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I am the Patriarchy

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posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:28 AM
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originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: luciddream

How about accusing all rational women as ''abnormal'' or accusing feminism of being ''abnormal'' or some tiresome and ridiculous old notion of those supporting feminism as jackbooted militant lesbians. Because that's original huh?


Oh now you know how it feels to be GENERALIZE huh? *hint men rape*




Do you get your opinions from The Beano perchance?


No clue what that is, not gonna google it either.




You better go, the Kindergarten bell is ringing!


That is not the kindergarten bell, that is Nazi recruiting call.




posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: luciddream

Hey guys, can we all have an ADULT discussion? As in, mature/productive/respectful/intelligent? Please and thanks.
edit on 21-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

Real feminism is about equality, globally.

Just as there are radical women haters who see raping women as part of their religion in some countries, there are radical groups of men haters claiming themselves as ''feminist''.

I am referring to ACADEMIC studies of gender equality, and feminism as it's true description as GENDER EQUALITY, not the EXTREMISM you mentioned.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:44 AM
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a reply to: luciddream

I believe in GENDER EQUALITY which by definition is FEMINISM.

Because of this you either suggested my appearance as ugly and /or suggested I would prefer being called ''handsome'' to ''cute''.

Then you suggested you are are a nazi.

There are rules on ATS, about attacking posters, read them.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

I am a woman and I believe in GENDER EQUALITY (google it) which by definition makes me a FEMINIST (google it).

Because of this you basically accused me of lying about my beliefs and having an ulterior motive and sinister agenda instead.

Presumably you aren't being headhunted by the CIA for detective work or for your powers of deduction (or lack of).

Did you get such an opinion from the ''Revised version of women's opinions and reality- the Satan version''?


You said this:


Modern feminism is NOT about equality. It does not matter how often you and others repeat this lie, it does not make it true. In Western countries, women have the same freedoms and opportunities as men do.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Oh look, here's a post where I KINDLY provided the TRUTH and stats on the matter of GLOBAL INEQUALITY AND THE GLOBAL GENDER GAP, which are professional, unbiased academic studies by renowned institutions such as Harvard and Berkeley University and International Treaties organised by the UN and signed by 180 member states.

All of these studies recognise an international bias against women, including stats for rape etc. I suggest you read them and educate yourself as a means of DENYING IGNORANCE.

Read the links I posted on this page
edit on 21-4-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope


The other day I had the fortunate chance to hold a door open for another human being. But as I did so, the human I opened the door for asserted that such common courtesy wasn’t necessary, that she “didn’t need a man to hold a door open” for her, and the unconscious act of this benign kindness was in some strange fantastical way an instance of tyranny. In apology for my oppressive act, I let the door go and it closed on her mid-stride, thereby allowing her to struggle with her shopping bags. I walked away in silence as she guffawed and shook her head in ironic indignation.


If this happened to you then there was no reason for her to speak to you this way and frankly her oversensitivity is a little unhinged. If this is how she goes through her life, haranguing men who open doors for her, she must be psychology disturbed and frankly, exhausted. I don't think it is something I would do, but letting the door close on her was appropriate; although I don't know why she would laugh (guffaw), it just seems like she manifests an off-kilter response to pretty much everything. I don't know if it is logical or even appropriate to use a one-off with a clearly chemically unbalanced person as a lead in for why feminism as an ideology is bad.

I will say I think there is just as much projection, vitriol and apprehension in your perspective as hers. For example, I'm not sure how she implied to you that your act of common courtesy was an instance of tyranny. Could you be more specific in what she said? Or is the following what you were referring to...?


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
... but because I was generalized based on my gender, I was, before ever having known anything about me, objectified into some tool of an illusory patriarchy, the enemy, destined to perpetuate gender-roles and rape culture throughout society by my very male existence.


So, how in the world do you get from point

A. One kind of loony, obviously bitter woman objecting to you opening the door for her.

to...

B. You are a victim trapped in a gender role perpetuating a false social construct of patriarchy and a conglomerate of perceptions from many different unverified sources regarding feminism. I'm confused.

If one crappy encounter spins you off into this you have just as many issues as she does. She was obviously projecting onto you an assumption (at the very least) that you felt she wasn't capable of opening a door because of her gender, which is stupid and wrong. However, you are dumping onto her a whole boat load of perceptions she may very well not have. Those are coming from you. Not feminism. You.


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
What a strange consequence of my being unfortunate enough to be born a certain way. By my being there, I was seen as merely in the way, and even a hurdle standing before the ideals of this woman’s ideological background.


Once again... What? She got snippy about the door. Your gender probably had something to do with that but "a hurdle standing before the ideals of this woman's ideological background". You're right, it is strange, but most of it is coming from you.


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope It would be unnecessary to point out the contradiction and double-standards.


I think the irony is lost on you too actually but that's people for you.



originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
... or that I should be a feminist, so that I can, like them, promote one gender at the expense of my own.


Most people think that feminism is about promoting women over men. This is not what I was taught and at its inception this was not true. I have to admit that there is contemporarily a vocal minority (that may in time, become the majority) that sure makes a lot of Women are Better Than Men kind of noises. While I think that you are presenting a far more drastic and histrionic perspective than is real, the observation that feminism puts men in gender roles and often applies negative attributes to them is becoming dismayingly more prevalent. The patriarchy still exists, I think you are dead wrong about that, but as gains are made some feminists are beginning to respond and spout rhetoric that is more about dominance than equality, and that, is a valid observation. Categorizing the current movement by that vocal minority is still not presenting the truth of the matter however.


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
So be it. If I am seen as the enemy before being in any way judged on my individual merit, I will gladly play that role for them. Such roles are required to perpetuate the irrationality and contradiction found in marginalizing an entire gender based on specific gender-centric notions. Why not support and justify feminism by acting how they say we act? Why not let them dictate our gender roles and values, and in turn, allow them the opportunity to oppress and objectify their fellow human beings?


I think you are trying to point out the hypocrisy of the perspective of some feminists. Which, okay... That is valid enough, but there is a ranty, almost petulant aspect to this that is going to put people off, and was difficult for me to wade through to get to what (I think) you meant.



originally posted by: LesMisanthrope One might wonder that if society became a matriarchy—the obvious goal of feminist institutions—if they would support masculinism on the same grounds of inequality.


Once again, the goal of feminism is not a matriarchy, it is equality. However, I think that if your fear here came to pass that (because people are people) masculinity would be oppressed in a similar way.


originally posted by: LesMisanthropeHowever, no patriarchy exists here friends. There is only oligarchy...


The top of the oligarchy is a patriarchy. The "corporate state" is still by and large a boys club. I don't see your dreaded matriarchy coming to pass any time soon.


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I am the patriarchy, guilty by association. The enemy. You have already assigned me as such. See to it that when you gain the power you lust after, what you nonchalantly call “equality”, that you see me as unequal. Objectify me. Deny me based on my nature. Set me free of my sin.



Once again, this sounds petulant, and drifts into threatening. It sounds like you are saying that if you are dominated you no longer have any accountability for your actions. That you are justifying behaving as the worst-case-scenario presented out of resentment, which is weak and wrong.

I understand your frustration with what you experienced with crazy-door-lady, and maybe even what you are seeing overall. You have some good points, but your delivery is similar to those feminists that are afraid of and disparage men. Sometimes mimicking your opponents tactics simply causes both sides become entrenched in their perspective, refusing to see accountability and the whole thing disintegrates into a battle of the sexes that is primal in its brutality. Equality is impossible in a never-ending struggle for dominance. No one wins.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth
 




What about this fellow? How will feminism help him?



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

You deduced all that from an ATS post?

Maybe it didn't even happen, perhaps it was posted as a way of making arguments.

Perhaps, if it did, there were many things unmentioned, for example he could have had an erection, winked at her, looked down her top or looked too shady to walk in front of, perhaps she didn't want him walking behind her as she seen it as threatening, perhaps he looked lecherous or creepy, or said or gestured something suggestive.

So many possibilities yet you also jumped to a conclusion.

Have men become crazy or is this the blinkered misogynist thread?

Now from your post I could say a whole load of stuff about you, I could call you ''psychologically damaged, narrow minded, egotist, harbouring delusions, hatred for women and an Oedipus complex''. Would you think that as okay, you know forming strong opinions of others based on, well a post, in a forum, or perhaps because you were mentioned in a post on a forum, you know in the style you just did, let's call it: ''instant psychology by conspiracy forum - get your analysis here'' .


here's your opinion:


If this happened to you then there was no reason for her to speak to you this way and frankly her oversensitivity is a little unhinged. If this is how she goes through her life, haranguing men who open doors for her, she must be psychology disturbed and frankly, exhausted. I don't think it is something I would do, but letting the door close on her was appropriate; although I don't know why she would laugh (guffaw), it just seems like she manifests an off-kilter response to pretty much everything. I don't know if it is logical or even appropriate to use a one-off with a clearly chemically unbalanced person as a lead in for why feminism as an ideology is bad.

edit on 21-4-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:13 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

I think that's a fair critique. I do write in vitriol and hyperbole. I cannot deny that.

However, I don't agree that there is a patriarchy nor a matriarchy. To say that there is no women in power and that power is designated to the male gender is beyond superficial, and is likely the result of certain ideologies.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Posting a youtube video of some guy as a counter argument against GLOBAL ACADEMIC STUDIES on GLOBAL INEQUALITY and the GLOBAL GENDER GAP and all the statistics is as ridiculous as showing a video of a white kid being slapped in the face as defense for black slavery.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope
It depends on elites on that society want to give which gender more power...
edit on 21-4-2014 by candlestick because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The "hatred" is for feminism not any particular gender.


Then the hatred you experience is hatred of misandry, not of men... *eyeroll* You're trying to have it both ways.

I wonder, how many times have you opened a door for a woman (and even a feminist) and she graciously walked through it? Did you feel a need to write a thread extolling the virtues of feminism? ... But you have this one experience and you take such obvious offense that you feel it necessary to write a thread and blame "feminism" and play the victim and seek emotional comfort from others who agree with you. It's really silly.

When a man opens the door for me, I say, "Thank you, sir". And I'm about as staunch a feminist as you'll find.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: redhorse

I think that's a fair critique. I do write in vitriol and hyperbole. I cannot deny that.

However, I don't agree that there is a patriarchy nor a matriarchy. To say that there is no women in power and that power is designated to the male gender is beyond superficial, and is likely the result of certain ideologies.



Then why is the thread of your title "I am the Patriarchy"?



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: luciddream

I believe in GENDER EQUALITY which by definition is FEMINISM.

Because of this you either suggested my appearance as ugly and /or suggested I would prefer being called ''handsome'' to ''cute''.

Then you suggested you are are a nazi.

There are rules on ATS, about attacking posters, read them.


I find it hilarious that gender equality can supposedly be summarized in a word that is derived from only one gender. That's the definition of irony, right there. Why not call it "androgynism"? At least that word incorporates both genders rather than contradicting itself in the same breath.
edit on 21-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
If feminism were truly about "equal" treatment, it would be called "humanism".


Women have a history of oppression. Women have a vast history of being treated unfairly. The "movement" was named for the idea of treating women EQUALLY to men. If the playing field had been equal, then yes, humanism would be a good name, but then there would be no need for a movement.


Feminism, by definition, draws the line at anything NOT female, and that is discrimination.


In your mind, perhaps. But the truth is men fight for the equal treatment of women, too, and they are most definitely feminists. Feminism is the belief in the need to secure rights and opportunities for women equal to those of men.



The point being, I'm not saying I want women to be oppressed, I am saying I want them to be fair.


So do I. But you can't take one angry woman with a chip on her shoulder and use that to represent the REAL feminists out there, like myself and my husband.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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It is just a thread written by a misanthrope!!
Isn't it ironic??
edit on 21-4-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Because of the history of the suppression of women, FEMINISM is the term that seeks to address such INEQUALITY and aims for GENDER EQUALITY. Androgyny is something else entirely.

Men can and often are FEMINISTS also.

Would you argue the name for the African-American Civil Rights Movement, that also sought and seeks equality, calling it the American Civil Rights Movement kind of misses the point don't you think?
edit on 21-4-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Women have a history of oppression. Women have a vast history of being treated unfairly. The "movement" was named for the idea of treating women EQUALLY to men. If the playing field had been equal, then yes, humanism would be a good name, but then there would be no need for a movement.


You're only proving my point. This feminism movement is only concerned for the well-being of females, rather than the whole of humanity, and that is discrimination. Fighting discrimination with discrimination is adding fuel to the fire. Eye for an eye and all that.


In your mind, perhaps. But the truth is men fight for the equal treatment of women, too, and they are most definitely feminists. Feminism is the belief in the need to secure rights and opportunities for women equal to those of men.


If you are using the rights of men as a measuring stick for your progress, why call it feminism? I hadn't realized that the perfect state of freedom and equality was characterized by the individual genders therein. Human rights are human rights regardless of what you're packing.


So do I. But you can't take one angry woman with a chip on her shoulder and use that to represent the REAL feminists out there, like myself and my husband.


You sound like humanists, not feminists. Allow me to explain - if men were to have the same rights as women did in the 1750's, would you then fight for women to have those rights as well? Or would you fight to improve the men's legal stature? That's the difference between humanism and feminism. Feminism fights for females, humanism fights for everyone.

Don't limit the "rights" you're willing to fight for, or you're just making more wrongs.

And LesMis makes an excellent point:


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: theabsolutetruth
 


I posted it to see what your equal rights feminism will do to help him. Can you answer?



What does your equal rights feminism do to help your husband?
edit on 21-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

When a man opens the door for me, I say, "Thank you, sir". And I'm about as staunch a feminist as you'll find.


Same here. I have no problem with someone holding the door for me, regardless of their gender. It's just a nice thing to do for another human being. I am a feminist who was raised by a feminist mother, and I know she also has no problem with a man (or a woman) holding a door open for her.

There are extremists in every movement. The Op shouldn't let that color his opinion on the validity on the whole movement.




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