Cult of the Bronze Serpent

originally posted by: zardust
When I say serpent, what's your first thought?

My first thoughts circle around the (sinus) path of the sun and the Moon as seen from Earth perspective. Secondly, I see books as serpents. Originally the Torah was written as one very long word/sentance, letter after letter, syllable after syllable, without vowels or punctuation, spaces or paragraphs, just one long and winding serpent compacted with knowledge and wisdom. I also see geometrical shapes like the circle, the phi-spiral and the Archimedean spiral as serpents. It's no coincidence that Ba'al is reflected in English words like Bull and Ball. The seven Ba'als were the seven astrological Ball-shaped planets and Ba'al Sebul ("Lord of Rising") was represented by the Bull.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's no coincidence that Ba'al is reflected in English words like Bull and Ball.

And the word, bible, according to some people.

Don't you think that the great serpent would be the milky way, and also coincidentally where falling stars would appear to come from as the serpent makes its way around the earth?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

It's no coincidence that Ba'al is reflected in English words like Bull and Ball.

And the word, bible, according to some people.

Indeed. The serpent on the cross. "Be ye wise as serpents...." Satan is the OLD serpent. Time for a new one, right?

Don't you think that the great serpent would be the milky way, and also coincidentally where falling stars would appear to come from as the serpent makes its way around the earth?

The Great Dragon is Draco, sitting at God's throne at the apex of the Northern Sky. If you release the chains of Draco, and look at the same place in the sky, you will see the shape of an old man (the Father) sitting on a throne. It was this Stephanos saw when he said he saw the heavens opened and the Son of Man (Ursa Major) standing by the Father's right arm. Draco's tail is God's right arm. The Lamb of God is Ursa Minor, resting on the Father's lap, with Stella Polaris at the tip of it's tail.


ETA: And Jesus called the scribes who kept Draco at the Throne of God (Babylonian astrology, incorporated into Greek/Roman astrology + Hillel and his Babylonian Talmud) -- "brood of vipers" or serpent-children.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: zardust
When I think of Midian I think of Jethro, Moses' Father In-Law, the priest of YHWH.

This is quite interesting, since God speaks to Moses in Exodus 6:3 revealing how Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew God by the name El Shaddai ("God Almighty"), but at Jethro's there is a change in how God names himself, for apparently, only after Jethro the Tetragrammaton was revealed.

I believe the Tetragrammaton reflects the name of the Egyptian Creator God Hu-Hu, and that the H'es represents God's Creation (Jod means lit. Arm, i.e. to Create) of the Heavens (Space/Cosmos) and the Earth (Matter), represented by Jod (lit. 'an arm' in the meaning 'to create') and Vav (lit. 'a tent peg' or 'ground support for a tent') through breath/spirit (Heh), as is visualised in the Creation of Adam, how God turned a clay statue into 'a living (animated) soul'. Throughout the Bible the Heavens are visualised as a tent i.e. a 'Tabernacle'. I believe that the "lost name of God" can be reconstructed using this formulae. After God had Created (Jod) 'the Heavens and the Earth' (Vav), God's Spirit (Heh) hovered over 'the face of the Waters'. Looking up 'Waters' a new letter emerges with that exact meaning: Mem. See the light? Thus I assume (may God forgive my folly...) that the next letter in Gods name is Mem, or JHVHM.... (and the funny thing is that read in Norwegian, "Ja hvem" means lit. "Yes who". According to Kabalah God's full name is a code of 72 letters, and I believe that Genesis 1 has this complete name encoded into it's very meaning and that each stage in his creation is represented by a corresponding letter in the alef-bet. (Source #1 and Source #2)

And God is not the only one known by many and complex names. According to rabbinical tradition Jethro himself is recorded with as many as seven names: Reuel, Jether, Jethro, Hobab, Heber, Keni and Putiel (Source).

ETA: If you draw the four (Aramaic) letters of the Tetragrammaton on top of eachother, it becomes the shape of a man, putting a Mem below it becomes a man hovering above water: "And the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters...." compare with st.Michael in the end of Daniel 12.

DUDE!!!!!!!!!


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/tl5368d436.gif[/atsimg]

I was going to post the picture of the YHWH man as I was reading your post, but obviously you knew about it already.

originally posted by: zardust

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: zardust
When I think of Midian I think of Jethro, Moses' Father In-Law, the priest of YHWH.

This is quite interesting, since God speaks to Moses in Exodus 6:3 revealing how Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew God by the name El Shaddai ("God Almighty"), but at Jethro's there is a change in how God names himself, for apparently, only after Jethro the Tetragrammaton was revealed.

I believe the Tetragrammaton reflects the name of the Egyptian Creator God Hu-Hu, and that the H'es represents God's Creation (Jod means lit. Arm, i.e. to Create) of the Heavens (Space/Cosmos) and the Earth (Matter), represented by Jod (lit. 'an arm' in the meaning 'to create') and Vav (lit. 'a tent peg' or 'ground support for a tent') through breath/spirit (Heh), as is visualised in the Creation of Adam, how God turned a clay statue into 'a living (animated) soul'. Throughout the Bible the Heavens are visualised as a tent i.e. a 'Tabernacle'. I believe that the "lost name of God" can be reconstructed using this formulae. After God had Created (Jod) 'the Heavens and the Earth' (Vav), God's Spirit (Heh) hovered over 'the face of the Waters'. Looking up 'Waters' a new letter emerges with that exact meaning: Mem. See the light? Thus I assume (may God forgive my folly...) that the next letter in Gods name is Mem, or JHVHM.... (and the funny thing is that read in Norwegian, "Ja hvem" means lit. "Yes who". According to Kabalah God's full name is a code of 72 letters, and I believe that Genesis 1 has this complete name encoded into it's very meaning and that each stage in his creation is represented by a corresponding letter in the alef-bet. (Source #1 and Source #2)

And God is not the only one known by many and complex names. According to rabbinical tradition Jethro himself is recorded with as many as seven names: Reuel, Jether, Jethro, Hobab, Heber, Keni and Putiel (Source).

ETA: If you draw the four (Aramaic) letters of the Tetragrammaton on top of eachother, it becomes the shape of a man, putting a Mem below it becomes a man hovering above water: "And the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters...." compare with st.Michael in the end of Daniel 12.

DUDE!!!!!!!!!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/tl5368d436.gif[/atsimg]

Hehe. The 'Name of God' is the same as the 'Word of God' ==> And "the Word became flesh" (John 1) assuming the shape of a man... "In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind". Eve or Shevah means Life, and through eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge she saw the Light and Adam (Man) ate from the hand of Eve assuming the Tree of Life through knowledge. Note how Eve and the serpent are cursed, but not Adam. The Earth was cursed in his place.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I'm not following you on this last bit about Adam not being cursed but the earth.

a reply to: jmdewey60

There is a connection between weaving goddesses, the milky way, and serpents. Weaving is also heavily associated with Veils… of reality, of the tabernacle, of clothing (bright white raiment/ woven without seam).

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I'm not following you on this last bit about Adam not being cursed but the earth.

Genesis 3:17 ..."Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree [...] cursed is the ground because of you..."

It's in the small print, see?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I see that, but what does that mean to you? Interpret that for me please. The taking the fruit from the hand of life so the earth is cursed.

Also when you mentioned the Heh-Hu god, I was going to get to my conception of that in my Egypt to Israel thread. The 4 Heh's of the Dendera Zodiac are the 4 cardinal points, also seen as the double 4 Horae

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/tp5368dca8.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is another representation of this same concept

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/dp5339ded6.gif[/atsimg]

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Note how Eve and the serpent are cursed, but not Adam. The Earth was cursed in his place.

The earth and Eve are both the mothers.
The serpent is serving as the servant of the earth.
YHWH and Adam are the fathers.
So it is sexist, that the men need to rule over the women, and thwarting that principle brings bad results (according to whoever wrote that, doubtless men).

a reply to: zardust

There is a connection between weaving goddesses, the milky way, and serpents. Weaving is also heavily associated with Veils… of reality, of the tabernacle, of clothing (bright white raiment/ woven without seam).

I think this is all very interesting.
Also, fates are seen as being woven. I recommend listening to this song on repeat about a hundred times, then repeat this process until it becomes part of you. (or not . . whatever)
Anyway, that's sort of what I did in the early seventies, to the annoyance of anyone around me.
Today, we have MP3 players and headphones, so no one needs to know what you are doing, just don't like start swaying to it, and just sit very still, that is if you are already just sitting there anyway.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I see that, but what does that mean to you? Interpret that for me please. The taking the fruit from the hand of life so the earth is cursed.

The way I see it, Nachash (Serpent) means 'Knowledge', and Chevah (Eve) means 'Life'. Remember also that it was Adam who gave names to all the animals, and Eve. Adam called the serpent 'Knowledge' and his woman 'Life'. The episode by the 'Tree-in-the-Middle' is Adam's 'Examen Divinum' in a way, like Jacob he challenged God and won, and like with Jacob there was the usual catch, Jacob got his back-pain, and Adam had the Earth cursed. God likes to make points, if you don't bow down, he'll bloody force you, Adam had to till the ground, Israel got a crooked back. BTW my back is killing me today and has been for days now. BUT: "Besser tsu shtarben shtai’endik aider tsu leben oif di kni."

Eve ate from the 'Tree of the Serpent' (Tree of Knowledge), even from the hand of the Serpent, while Adam in effect ate from the 'Tree of Eve' (Tree of Life) since it was from Eve's hand he ate. Thing is, there was only one tree in the middle of the Garden, but known by two names (Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge). Through knowledge we became gods, and through knowledge we gained eternal life. Through their work, Archimedes and Plato became eternal, and nowadays we've even found the keys of eternal life in the flesh, so we don't have to believe in esoteric fairytales and rhetorical childsplay where some hairy dude "is" Life, the Way, God and what not. He was a man, period. And if you got the a few million pound sterling, you can have a child designed from ground up with an alternate telomer, basically giving it eternal life, then again, there are millions of ways to die, even with ever rejuvinating cells. So as usual, there's always a catch.

Also when you mentioned the Heh-Hu god, I was going to get to my conception of that in my Egypt to Israel thread. The 4 Heh's of the Dendera Zodiac are the 4 cardinal points, also seen as the double 4 Horae

We find the name Haru/Horus in the English word 'Horizon' and also in words like 'Hero', which again shows the ancient Egyptian relationship between Heaven (Nut, later Aseth/Isis) and Earth (Geb, later Asar/Osiris), and how they meet in the silver lining between them, the son of Aseth and Asar -- Haru -- the Horizon with it's four cardinal points (a cross or a rose), i.e. the four corners of the Earth.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Note how Eve and the serpent are cursed, but not Adam. The Earth was cursed in his place.

The earth and Eve are both the mothers.

In Egypt, the Earth is male, upon death our souls ascend to Heaven (Female) like a seed, often symbolised with obelisks and pyramids. While We are born from Heaven (Woumb) and descend upon the earth like a newborn.

The serpent is serving as the servant of the earth.
YHWH and Adam are the fathers.
So it is sexist, that the men need to rule over the women, and thwarting that principle brings bad results (according to whoever wrote that, doubtless men).

Perhaps in your mind, but there are other ways than through sexism and control exercised upon weaker creatures. To enter Heaven you have to have a good reason and you must be invited. Refering to Jesus and claiming to be Christian will only make you a laughingstock by the pearly gates. As far as I remember you assumed the role of the murderer, claiming Jesus was an acceptable sacrifice. Still time to repent, though, he's got all the time in the world

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Perhaps in your mind, but there are other ways than through sexism and control exercised upon weaker creatures.

In my mind, that is my understanding of the intention of the writers of the Eden story in Genesis.
I'm not saying that I agree with them.

As far as I remember you assumed the role of the murderer, claiming Jesus was an acceptable sacrifice.

You should look at my thread (We are the Offering and Sacrifice to God) where I say that we are the sacrifice, of course not in a sense of being killed, but in the sense of our lives being lived in a spirit of sacrifice, in practical terms, helping others.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

As far as I remember you assumed the role of the murderer, claiming Jesus was an acceptable sacrifice.

You should look at my thread (We are the Offering and Sacrifice to God) where I say that we are the sacrifice, of course not in a sense of being killed, but in the sense of our lives being lived in a spirit of sacrifice, in practical terms, helping others.

Which is even stupider. Humans cannot be sacrificed within the limits of Christianity or Judaism for that matter. If you quit this folly, it will be a sacrifice worthy of intelligent species like the Adayim and the Eloyim. Humble yourself just leave it. That's sacrifice. Human sacrifice is murder. Sacrifice a thought and a desire, sacrifice something that brings you to your knees, like sacrificing your pride instead of your love, it'll even bring great joy. Stick to science and sense, knowledge and wisdom instead. It suits you better. You're an intelligent man as I have come to know you, don't spend your 'wiz and kiss' on defending and promoting murder. To sacrifice is to offer, so be humble and admit you are but a fool in the quorum of gods, rather than turning yourself into dead flesh of no use.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Sacrifice a thought and a desire . . .

Right.
Sacrifice selfishness and hatred for other people.
"sacrifice" is only a metaphorical device to make a point.
"Kill the old man", that evil old self that only wanted to accumulate things, not caring who got hurt in the process.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Sacrifice a thought and a desire . . .

Right.
Sacrifice selfishness and hatred for other people.
"sacrifice" is only a metaphorical device to make a point.
"Kill the old man", that evil old self that only wanted to accumulate things, not caring who got hurt in the process.

Psalms 50:14f Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving, and perform your vows to the Most High, and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.” (ESV)

In the Torah the word translated Thanksgiving (Todah) here is only found in the ceremonial (the priests') laws in Leviticus, and is basically a barbeque with cakes and wafers, accompanied by song and joy. If this sacrifice is a human or a bunch of humans, even the enemy, or as in your case, even the Lord himself, well, I'm afraid your joy will be a brief one. Read also Revelation 11 about the two witnesses, and realise that killing/sacrificing servants of God, well, it's not really a good idea.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim


We find the name Haru/Horus in the English word 'Horizon' and also in words like 'Hero', which again shows the ancient Egyptian relationship between Heaven (Nut, later Aseth/Isis) and Earth (Geb, later Asar/Osiris), and how they meet in the silver lining between them, the son of Aseth and Asar -- Haru -- the Horizon with it's four cardinal points (a cross or a rose), i.e. the four corners of the Earth.

Yep This is one of the main concepts that guide my thoughts

These are pictures of the Theophany. We cannot grasp the invisible eternal Godhead with our veiled minds. When men would gaze into the heavens they would see this basic form. A vessel/moon of the sun is the most basic but the expanded is the emanation of the sons from the mother and father, which are the Sun in the moon, or horns, or horae, or the 4 corners of the earth, the 4 cardinal points, the 4 pillars of the earth. These horns or 4 points are extensions or children of the Sun+Moon. They are the little Horus' in Egypt. These are the faces of the cherubim which are 4 representing the cardinal points, along with the tribes of Israel being set in this pattern around the tabernacle, which is the Flesh/Woman/Beth/Beit/Soul. "And the Word/Logos/seed/male became flesh/woman/soul, and Dwelt (literally tabernacled) among us. This is the Father in the House, the Aleph-Beth. Sometimes this theophany is distilled down to 2 horns, or projections, or children of the A-B, the ABBA, the true God. That is what we see in this Stele. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: zardust

As for the Sun and the Moon in ancient Egypt, they have symbolised many things, male and female, but also divine dualism or opposition or compliment. The ancient Egyptian word for the Sun is ra or re (similar to our Sol, which is another name for Mithras), and it was worshipped as the Godhead carrying the same name. It's glyph is a circle with a dot in the middle, we still use that symbol in astronomy/astrology. Ra "died" every night and was "reborn" every morning, and he had but one enemy, Apep:



Note how Apep has 19 coils in the pic above, corresponding to the 19 year Saron (eclipse) cycle (which the Babylonian- and the later Hebrew calendar is designed to match), so obviously Apep is the Moon, or more speciefically solar-eclipses, when the Moon (Apep) threatents the Sun (Ra). Apep would persue Ra through the "Underworld" or the "Kingdom of Death" (every night) and at times it would completely humiliate Ra by occulting it's rays, darkening his face and challenge it's power and might, much like in the story of Cayin and Abaal, or for that matter Jesus and the Sun-cross, with Longinus playing the role of Seth who is the one defending Ra. Another obvious parallel is the Tree in the Middle of the Garden (the Sun) with it's serpent (the Moon) and it's fruit (the calendar/astronomy, spark of all divine knowledge).

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: graphuto

Brass=bronze. It's the same thing.

Jesus likened himself to the serpent. How does it have nothing to do with Christianity? I guess if you are talking about the nonsense of modern western churchianity yes it has nothing to do with it. Otherwise I'd say it's pretty related.

I simply say copper serpent. Remember that Jesus said he was the Light, and God tells Moses to make a fiery serpent. Hmmm.... Makes me think of the English language and a certain invention: Zion's Lamb ==> Science' Lamp.....

Another thing to note is the nature of snakes, they donot attack humans, they defend themselves against us when we threaten them. So when Moses gets Israel to look up instead of searching for snakes and scaring them off (a terribly stupid approach), they should look up instead and ignore the snakes on the ground. Snakes like many other predators (like humans) sense (i.e. smell) fear. When we are intimidated we release certain pheromones that make dogs and cats (and vipers etc.) snear and show teeth, be calm instead and don't stare in their eyes, simply show that you don't feel threatened by their being around and that you respect their anger and look away, and they will most likely not harm you but simply go about their daily business.





ETA: Also important is that when a person is bit by a viper, remains calm and not contribute to higher pulse and release of adrenaline etc. So unless there is an antidote administered, simply resting helps quite well, contrary to Rambo methods like sucking out venom or cutting away the afflicted flesh. Do not run or otherwise contribute to higher heartrate, which only helps distribution of the venom and stuff like adrenaline will rise how the body absorbs the venom.