies (regulation), restricting voter rights and generally PRIVATIZING democracy (like they want to do with everything else).

But again, tell us DEMOCRACY is being killed by the left, thanks god the right is preserving it


But the Progressive-Democrats had control of both Chambers in the U.S. Congress for all of 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010.

How come no fixie?

How come fix no work?



Without a signature from the president then nothing can get fixed. But Bush was too busy giving tax breaks to rich buddies.


Obviously for 2007 and 2008.

But it was the Obama in 2009 and 2010.




posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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create the poor. declare war on the poor. deny rights to the poor, then to everyone. destroy the economy. take away jobs en masse. bail out the bankers responsible. cut off money to their victims. pit the not-poor against the poor. and the poor against the even poorer. make them blame each other for everything. divide. conquer.

the elite 'filthy rich' didn't get that nickname for nothing. they stink. they caused this worldwide depression (not merely a recession and very, very far from over). they should pay more. and more often.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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These are the same problems we are facing every in the west it would seem…..

Those god damn f'ing baby boomers and all that glorious bull # hope the system was painting back then. "HAVE KIDS!!! The more the merrier… don't think ahead…. don't worry, someone else will pay the bill."

And now, here we are with a HUGE generation of greedy people who are used to living the fat life about to retire, leaving behind us, a medium sized generation backed up by the smallest generation the world has seen in 100 years (or more even).

Those #ers build up a system based on a huge pool of contributers…. ofcourse the house of cards is going to fall. But it's not fair. Especially not when the financial initiatives being made openly benefits the rich or upperclass and business instead of the general population.

For the love of the universe…. my government in Denmark saw it more fit to cut in the expenses of schools for kids of the ages 6 - 15, and then go on a spending spree buying new jets for the puny Danish army for 160 billion crowns. That's around 25 billion dollars.
We could have funded our educational system 2-3 times with that money.

And add to that…. the social security system, where the elderly gets taken care of, are facing expendature cuts as well…. cut from what? Well, since my girlfriend works in that sector I know exactly how much time the elderly get during the day here from public service: around 3x 15 minutes. Some get more if they are particularly difficult to care for. But 15 minutes……… "hi, here, bye".

And they want to cut that?! But spend on military aircraft for an army that is PISS!

I tell you know…. more and more people are waking up to see that ALL politicians are puppets. They are merely front targets to hit. The people will adress their anger towards them rather than the disgusting desk jockeys sitting in the back pulling the strings.

Even in our current so-called democratic government, the department directors are all former big business employees or CEOs. They don't look at votes, they don't need to worry about opinion polls…. they have atleast one more row of targets for the people to hit after we are done fleshing out the politicians.

BUT I SAY TO YOU PEOPLE NOW……. stop looking at the targets presented to you by the press, stop looking at the secretaries of this and that department, stop looking at the ministers and those assigned to specific areas of society.

START FINDING YOUR TARGETS amongst those greedy little illoyal and amoral bastards who are NEVER in the spotlight. Those who are put in their office by big business and investment banks and survive year after year while politicians get mowed down.

Those are the real enemies of the people, of you and me. Those are ones whose influence we need to be completely rid off, if we are to return to even the slightest amount of democracy that is worthy of being called such.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: teamcommander



Well then your account of high taxes is wrong, because the claim for such high taxes (as explained by my link) is derived from combining the individual tax rate with the corporate tax rate, which is assumed to have been paid by the rich since they were the primary stock holders. You should read the link I provided.


Like I said, get a good accountant and you can reduce your taxes. Regardless what the tax codes call for you to pay.
The same was done then as it is now.
It will take a conserted effort by congress to change these tax laws to bring about any true equity.
This, I think, will be the first step necessary to save the democratic-republic which we can the U S A. from "we the people".



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: freakjive

Do a little research to see where most of the so called "welfare state" exist...

You might be surprised. Here I'll help you...

reclaimdemocracy.org...

www.taxpayer.net...


www.nationalreview.com...

www.globalresearch.ca...

blaming the poor isn't really denying ignorance that ATS espouses.
edit on 21-4-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 06:51 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: doobydoll
Living in civilized society costs tax money to ensure that no citizen falls below acceptable living standards.

Take away poor people's assistance and your society will end up with millions starving and homeless, a third world society - and you'll STILL be paying taxes. And those who are hungry will simply TAKE what they need, from those who have anything to take.

So don't moan when you get what you wish for.


Ouch. All the sharper for the fact that you are probably right. Should we go down that path, we will swiftly discover how little difference there is between us and the animals catching the crumbs from our tables.

Our grandparents were raised in a poverty-stricken society. Many were sent to the workhouse, kids separated from parents, not because they'd done something wrong, but because their families were starving or they had fallen sick and had no money for treatment.

They wanted a better fairer life and treatment for all in society, they didn't want the next generations suffering in misery as they were. So they fought to change things, FOR ALL OF US.

And now many people say they would be happy to take away everything they gained, in a snap of a finger. Why?

I'm appalled that there are people in today's modern civilized society who would undo all that has been gained, and would reduce today's society to the Victorian hell and injustices that our grandparents and great-grandparents suffered. Why would any sane person want to see masses of people living in such a state again?

Is that the sort of future that today's people really want their kids to look forward to and live in, and their grandkids? And I doubt they will be proud of what this generation is planning for them, like I'm proud of my grandparents for what they did for us.
edit on 21-4-2014 by doobydoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: freakjive
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson.

A lot of you lefties are going to attack me for this thread, but that's okay. I understand it's a tough pill to swallow. The stats come from the end of the 2011 census. You can only multiply these numbers as the welfare receiving population continues to grow exponentially.

86,429,000 workers sustained the benefits of 147,802,000 benefit-receiving individuals! - Yes - 1.7 to 1 was how outnumbered us hard-working individuals were.

This is a nightmare and something our founding fathers realized to be a looming problem if allowed to exist. The fear of big government and the welfare state.


Buried deep on the website of the U.S. Census Bureau is a number every American citizen, and especially those entrusted with public office, should know. It is 86,429,000.

That is the number of Americans who in 2012 got up every morning and went to work — in the private sector — and did it week after week after week.


As the article states, 86M seems like a very healthy number of day to day workers but when coupled with the numbers of blood suckers taking from the system and giving none back, it becomes ugly and fast!

These are the people who built America, and these are the people who can sustain it as a free country. The liberal media have not made them famous like the polar bear, but they are truly a threatened species.


How much more can the 86,429,000 endure?

As more baby boomers retire, and as Obamacare comes fully online — with its expanded Medicaid rolls and federally subsidized health insurance for anyone earning less than 400 percent of the poverty level — the number of takers will inevitably expand. And the number of full-time private-sector workers might also contract.


Read more at the Article Source


People focus on welfare for individuals and blame them for a countries economic ills because the media have 'trained' them up to do that. Why is there no focus on the effect of corporate welfare to the same extent by those who critise welfare for individuals. Why, because its hidden from them so therefore they don't even think it exists.

How can it be that the weakest, poorest and the unskilled, poorly talented people always be responsible for a countries economic decline.

When I went out to work in 1968 corporate tax was 60% to day its 30% in my country, yet individual tax rates have, in real terms, not altered. People who write what the OP has written do not think much. As Hitler said "it is fortunate for the leaders that the people do not think."
edit on 21-4-2014 by learnatic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 08:26 AM
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We are not a democracy, so your post is kind of not relevant. Unless you are part of the Oligarchy, who owns the lawmakers. The only friends you and I have, is each other. The lowest thug in Detroit is more of a friend than the Oligarchy. The Oligarchy wants to destroy and own my family for generations to come.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: Flatfish

How dare people get old and go into retirement, utilizing the S.S. benefit they paid for their entire working career. Furthermore, how dare those old retirees get sick and need the Medicare benefits they paid for their entire working career.


Are you seriously suggesting those old parasites contributed even one dime towards their social security and medical care? You are delusional.

Not only have they already spent all the money that should have been saved for their retirement, but they also expect us to pay back the trillions in debt they ran up over the last few decades.

The old people SHOULD suffer. Of course you are right that the public sector should suffer more, but they have most of the weapons...



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: supermouse

I did not start any of the wars that got us into trillions of debt. I worked from 1968 to 2007 and raised three kids. What are you going to do? Just blame the old and children? Easy prey. The oligarchy has brainwashed you well. And my generation did what they told us to do, just like you.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Well the wars are finished so we can't do anything about them (except supporting Putin's defence of Crimea). But you should at least be campaigning to cut social security and Medicare. You must realize your generation have already spent too much of your childrens' money?

I'm not sure who the oligarchy are or if they're a problem, but I definitely blame the old, not the children.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: supermouse

Done with the wars you say? So you just gonna cut off the veterans and the disabled vets and the vets with PTSD who will need lifetime care? And then the next war when these are not done?



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3

Can't we just not start any more wars? That would save money.

Why do Americans even want to start a war in Europe? It's miles away and no one likes the Germans anyway.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: supermouse

None of the american people want war. We are so sick of it. But what we want does not matter. That is what I am trying to show you young people. The oligarchy OWNS the lawmakers, judges, sheriffs, senators, representatives. Your vote, your voice, is not heard or counted. Beating up on the old, children, the poor, the hard worker, is not thinking for yourself. It is following the program.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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It may be sad to say, and quite cliche but it is 100% true today. We are the cattle and all of government is the farm. We are used, abused and "fed" to think things are just fine. No one...and I mean NO ONE who is honest and logical can say that we are doing well. We are not. The government includes every single paid "servant" including Obama down to the post office. We are powerless to the judges, police, IRS, etc.

But...among us are two types of people. Those who would fight, and those who will leech off the others by way of the government. They will take their Obama-phones, welfare and everything else just like a whore. And THEY are the immediate enemy. If it wasn't for traitors in our midst, we would have a much better chance for change. But with them...with their continued and spreading disease...we are done.

So if you want an enemy, look toward the woman in line at Walmart talking loudly on the smart phone, buying a large screen TV for cash and then paying for her food with an EBT card. Her...her family, her parents...they are the enemy among us. They are the ones who bring the rest of us down. And honestly...we have already lost.

We have polluted our country with them and allowed them to become the majority. The only choice left is to leave this cesspool and let those who deserve it, die with it. American is gone.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Geez, if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't shop at Wal Mart. What a load of BS.

"So if you want an enemy, look toward the woman in line at Walmart talking loudly on the smart phone, buying a large screen TV for cash and then paying for her food with an EBT card. Her...her family, her parents...they are the enemy among us. They are the ones who bring the rest of us down. And honestly...we have already lost. "



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 04:51 PM
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a reply to: freakjive

There is no record of Jefferson saying any such thing. The official Jefferson website says the quote is spurious and appeared for the first time in 1986.

Income inequality is a real problem in America, and is shocking to the rest of the world. Ultra-conservatism and ultra-liberalism is dangerous to liberty, but ultra-conservatives have more money behind them and greater control over the media, despite claims to the contrary. Truth is usually smack dab in the middle of most arguments, but on this one I have to say that the evidence favors the opposite of your view. Our society has so many inequalities built into it, and so much to favor corporate power that the average person is drowning. We no longer have a true capitalist society, we have corporate monopolies who are eliminating all competition, and spending vast amounts of money to influence politicians to pass laws that favor the rich rather than helping the poor.

In the 19th century and early 20th century it was the ultra-rich who believed that they had a moral responsibility to help those less fortunate than themselves. Many of them sponsored or supported laws that would establish programs like welfare, etc... But after the rise of popularity in the books of Ayn Rand the rich began to believe that selfishness was a virtue, and began to follow a different path. Today, the ultra-rich no longer believe they have any moral responsibilities at all, and prefer to hoard their wealth at the expense of the poor and middle class. These aren't "leftist" views (whether leftists support them or not), but are common sense views based upon the realities we see in our society. Selfishness rules both capitalism and communism, but socialist (not to be confused with "communist") policies are less affected by selfishness. This is why many of the laws in America are actually a mix of both capitalism and socialism, and they have proven quite effective. But things have changed in the past 25 years, and not for the better. Our society is becoming weaker, not because of the poor, but because of the rich.

I happen to believe in God, and find the statement in James 5:1-8 quite apropos. It is a prophecy about how the rich would behave in "the last days", which many Christians believe we are now in:

"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure! Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and which has been withheld by you, cries out against you; and the outcry of those who did the harvesting has reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and put to death the righteous man; he does not resist you. Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near."
edit on 23-4-2014 by dovdov because: fixed a spelling error



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