Also, any additional info is appreciated. I've learned a lot on this one.

WOW! what warped perceprions you all have of mormons. its going to take me a while to state the facts as I was taught growing up mormon, so lets get started...
starting at the very beginnign with jukyu post that spirits built the planet earth..NO. God did, it says so in the bible, and Mormons believe the bible to be almost entirely correct. God created earth.
yes, they believe God has a wife.
yes they believe that god was once just like us, a mortal who ascended through learnings and became OUR God.
As fr the Kolob reference, I cant call the Prophet and ask him, and ive gotten basically 2 different answers
1. God Lives on Kolob
2. God uses Kolob as a reference that humans may be able to understand where he exists in the Universe.
the two plans of human existance, dont most religions teach that? even if not, how can you make a mistake if you dont have free will? how are you supposed to know right from wrong without free will? Lucifer said that he wanted all the glory and control of the people to force them to be enlightened and ascend to godhood, Christ said that God would have all the glory, and we would learn the way God had when he was a mortal man. Again, how can you know the difference from right and wrong without knowing both?
Satan and his minions coerce mostly because misery loves company, i have my own personal theories on this, and Satan and his followers were actually folloing Gods will so that we would have right and wrong, but that is my PERSONAL BELIEF I have achieved through thought and prayer, whiich is taught to be done when you have questions by Mormons and most other religions.
Was the fall of man supposed to happen the way it did and appear a set up? i dont believe so, there was no Veil in the beginning, they didnt have the physical knowledge having only been spirits before, they were told to multiply, yes, but they could ask God, He was constantly with them in the Garden. They were given free will to either inquire of God, or listen to the serpent and partake of the Tree of Knowledge. Obviously, we know what they chose.
The Priesthood is not the progression of God, it is the Power of God minifested through the righteous.
another quick point id like to make, the word human is constantly used, we dont know that god is Human, we only believe and through faith know that we are in the image of God, so he may be simply Humanoid, and this is what we have come to call ourselves.
God does still communicate directly with man, says so in the bible ans Mormons believe the bible.
Noah built the Ark.
Ive been typin as I read, so some of these pertain to other christian religions as well. The Tower of Babe you reference for instance. Im not going to comment on these anymore, only the ones related Directly and Specifically to Mormons.
Yes they believe that Lehi cam to the americas, but its not as simple as they were the Aztecs and the Inca, the Jaredites were still around then as well, and many other factors.
werent the Apostles in the Bible as well? as well as the Immortal Apostles, who BTW, arent sitting around watching CNN all the time, they are out and about teaching the Word of Christ, and they WILL DIE, but not until the return of Christ, you have to be a resurrected being to ener Heaven, and you have to die to be resurrected.
It was 1927 when joseph saw Moroni, and he didnt just pop up and say "hello, im here to change the world", JOseph prayed long and hard about whaat church was the true church, And through his desire to be righteous and do the right thing, his prayer was answered.
Polygamy WAS NOT ONLY available to the higher church members, it was available to all those who were righteous. So Basically you would have to love all your wives the same as the first, ands not just have more so when one is on her period, you could still have sex. Some of the Higher elders at the time were refused polygamy because they were not beleived to be able to love each wife as the first, with a true love, and not with a love of yay theres still someone to sleep with for that week every month. The Wives were supposed to be equal in the eyes of their husband, while one may cook better, hes not to choose a wife or favor a wife because she has a special talent.
Polygamy isnt considered a sin necessarily, but it is forbidden to be practiced because it contradicts the law of the land, and many men were able to take multiple wives without true permission of the church because of the expanses that the church had reached.
Blacks did not suddenly get the right to hold the priesthood during the Civil rights movement, they were allowed to receive the priesthood in the 70's, adn i thought the civil rights movement was in the 50's.. Any Black man claiming descrimination and demanding he receive teh priesthood WILL STILL BE DENIED. The priesthood is only bestowed on those of Faith within the church. Black, white, yellow, red or green all can hold the priesthood. I know MANY black members that old the Priesthood. It changed the way many in the church thought, and many fell away, it challenged their faith in God.

Well, it looks like theres a lot more to go, only through the first post. thers obviously more to come from me then...

OK, on to my Part 2.
I looked at teh suicide rate in utah, and its high between he ages of 16 and 35. While missionary work does fall in that age bracket, it is usually served from 19 to 21. There was also another study that showed that Active Church members in that age group had a lower number of suicides. I lived in Utah for Many years, only heard of one suicide, and that was accidental, and he was 11. I have also read studies saying the opposite, so everyone will have to draw their own conclusions. You are not ostricised if you do not serve on a mission, and you are not glorified if you do, at least your not supposed to be but the Church is comprised of people and people are flawed.
The statement on baptism for the dead are slightly skewed, but generally correct. They are not in Hot water, there will be baptisms after the return of Christ and Heaven has returned to Earth, but, being good people they are trying to help those that have passed on now, instead of making them wait. And you cant just go to the local cemetery and find a name and be baptised for them, the family has to allow it, and if ther eis no family, then how do they find the person? there are certain "rules" to be followed to get the names. They arent drawn from a hat or the local house of records and just baptised.
the copyright you speak of does not exist, it is a religious ritual, just as many religions have, they are not to be discussed because they are deemed Holy.
Yes good standing is required for entrance, but then would the Catholics not allow a satanic minister in the Vaticans many chapels? why do you see a difference between the two other than the catholic reference i have mentioned is extreme. If you dont follow the rules, should you be rewarded?
You can get in if you do not pay tithing. They do allow for hardship. the Church takes VERY good care of its members. I remember once when i was young, my family was very poor, no food, no clothes, almost evicted for failure to pay rent. but my step father paid tithing, we received food, clothing, and our rent was taken care of for us, because of my parents faith that the lord would provide as long as they were faithful. Apparantly He did through the Church proper, and the members of the church who were willing to share what they did not "need" so that we could have what we did need. Yo are offered a settlement at the end of the year to catch up with your tithing, I know of a few who are not caught up with tithe, and yet they still attend the Temple meetings for baptism and marriages and the like. Its not Follow the rules or yyou go to hell, its follow what the spirit tells you, and you will be held accountable. many things are taken into consideration to be allowed in the temple, and not all must be met to be allowed, but if you fall short in too many or in key areas, you are not allowed. Again, if you dont follow the rules you agreed to follow when you were baptised into the church, should you be allowed to enjoy ALL the benefits of the church on earth?
When you die, you do not go to heaven or hell, you go and await the second coming, where that is, I do not remember what it is call, but EVERYONE goes there until the return of Christ.
NO babies that die young or at birth are not seen as "perfect" souls. they are but thats not why they died, we are all perfect souls before birth. They were born to receive a body, they will learn the word of God in the afterlife. he human period is so that we can obtain a physical body, and not just be spirits. and there will still be suffering after death, the addictions you have in life will follow you after death, but simce theres no cigarette world in heaven....
as far as the rest of your heaven theories go, they seem to coincide with what i have been taught, not that there are sub levels though, thats the part that makes me use the workd seem....Ill have to do a little more remembering before ill go further here..
im skipping part 3, at least after I say that its all entirely untrue. Theyre not part of the NWO, not connected to Masons, (youll get excommunicated if youre a Mason after youre a Mormon) Untrue, but since they are youre theory....
and as for part 4, youll remember ithat Joseph Smith was almost destroyed by the Devil before God and Christ appeared before him in the woods as he prayed. Did you ever stoop to think that maybe you were going through the same thing? and that the moepwerful voice was not of god or the holy spirit, but of something evil to persuade you?
Ill post my opinions seperately, what this post and the post previous are are stated as more closely, if not factual teachings of the Mormon Church, I was a member for 21 years.

apparantly an3rkist is Mormon as well, didnt read the whole thread before i started posting. I was apparantly taught different from him because i was taught that everyone goes to paradise, and spirit prison is more an analogy of what the spirit feels being surrounded by those who accept god, yet they are those who even in death still deny, or refuse to learn more.

Well,i read the rest of the posts, people will believe what they choose to believe. I personally believe that Mormons are a lost people. The religion itself, in its true form, however, I do believe in. I spen the first 21 years of my life a MOrmon everyday. Now i spend my time folloing my own religion. The Book Of Mormon says to follow your heart to find the Teachings of Christ and God. So does the Bible. through all of the studies ive done concerning religion, I think that if we follow the basics, treat others as well as possible, so on and so forth, well get to where we need to go. I have read and studie much about many religions, but as I said,believe the Mormons to hav the closest thing the the true teachings of Christ, unfortunately, its run by a man, and the followers are men, and therefore it is now a flawed religion. I remember growing up not being allowed to have coke because of the caffein, now you can, and funny how a high elder is majority owner of the coke company. Sudedenly they are back to the teaching of Christ, all things in moderation, at least as far as that, still cant have coffee.
Dont take my previous posts the wrong way,Im not defending them, only correcting what i was taught were errors.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I've never had a physical Mormon text, so I can't confirm whether they disappear or not...if they do it's probably the power of God banishing evil texts.

I initially felt something to that effect after giving up the search. Weird thing is, this isn't the only thing that has 'vanished' that I later found out I should not have but that's another story for a U2U I guess. Unfortunately peeps are now going to have another reason to think I'm looney

Originally posted by djohnsto77
As far as the seven letters to the seven churches in Asia Minor of Revelation, I think they are really letters to seven churches in Turkey at John's time, however some believe they represent different stages of the church in time. There's information on this in the (as yet unfinished) research report [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79004/pg1]here[/url

This is an excerpt:

In response to the Churches, My experience is that they are broken down into seven stages:

1. Ephesus: Apostolic Church (A.D. 30-100)
2. Smyrna: Persecuted Church (A.D. 100-313)
3. Pergamos State Church (A.D. 313-590)
4. Thyatira Papal Church (A.D. 590-1517)
5. Sardis Reformed Church (A.D. 1517-1790)
6. Philadelphia Missionary Church (A.D. 1730-1900)
7. Laodicea Apostate Church (A.D. 1900-?)

Was that it?

Wow , never thought of it temporally. I always thought geographical location. My world just went from 2-D to 3-D on this subject. Thanks!

[edit on 14-1-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by question_reality
apparantly an3rkist is Mormon as well

I wish I had time to reply to everything you said, but for now I just want to clarify that I do not consider myself Mormon anymore. Technically, all the paperwork the Mormons keep still says I am, but unless I do something to get myself excommunicated there's not much I can do about that. I was Mormon up until about two years ago, though.

I have two shelves in my bookcase -- three feet each -- of religious books, including the Standard Works (BoM, D&C Pearl, etc.) as well as Bruce R. McConkey's comments of President Joseph Fielding Smith's statements, a two-volume Church history, Smith's "History fo the Church", and others.

None of them have disappeared, nor have any of my other holy books, including the Qu'ran, Popul Vuh, Bhagavad-Gita, various translations of the Bible, and a whole bunch of apocrypha.

I think you're just getting a bit forgetful in your old age. Trust me; it happens. I'm there right now.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I think you're just getting a bit forgetful in your old age. Trust me; it happens. I'm there right now.

If I were beyond my 40's, I may be inclined to agree. Until then, I can't help but wonder how my fiancee & I would both 'forget' on two occasions in a very small bookshelf, as well as the same thing happening to my mother in unrelated times and locations. Forgetfulness was my first blame as well but does not appear valid.

Funny you should mention what's your shelf. The Mormon Bible(s) we had were next to: Qu'ran, Bhagavad-Gita, The Great Elk Speaks, The Sacred and the Profane, and various translations of the Bible (Oxford Study Bible, yeck). We kept them together so we knew where they were. There was a gap after both incidents. Then again, I wasn't instructed to pray about the Qu'ran or Bhagavad-Gita to reveal the truth about those books as the Mormons instructed for their book.

[edit on 18-1-2005 by saint4God]

BTW, I'm recanting my theory of the connection between Mormons and Freemasons. I think that the LDS church has the potential to be dangerous, but I agree now with some other posts that they took masonic rituals as their own because it supported their agenda and gave them an opportunity to create more belief structure where they were lacking. Just wanted to weigh in.

For some reason it won't let me edit my post. I just wanted to wanted to say I still see a very real conspiracy or at least the potentiial for one, just with the Masons as an unwilling bystander to the whole thing. Beyond that, I hope my main posts provided information conspiracy or not.

Great thread!!!! What an eyeopener. I know a few Mormons and they are wonderful family people, very nice genuine people. Something just doesn't sit right with me with Mormonism though. I definitely think the Mormon families teach very solid morals to their children. I can't fault the life lessons. The "everyone can become Gods of their own planet" stuff just seems wrong. Mr Smith seems like a false prophet to me.

Uh, I hate to cast aspersions, but the bulk of Christian churches face east (as you're standing in front of the altar, you face east). The RC church I grew up in faces east. So does my grandmother's First Congregational church. And the Methodist and Lutheran churches in my town.

The sun and moon symbols are not satanic in nature. National Cathedral in Washington, DC, has a huge "space" window with astronomical bodies. That they have faces is a bit odd for a Christian church.

Most of the stars he refers to as pentagrams are not. Some are simply stars. Several are distinctly starfish. I can't explain the inverse pentacle, though. That's a weird one. Or the fact that all the stars depicted are inverse. Maybe the architect just liked upside-down stars.

I was kinda hoping someone would be able to explain...

Originally posted by an3rkist


1. The stones you called the ummim and thummim are actually the urim and thummim. I'm not sure of the exact spelling, although that looks correct, but its pronounced the "yer-um and thumb-um". I'm not entirely sure, but I believe these are the same stones that God blessed and turned into sources of light for...I believe it was for the ship they rode in to get to the "promised land", aka the Americas


[edit on 28-11-2004 by an3rkist]

Correct on your pronounciation....wrong in the USE.
The ummim & thummim are stones, crystals maybe, endowed with the power to translate the golden plates correctly while inside Joseph Smith' hat.
Seriously.

HEY.........? Do you think this KOLOB could be Nibiru? the 11th planet, ey?

There are alot of jokes about LDS housewives and prozac.....I wonder about the stats of that? I bet ya its SHOCKING

Food storage is a great idea....been around for centuries. Extra closets set back.....a cold storage is a good idea. Remember if you store grains you need a way to process it. You need to have hand grinders available. You MUST have water....or all the food in the world wont do you a lick of good.

[edit on 7-3-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

Hi and just want to say your posts are very well done. I am a former Mormon and raised my children in the church. We no longer go to a Mormon church but go to other Churches now as my children are grown and have their own children and beliefts as it should be. I have a lot of problems with the Mormon ways from my time in the church. I know of children being abused sexually by elders and it was reported to the bishop and no one was punished. The guilty men had to have counseling by the bishop and couldn't hold offices for awhile. They were able to go back into postions were they had contact with children and church ok's within 6 months of talking. The parents and children were discourged about reporting it and it was talked down. Basically it was treated like something mild. I also know of cases of bars that have back doors for members to come and go without being seen in the front of the bar. I know this probably happens in all religions but I know of it in this one and found I couldn't take the way the children were discounted. I do know I feel better with the Lord now.