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Breaking: Bundy family unearths BLM mass cattle grave

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posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 07:16 AM
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a reply to: DaMod

I have been doing a fair amount of research on this as well... BTW look under animal control laws etc. It is much more helpful, I was getting the same problems as you until I started looking under more of the animal control issues.

What the government has a right to do is to defend its life... if an officer is in immediate danger they can protect themselves, but that all precaution should be taken for the welfare of the animal. ie: you cannot intend to kill it - it has to be an immediate danger to your life.

That said, precautions must also be taken that the proper and qualified people are the ones doing the remove to impound order. There should be trained personnel on hand etc. This is where I am seeing in animal control laws the BLM was not careful enough with their duty.

Those cowboys doing the round up really didn't seem the best, my husband and I both commented on that at the time... they should have been able to round up every single cow in one day with all the help they had on hand! 2 max if they were too spread out... but they had every available convenience known to man to help them... it was a mess from the beginning, and I am not sure why on that... if your a cowboy for hire you really should know what the heck your doing, yet these did not seem to have the first clue.




posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

look at my above post^^^

and then begin looking under animal control laws concerning "seize and remove to impound" orders from the court.

This is where you find how the situation should have been handled, if mistakes were made, and if the state had a right to kill an animal due to immediate danger to one's life. (which they did have the right, but only in that instance)

Once they were impounded, then the state would have decided what to do and where to go from there with the animal, but the seize and remove to impound was just for that, get them off state property and corralled in another location that is suitable for them, until the court makes a further order on what to do with the animals themselves.

The intent with a seize and remove to impound order concerning live animals, is ALWAYS to do everything in your power to preserve the life of the animal. This is what I read and how I have read it. If you look into it you may see more, but I am on vacation and my heart is only partway into this.
edit on 22-4-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 07:39 AM
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a reply to: Peekingsquatch

I completely disagree.

They would have been sold at auction, and they would have sold for market value.

They would have gone for about the average, some farmers get more if their known to be well cared for etc and some farmers get less, but they would have sold at their value on open market. The people who bid know their exact worth.. and they are willing to pay what these cows are worth. No one goes to an auction looking for a deal, (that would be a pneumonia cow) they go ready to pay what the cows are worth.


here is something to look at for fun, and maybe to learn a couple things : Reports

I do know that his would have been a special auction since apparently he raised a pedigreed stock, and of course all his were not slaughter cattle. So his would have been a special farm auction, and because of his stock if he is known to take good care of them etc would have gotten top dollar... at auction.

and i have seen cattle sell for a very high price at special auction just because the locals knew the farmer and knew his herd was especially well taken care for. So- Bundy's actual reputation as a rancher coming from those closest to him, will actually help (or hurt) determine price at auction.
edit on 22-4-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 07:40 AM
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Quote from BLM Facebook. "The BLM's mission is to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations."

They need to change it to...

"The BLM's Mission is to sustain mass graves, stop diversity, and productivity of public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations."



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: Peekingsquatch

Appalling. I'd rather they got auctioned off to Canada by some cronies.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: Peekingsquatch

Indeed, I have been following Harry and Family's involvement here. I'll be honest though, I'm tracking that as something of a secondary story to the main one. The main one being 20+ years of court cases, injunctions, decisions and actions to remove this mans animals from open range land. Harry could be in the middle or it or he could be impeached tomorrow.

It won't change the fact Bundy's cattle WILL be removed from that land. It may be a month from now or it may be many months from now....but the idea that he won is silly and really, wishful thinking of folks who have never had direct dealings with the Federal Government.

No one..ever...ever..'wins' against the Feds in a confrontation like that. Feds don't retreat. They strategically redeploy until finding a new way to attack. When they have the full legal weight of the law behind them...they just don't stop..and this is far from over with Harry Reid being just a sideshow to the main issue.

The thing with this is...they recieved 12 months to do this in. They could reappear next Spring with 0 notice and 0 work done with anyone local....and be 100% legal in bringing a thousand men with a convoy of equipment stretching miles. (Waco damn near was that size for vehicles and men in the trip to the place). They could be clever and wait patiently until a series of hard freeze days next winter....when storms may literally have the limited access routes into that area all but closed in the time they need to worry.

So..you mention Harry Reid, and he's no question in being a part of this whole mess. He sure is. However..He's just the crooked politician in the middle of something that started around the time George HW Bush was giving the Oval Office to Bill Clinton.
edit on 22-4-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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I got one thing to say, and I speak for those who cant

Animal abusers should be shoot...

I seen my potion of animal abuse, and I get furious on those low life scum that cant respect other living thing then their own blob of meat.

eat all the meat you want, but be sure the animal you are eating have been treated well.
I speak of experience, I have a dark past on a big farm
edit on 22-4-2014 by Spacespider because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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Not sure what to make of Jon Stewart's explanation of the Bundy situation... I know that Comedy Central and The Daily Show aren't really the MSM outlets we think of, but I do find it odd seeing as he is making the Bundy folks and militia look crazy...

thedailyshow.cc.com...



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I totally agree, they will probably wait until things die down and most of the people are under assumption the whole thing is over before they make a move.

I've said before, I only hope Bundy doesn't have to become a martyr and this could be resolved without it becoming another Waco et .



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The government does not always win in the end although victory can be bitter, Randy Weaver did win in court versus the government. Government had warrants, long siege, large public protests happened - loose similarities here to me of course the internet was not a part of that incident.

The information available says militia members are using a three month outlook for presence at the Bundy ranch. The governments window to use force is small as doing so later would reflect badly on mid-term election season which is already troubled for the democrats.

I believe but have no proof that the current back down was predicated by the possibility of a much larger response onsite by the public had shooting started - my guess starts over 50,000 citizens, basically they were not quite ready for an insurrection which I bet by monitoring was a palpable concern of government officials.

Because of the potential response I see difficulty in the government actually enforcing its court orders in the near term - in the far term they'll seem acting on vendetta no matter the legalities and either they will be ready to accept damage of an insurrection or clock will run out on the court orders.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

You're correct I'm sure. I've been getting tidbits here and there for a few days and just sharing it along the way. On Hannity yesterday they mentioned the auction,(first I had heard of it) and that some official in Utah cancelled the transportation over state lines around the same time the BLM stood down.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: Peekingsquatch

It's not the reasoning I'm sure you or Bundy supporters want to hear, but this will never be Waco anyway. Tactically speaking.....protesters are the perfect dream of ducks in a gallery to take down like a game. It's part of why I've shaken my head and I just cannot take those people seriously. Forget the fact, Bundy lives within a GIANT military base for all intents and purposes of what Nevada basically is for the United States. 84% of it by volume.

Just look at the situation there. It's a valley. Did ANY of the protesters have high ground over watch? Did even ONE think to try?? We know the opposition had high ground with rifles carrying the reach to do whatever needed done. That means it was never an uncontrolled protest. Not REALLY. Only within the lines they chose to allow it..and so will any future one. As soon as that line is crossed? Well...... We saw a few snipers in cover positions. When I see where a couple DOZEN were...I'll feel we got some hint of what was really deployed.

If people are going to stand and resist...all I'd say is think on the same terms the group will be destroyed by. Tactical concerns. Cover....and having some ABOVE view to know when it's about to happen.

One other BIG concern? Posse Comitatus isn't anything like it once was. In fact, in practical terms, it's followed for form and public relations more than a NEED to. (I'll be happy to support that, but anyone can find the series of EO's and congressional riders over the last 15 years which clarifies all that.) SO ... Worse come to worse? If you took the national map and LOOKED FOR a place that would be as stacked against resistance as one could imagine, while as friendly to Government forces as they could ever ask for? There ARE a couple places worse than Mesquite Nevada ...but VERY FEW.

There are a whole lot of reasons, including the legal facts themselves, I'm very sketchy on this whole thing. Carefully considered reasons. That 'no win unless allowed to win' aspect is near top of my 'bad bad feeling' lists for everything about this.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

"Ducks in a gallery..." No kidding. Look at OWS!



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Wrabbit, I read some firsthand accounts that claimed the Cowboys and Militia did flank the snipers just prior to the cattle release on the 12th.

I will have to go back and find those links but the descriptions were from people on the ground that day.

As far as battleground is concerned, what makes you think it would be isolated at the Bundy ranch? IMHO that would be just an opening battle like Lexington or Concord.


edit on 22-4-2014 by Phoenix because: add comment



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:42 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix

Whoa... Tell me the last time the Government lost? On anything? They may lose in court and that is Government vs. Government that has it's own rules and it's very own dynamics.

However, Ruby Ridge was a TOTAL LOSS for Randy Weaver. Ask that man if he thinks he WON anything when he takes time to give memorial to the graves of his wife...and son. He got something back for what he lost, in ways that can never touch the true loss he endured....but he lost almost everything he had in life which mattered. It was wrong, it was unjustified and it NEVER should have happened. Ruby Ridge was one of the few I'd say largely lived up to what it looked like.

Also, the Government window here is 12 months. That isn't arbitrary like prosters with lives to lead and homes to tend, waiting a year in limbo. The Government sought and got notice allowing total freedom of action on this matter for 1 calendar year. Their first attempt...and that's all this was...came almost immediately to that authorization. It failed. (as they lost some of the early Occupy confrontations, too). They're off learning and planning how they can never lose again on this, before doing it again. I'd bet hard money on that.


Okay.. I'm totally confused. 50,000 is a number coming form what? What may be at some future fight or are you saying the one we just saw had 50,000 men and women under arms or within the group who was, and prepared to stand?

If the American people ever muster 50,000 people in one place at one time, armed and with an attitude open to fighting? Uncle Sam will take that as the military issue it represents and respond in kind, I'd guess. That isn't a protest, it's the kernel of insurrection. I have no doubt, they'd attack it as that.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix

Dammit. Is everyone who was carrying a gun that day, on both sides. Now to be forever labeled a sniper?

Sniper implies, they were from a distance, hidden to take shots at those who can't see them.

Yes, I remember reading an article that did state some of the Bundy supporters, who were armed, did gather at the opening of the pens where cattle were being released from to escort the cattle safely out of the area.

Des



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: Phoenix

I'd be very interested to read those, given personal knowledge of the topography of that valley and layout of the land there. I saw snipers on overpasses and very close in on low rises. Within short distance, with high power rifles beyond the .308's they likely had on the overpass I saw...is what I'm talking about. There are ridge lines in a couple directions there to view the whole scene and everything around, above and approaching it for many miles out. (This same thing should and COULD have been done with Occupy..and a few camps would have avoided being beaten to bloody pulps on the pavement ....if they'd even thought this direction)

As little dots on a field of very contrasting sand in a targeting system...I'd say that over watch from a distance is life and death to the protesters, if ever they cross the line the Government decides it won't tolerate.

The US hasn't seen a crackdown with heads spit and people dead in the street afterward since the early 20th century and the likes of Woodrow Wilson, among others. Folks seem to think it can never happen again...and I can only think the protesters of another era would have looked at the physical situation at Mesquite, knowing this Government the way those people did, and run screaming for the trap it represented.
edit on 22-4-2014 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Phoenix

However, Ruby Ridge was a TOTAL LOSS for Randy Weaver. Ask that man if he thinks he WON anything when he takes time to give memorial to the graves of his wife...and son. He got something back for what he lost, in ways that can never touch the true loss he endured....but he lost almost everything he had in life which mattered. It was wrong, it was unjustified and it NEVER should have happened. Ruby Ridge was one of the few I'd say largely lived up to what it looked like.



As I said it was a bitter victory but victory nonetheless by any definition.





Also, the Government window here is 12 months. That isn't arbitrary like prosters with lives to lead and homes to tend, waiting a year in limbo. The Government sought and got notice allowing total freedom of action on this matter for 1 calendar year.


I think this will if not is too hot a political issue now that dampens chance of heavy handed action even if legal.




Okay.. I'm totally confused. 50,000 is a number coming form what? What may be at some future fight or are you saying the one we just saw had 50,000 men and women under arms or within the group who was, and prepared to stand?



Just the Oklahoma Militia alone has 50,000 members and that militia came out publically yesterday in support of Bundy. My real point was speculating that given the pervasive monitoring of every thing the public communicates with - the government gauged that a much larger response was imminent if they used violence at Bundy's ranch against the Bundy's and protesters already there deciding now was not the time for a possible insurrection. Yes speculation on my part but a distinct possibility.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

First hand account of Cliven Bundy Ranch Standoff

This is an account by "Voodoo" who is the gentleman in the tan vest in widely disseminated picture of Bundy being escorted by security volunteers.

The site won't let me quote so you'll have to read into the account for the description of hills being cleared to cheers by Bundy supporters.



posted on Apr, 22 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: Phoenix

Thank you Phoenix. I heard that yesterday too about a militia unit with 50,000 members in support of this, but couldn't remember what state. This whole thing sounds like so much more than just him. It's almost like this is just the excuse because people are tired and had enough of all the little things, over reaching, obamacare, the scandals, the corruption etc. Today it may be Bundy, but tomorrow it's someone or something else. Deep down I just really think it's more about change after seeing other countries do it.



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