I am the Patriarchy

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Here are the facts.

The world is currently biased against women, it is changing, more people are realising that feminism aka EQUALITY is the way and are consciously making an effort in their everyday choices that makes this happen.

You were offended by a woman who said something you didn't like, regardless of the bigger picture of how a patriarchal society might have affected her view of men and didn't consider that her abrasive comment to you could have been valid (eg you could have looked like an attacker she had) or anything else.

Now I am sure there have been times men upset you yet did you come to ATS to bleat about it, calling them patriarchal or part of an agenda against other men, no you probably ignored it and considered the guy might have had a bad day.

Yet because it was a woman (who you first called a ''human being'' then when she annoyed you you called her a ''woman'') you immediately jumped to a conclusion that her words to you, (which weren't a big deal in the first place, get over it!) during a very brief impersonal encounter (and with no further insight into her past, her life events, her views and opinions), you completely dismissed her as representing an ideology instead of a human with emotional responses (which is how you would have viewed a man if he upset you).

Regardless of your intentions, you ceased to think of her as a human with valid emotions.

Then you went on ATS, seemingly scathing that a woman should have voiced her emotional response to you in some way you did not like. You suggested you were a victim of feminism.

You failed to recognise the large scale issues of society and the demeaning of women as part of that woman's emotional response to you.

You then ranted about feminism on ATS, suggesting it as some ignorant, man hating nonsense.

I pointed out to you the validity of feminism and the human and emotional aspect of the encounter and that you should have seen it as just that, a human interaction, I also pointed out the inequalities of the world and how this has negatively affected womankind.

I also said I believe feminism is EQUALITY.

Your response to me was suggesting yourself as a victim of feminism (which you previously attempted to demonise) and went all gung ho on a straw man argument accusing me of being part of your (warped) opinion of feminism and being part of a problem of women. Regardless of all the things I wrote on my opinions of feminism.

That to me looks exactly like denial of facts from you, lack of social skills, playing victim and perhaps some deep rooted resentment of feminism and male egocentricity. Also lack of being able to read posts on ATS properly and making false accusations and presumptions of women.

You brought it to ATS, presumably looking for appeasement of your ego, and solidarity against feminism. You won't get that from me. Real feminism isn't nefarious, it is ESSENTIAL, whether you like it or not.

Only a true feminist would see the OP and blame victim(aka door holder) and praise the predator(the women who decided labelled herself).

In Canada, people hold door for anyone, soon as i see a glimpse of another shadow behind me in the corner of my eye, my hands automatically hold the door.

Only if i knew a feminist would be behind, i would slam the door on her feminist face "im sorry, i thought you would have the same reflex as a man".(if someone does this to you normal ladies, blame the feminist, contrary to feminism beliefs, men are having less and less respect for you because of feminism)

I can't believe i missed the UofT thing, considering im only 10 mins way from it(Scarborough campus)

Feminism is a hate group.

edit: I actually wanna see feminism get overpowered, to a point where it slowly strips away rights of men, then people will see a emergence of true hate group toward females to counter the tilt.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Men are not "encouraged" to join the Nursing profession either. There are far more female nurses compared to male nurses, and one could say that the atmosphere of the profession is very feminine, which might discourage men from pursuing such a career.

This is the year 2014: most women have the same opportunity to embark in a political career as do most men. It comes down to how hard they are willing to work and whether they are resilient enough to handle the stresses of the job.

If we were truly living in a patriarchy, women would not have the option to embark on a political career.

Perhaps those of uninformed and uneducated opinions of gender inequality and feminism should actually learn about the issue instead of showing themselves as ignorant, uneducated and foolish.

en.wikipedia.org...

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.[3]

www.discovery.com...

"No society treats its women as well as its men." That's the conclusion from the United Nations Development Programme, as written in its 1997 Human Development Report [source: UNDP]. Almost 50 years earlier, in 1948, the United Nations General Assembly had adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which specified that everyone, regardless of sex, was entitled to the same rights and freedoms. The 1997 Human Development Report, as well as every Human Development Report that followed, has highlighted that each country falls short of achieving that goal. The severity of the shortfall varies by country; Nordic countries such as Sweden, Norway and Iceland, for example, are routinely hailed as having the smallest gender gaps. In the developing world, however, women face unfairness that can be hard to fathom. In this article, we'll take a trip around the world to examine 10 examples of gender inequality.

www.womankind.org.uk...

www.weforum.org...

www.globalissues.org...

The Global Gender Gap 2013 -World Economic Forum, Harvard University, Berkeley University

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Nature is biased against females, not society. It is not the fault of men that they tend to be born with more favourable attributes than women when it comes to establishing and maintaining power.

Modern feminism is NOT about equality. It does not matter how often you and others repeat this lie, it does not make it true. In Western countries, women have the same freedoms and opportunities as men do.

If the woman mentioned in the OP had been mistreated by men in her past, that does not give her the right to assume the author of this thread was guilty by association (by virtue of sex alone) - which is something you seem to condone. It would be like me having a distrust of all women because I know several women that have not been trustworthy to me throughout my life. And, it was the woman in the OP that first brought ideology into the equation, not the author.

Playing the victim is a classic feminist trait, by the way. Ironic you would accuse somebody at the receiving end of feminist ideology of doing so.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I prefer the EDUCATED opinion of international scholars, studies and statistics, as well as my own experiences and that of others, to your opinion, thanks all the same.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

It's cute you assume I am not educated on the topics of social issues such as feminism just because you disagree with my views. Sad, but cute nonetheless.

Of course you prefer the "opinion of international scholars, studies and statistics" that AGREE WITH YOU, but you are not so receptive to the ones that don't.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

It's cute you assume I am not educated on the topics of social issues such as feminism just because you disagree with my views. Sad, but cute nonetheless.

Of course you prefer the "opinion of international scholars, studies and statistics" that AGREE WITH YOU, but you are not so receptive to the ones that don't.

Whoa be careful there. Cute is something you would call a normal female. Its a hate word for feminist.

Maybe call them handsome?

a reply to: luciddream

Yawn.

How about accusing all rational women as ''abnormal'' or accusing feminism of being ''abnormal'' or some tiresome and ridiculous old notion of those supporting feminism as jackbooted militant lesbians. Because that's original huh?

Do you get your opinions from The Beano perchance?

You better go, the Kindergarten bell is ringing!

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Which part of the Global Gender Gap 2013- Harvard and Berkeley University report are you disagreeing?

Perhaps you should call Harvard or perhaps Berkeley and remind them that your male opinion thinks differently to their qualified academic studies?

Are you also against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights part of which encompasses the International Bill of Rights for Women

CEDAW: The International Bill of Rights for Women

The Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women defines the right of women to be free from discrimination and sets the core principles to protect this right. It establishes an agenda for national action to end discrimination, and provides the basis for achieving equality between men and women through ensuring women's equal access to, and equal opportunities in, political and public life as well as education, health and employment. CEDAW is the only human rights treaty that affirms the reproductive rights of women.

The Convention has been ratified by 180 states, making it one of the most ratified international treaties. State parties to the Convention must submit periodic reports on women’s status in their respective countries. CEDAW’s Optional Protocol establishes procedures for individual complaints on alleged violations of the Convention by State parties, as well as an inquiry procedure that allows the Committee to conduct inquiries into serious and systematic abuses of women's human rights in countries. So far the Protocol has been ratified by 71 States.

Anyone Can Stand Up for the Rights of Women

Any individual, non-governmental organization, group or network may submit communications (complaints/appeals/petitions) to the Commission on the Status of Women containing information relating to alleged violations of human rights that affect the status of women in any country in the world. The Commission on the Status of Women considers such communications as part of its annual programme of work in order to identify emerging trends and patterns of injustice and discriminatory practices against women for purposes of policy formulation and development of strategies for the promotion of gender equality.

It really breaks my heart to see so much anger and hatred between men and women here.

I had an experience long ago that was similar to the O,P only it was racial in nature instead of being about gender. I, a white girl, was playing basketball at a party and a black man walked up and asked where I got the ball. In my "party mode", I smiled and teased, "Who wants to know"? He became VERY offended and angrily walked away.

Did I take offense?
Did I tell myself that all black people were like this?
Did I blame an entire race or the racial equality movement?
Did I let anger and hatred for the entire race fester?
Did I bitch and complain to others and call myself a "victim" of "reverse racism"?
Hell NO!

I took into account the HISTORY of relationship between blacks and whites through the years and realized that the black man MAY have experienced a history of prejudice that I will never know and I felt EMPATHY for him. I went after him to apologize, but he was out of sight.

I will never forget that experience because it taught me a valuable lesson. What happened that day wasn't about ME at all. It was about HIM and HIS experiences of life.

OP, I would hope you'd be able to see that your experience wasn't about YOU. But if you feel more righteous making it about you and your victimhood of feminists the world over, then you didn't learn anything from it.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Lack of social skills now? as you spew about your conjecture and ad hominem? You must be great at a party. But allow me to appease my ego a bit more as I play the victim, and let’s stick to attacking the ideas here if you’re able.

Suffering isn’t reserved for one gender, no matter how much you try to twist it. Society doesn’t pick and choose based on gender. The powerful do not decide, based on gender, who they will subjugate. It’s such a ridiculous notion. What do you say of the boys raped and molested by women? What do you say of the physical and emotional abuse of men by women? Is it the woman’s gender that is to blame in these instances? Is this the patriarchy at work? Of course not. Feminism wants nothing to do with these cases, because it wants nothing to do with equality.

Guess what, women work in society too. Why do they not receive any of your righteous indignation? There are plenty of women in corporate and political power, and the number is rising. There’s plenty of women who run magazines, television, large-scale corporations and who work throughout all facets of media and advertising. Do they immediately wash their hands of your supposed patriarchy and their bias against women?

Last, how is it that 50% of the population is guilty, while the other is completely innocent? How is it that only 50% suffer, while the rest enjoy their rights and the perfect life? How are you able to draw that line while keeping a straight face?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It really breaks my heart to see so much anger and hatred between men and women here.

There's no hatred between men and women in feminism. There's hatred of men by women. Basing judgements on gender is completely irrational, like basing judgements on race or social standing. It just doesn't work that way.

I hope next time you'd have empathy with someone based on their individual merit, rather than the color of their skin.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
There's no hatred between men and women in feminism.

Have you READ this thread??? There is plenty of hatred toward women - simply for being feminist - for wanting equality and struggling the best they know how in order to claim what's rightfully theirs.

You opine that there's no room for you in feminism, simply because of your gender. You couldn't be more wrong. You clearly don't know what feminism is. My husband is a devout feminist. He understands the HISTORY of the relationship between genders - something you have yet to understand.

Basing judgements on gender is completely irrational, like basing judgements on race or social standing. It just doesn't work that way.

I agree with you that it's irrational, but it DOES happen. Women DO get pissed at men for the history. Men get pissed at women for the history. It happens both ways. In gender and in race. In a perfect world, maybe it wouldn't be that way, but look around... This place and its inhabitants are FAR from perfect.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Dark Ghost

I prefer the EDUCATED opinion of international scholars, studies and statistics, as well as my own experiences and that of others, to your opinion, thanks all the same.

As a person who live in a country Sweden that have according to your map have least gender inequality, I do not agree with you and see how Ultra Feministic forces use feminism to get unfair advantage while saying they are against all unfair advantage. But then I have seen cases where people do the same with the minority card trying to get unfair advantage based on their culture/skin color.

I hate all duality separations be it gender/race/sexual preference between adults/religion. It is uncivilized and barbaric to allow what I call ego garmentation to make any difference and judge people on it.

I will not stand for any duality crap like this be it female over male or male over female. Time for humanity to grow out of this stupidity.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Feminism is not equality, or it would be called 'equalism'. Or better yet, humanism. Because all humans deserve exactly the same rights and consideration unless they have proven they are unwilling to do so. In which case, they are dealt with appropriately on a case-by-case basis. Feminism is about the exaltation of females in order to compensate for their historical oppression.



I have no patience for feminism, because it fails to observe the rights of anything that is not expressly female. It's exclusive, and that is by definition discriminatory. I'm all humanism. As a matter of fact, I'm all animism. All shades and forms of life should be treated with respect and dignity. To do any less is to discriminate, and that's where the hypocrisy starts. Full stop.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

You have DECIDED that feminism is about women wanting equality when it's convenient for them and wanting "special treatment" when that's convenient.... In reality, that is not feminism at all and anyone who says it is, is just mistaken.

Feminism is about EQUAL treatment. In life, the military, in the home, the job, the post office, the grocery store.

Not all women get it right, but if you have to pick out stupid pictures of angry, militant women to make your point, then you don't get it either.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Have you READ this thread??? There is plenty of hatred toward women - simply for being feminist - for wanting equality and struggling the best they know how in order to claim what's rightfully theirs.

Yes I read and wrote the thread. There are male feminists you know. The "hatred" is for feminism not any particular gender. Hating a gender is irrational and based on zero grounds.

Modern feminism is not what it represents, or rather the vocal majority, seem to hunt down men and kill them for being men.

Or call men a "potential rapist".

heck, there is one defending the feminist idea on this thread.

equality means they should be fighting for equality, instead, they rather take keep their special treatment(in which the other sec suffers, divorce, alimony, child custody etc) but only complain and about the inequality that they suffer, some take it one step further and step into men's rights.

This feminism is everything but equal.

Maybe one day when they investigate why divorce, custody, spousal abuse are always a one sided win.

Maybe then i will care for it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: AfterInfinity

You have DECIDED that feminism is about women wanting equality when it's convenient for them and wanting "special treatment" when that's convenient.... In reality, that is not feminism at all and anyone who says it is, is just mistaken.

Feminism is about EQUAL treatment. In life, the military, in the home, the job, the post office, the grocery store.

Not all women get it right, but if you have to pick out stupid pictures of angry, militant women to make your point, then you don't get it either.

If feminism were truly about "equal" treatment, it would be called "humanism". As in, equal rights for all humans regardless of gender, sexuality, race, political affiliation, class, etc. That means fighting for EVERYONE'S rights and not just the rights of women. Feminism, by definition, draws the line at anything NOT female, and that is discrimination. Humanism draws the line at anything not human, and that's why I say I am animist, because that means I draw the line at anything not living. If it is alive, it has rights, even if it can't speak to defend them. The point being, I'm not saying I want women to be oppressed, I am saying I want them to be fair.

I was raised by women, I'm not prejudiced against them. But I do see prejudice in feminism because they are, as I said, definitively drawing the line at anything that is not female. Oh, you're not a woman? Then our organization does not represent your rights. Oh, you lack female anatomy? Then we're not fighting for you, because by definition, we're fighting for the WOMEN and the WOMEN ONLY. And that is discrimination. I cannot make this any clearer.

Fight for everyone, not just yourselves. And no, Benevolent, I'm not talking about you personally. I do not play favorites. Sometimes people don't understand, but that's okay with me, as long as they are willing to listen. Because listening is the first step to understanding.