U.S. ground troops going to Poland, defense minister says

a reply to: MrSpad

The one thing we learned from Russias conflct in Georgia is they have terrible intelligence on the ground and what little they do they have no way of getting it to units fast enough to make any difference.

But did Russia not win in about two days after those rusty buckets they called tanks got the orders to roll against some of the tanks that are being used by NATO today ?

Was the EU not forced at admit who the aggressor was during that conflict

I don't know with the right wing falling out with the government in Kiev and the east being full of terrorists you would think by now that someone would have blow the pipeline feeding Europe and it would be funny to see Americans and Russians working hand in hand to put the fires out and and fix the pipes before Germany throws a strop.

Are you sure it's on and not just a case of Russia/Iran/USA pumping up oil prices because for Bp, Shell , Exon its just another day as normal and the oil wells they have in Russia so far as I know have not missed a beat.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: IamAbeliever

I am a little surprised that troops would be deployed, I expect the lion's share of our contribution to NATO is not boots on the ground.

“The idea until recently was that there were no more threats in Europe and no need for a U.S. presence in Europe any more,” Siemoniak said, speaking through an interpreter. “Events show that what is needed is a re-pivot, and that Europe was safe and secure because America was in Europe.”

Boots on the ground in Poland does give a very clear Red line though.

Ukraine and no further it seems is the message.

Its a mistake Britain made in 1939.

We promised to protect Poland but never deployed any meaningful troops. So when SHTF we had too little in place too late. Seem American wont make that same mistake.

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer
a reply to: youdidntseeme

ya id wager anything smaller than a brigade is worthless...good find

Just a company of US or British Troops would be a deterrent in Poland. If Russian troops went into Poland shot on British, USA or French troops then NATO would have no choice but to get involved full scale.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer
a reply to: youdidntseeme

ya id wager anything smaller than a brigade is worthless...good find

Just a company of US or British Troops would be a deterrent in Poland. If Russian troops went into Poland shot on British, USA or French troops then NATO would have no choice but to get involved full scale.

ah yes ..for instigation purposes you are totally right...!!!

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer
Idk if this is possible but im curious...without violating opsec....does anyone know which units are deployed...or going to be deployed...Call your friends and dig guys....depending on what unit is sent will give a little more insight. This is an interesting development.

There is no such thing as OPSEC in the European theater. The place is a leaking sieve. Parenthetically everybody understands an old fashioned show of force.

basically I just didnt want anyone to get in trouble.....or put anyone at risk...but alot of this stuff is public info...

In fact one time...a family member heard we had a change in our threat level before the unit did!!!! they told us to not talk about it but apparently someone told the press anyway! Haha

Just saying that there are eyes and ears everywhere in Europe. (Its worse than that really as the Russians will know whose landing where before they hit the ground). Any sort of plans may be secure but units can hardly move without everybody, Russians, knowing about it.

I knew a guy that graduated from Army Intel school. He was sent to Germany near the old wall. He was shocked to find out that some group in Europe published a yearly book for spies apparently, that contained the names, photos, all personal information, high school graduated from, town grew up in ect of all the US Army intel school graduates. That may be hard to believe but true.

The one thing we learned from Russias conflct in Georgia is they have terrible intelligence on the ground and what little they do they have no way of getting it to units fast enough to make any difference. Also what would be the point of making a book of people of US Army Intel school grads? They are not covert agents they are analysts, COMINT, ELINT kind of guys. And if you want to know who they are you pick up a gradution booklet at every class.

This was 1960s during the cold war. This guys job was to work bar and night clubs posing as a regular GI. He was doing covert work. The book was published and distributed to persons who may need to know.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: MrSpad

The one thing we learned from Russias conflct in Georgia is they have terrible intelligence on the ground and what little they do they have no way of getting it to units fast enough to make any difference.

But did Russia not win in about two days after those rusty buckets they called tanks got the orders to roll against some of the tanks that are being used by NATO today ?

Was the EU not forced at admit who the aggressor was during that conflict

I don't know with the right wing falling out with the government in Kiev and the east being full of terrorists you would think by now that someone would have blow the pipeline feeding Europe and it would be funny to see Americans and Russians working hand in hand to put the fires out and and fix the pipes before Germany throws a strop.

Are you sure it's on and not just a case of Russia/Iran/USA pumping up oil prices because for Bp, Shell , Exon its just another day as normal and the oil wells they have in Russia so far as I know have not missed a beat.

Georgia also has the old Russian stuff. The only Western weapons they have are some small arms. And Russia won but, not as quickly and as easly as the panned. Sort of like the US invasion of Panama. In both cases more than enough force was brought bare to guarentee victory and to the general public they look like quick easy victories but, to the miltaries they were both a mess and required major reworkings of several things from equipment to doctrine. For example of the 5 Russian planes shot down, 4 of them were by Russians (at the start Georgia did not bother to deploy any anti air craft systems). The US quickly makes these changes because they have the cash. Russia tried after Georgia to fix things but, for the most part the money for those changes ended up lining pockets. And you are correct the EU did launch an investigation into who was responsible in the end they blamed both sides.

As for the gas lines why would anybody wreck them? While the Russians hope to use the again to export in the future, the EU is using them to supply Ukraine. No matter what side your on you want those pipes in tact for your own reasons.

originally posted by: zilebeliveunknown
This is the standard ass-kissing procedure, as this Polish defence minister is another idiotic puppet for the Nato war machine.

So Russia starts wars and NATO is the war machine .. got it.

there's only two words in the OP that really scare me. Chuck Hagel. Think about that. Our department of defense is being run by Chuck Hagel. Chuck Hagel? Sounds like some kind of cross country skiing technique, as in, "When the slope is that steep and slippery, for heavens sake don't Chuck Hagel! I'm cool with sending U.S. troops to Poland. If there are European countries that need us to stand tall, Poland has got to be WAY UP THERE on the list. If there is a country that has a MAJOR axe to grind with the Russia, it's Poland. We'd be going when the shooting starts anyway, that's what REFORGER is all about. Except now, the jets don't look as cool! Thanks for drawing that line in the sand there Chuck and your Majesty! Now the Russian artillery spotters will have a nice reference point to work with! But the part that bugs me the most? What, exactly was on those computers that Snowden shared with his good buddy Vlad? And does it occur to anyone in the white house or the pentagon, that after getting all that SWEET, SWEET espionage intel from Snowden, the Russians didn't waste a whole lot of time getting aggressive outside they're own borders? Somehow, the old NAVY spook in me says that these two events (Snowden/Ukraine) are linked, and whatever Snowden gave them, it was enough to convince old Vlad to roll the dice, and grab some turf. I hope this turns out to be true in the end. I want old Ed Snowden to have to live with that for every second for for the rest of his days. Or compel him to stick a Glock in his cake hole. EIther way works for me.

originally posted by: VirusGuard

originally posted by: Logarock
Well really you sound like just an old war for oil song and dance spinner. And yea posturing cost money. Better money than Europe in flames stinking of dead bodies.

Or the USA stinking of dead bodies come to that but you seem to wrap me

"posturing cost money" yes our money, like in 1984 and I am saying we are not going to war and we should not play along with this posturing unless we want oil prices up at the pumps and to pay more taxes to finance the military.

Not sure what you are saying, do you know what you are saying

Do you? The most bellicose and belligerent rhetoric I've heard on this site has come from the pro-russian side of the fence. I've seen pro-russians openly egging people on here with the threat of reducing the world to radioactive ashes. For the most part, westerners are extremely apprehensive (especially war weary americans) to engage Russia in a 3rd world war. Not because we think we would lose, but because we realize nobody would win, and our children and our grandchildren would not have much of a world to live in (if they survived at all).

What is your proposition? That the violent factions in the Ukraine be allowed to operate unchecked? If Putin is allowed to protect russian speaking people by invading the Crimea, when are Ukrainians allowed to defend themselves against pro-russian thugs? Should NATO just let Russia do whatever it pleases in the Ukraine without concern for the rest of Europe?

NATO would be foolish to not respond with a bolstering of it's forces near the Ukrainian border. Does that mean it wants war? If NATO members really wanted war, Putin has more than given them a justification for one. It's obvious that the west wants de-escalation. The only question is if it wants it badly enough to quit supporting the puppets they put in place in Kiev.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
But did Russia not win in about two days after those rusty buckets they called tanks got the orders to roll against some of the tanks that are being used by NATO today ?

It actually went on for two weeks and the previous poster was right, Russia learnt valuable lessons from that conflict which showed huge defincies in their Army. At least 2 of their air losses were to their own fire and they found many units were not even in existence, instead just paper units for some General to make a buck out of.

As for NATO tanks, what are you on about? Georgia operates Russian built MBT's, IFV's, AA systems and helo's. The only thing NATO supplied was intel.

EDIT to add: In fact, anytime any Russian kit has gone up against Western kit, it has been annihilated. You can make excuses about poor condition, poor training etc, but the Russian Army, by and large is still a concript army and suffers from chronic issues - they only have an effective combat force about the size of the UK army with the rest of their Army being poorly equipped, poorly trained conscript units.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
Was the EU not forced at admit who the aggressor was during that conflict

Were they? Forced by whom? Russia annexed two regions of Georgia and no-one else recognises it, so I can't say that they "admitted" anything.

I will say one thing, if the west goes to war with Russia it will be the USA and maybe a couple other nations. That's it. We probably would smack Russia around but not without some major battles and setbacks. Americans for the most part are very ignorant not only about Russian capabilities but Russian military experience and tactics. Russia was knee deep in the Chechyn wars throughout the 90s and early 2000s. They were every bit as bloody and probably the Chechyns were as nasty and better fighters than the Taliban. So it's not like Russian military has been sitting on their laurels since WWII. And you think Russia will follow the same ROE as the west? Lol just ask Grozny!!!!!

Russia could destroy us because our nation is bankrupt and rotting on the inside. Americans can't even stand together and force out the illegals and Muslims who have culturally already raged war on our way of life. Russians are very nationalistic people who fight because of Russia. Like the war on terror what the hell reason would Americañs unite behind by ???? You think the 20+ million illegals from south of the border would all of a sudden start waving The Stars and Stripes? Lol

America has already been sliced open by our own domestic enemies. We are in no position spiritually and motivationally to take on a country like Russia.

a reply to: IamAbeliever

I´m happy that US is deploying troops to Poland. I hope soon more will also be sent to Baltic states. Better safe than sorry.

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
I will say one thing, if the west goes to war with Russia it will be the USA and maybe a couple other nations. That's it. We probably would smack Russia around but not without some major battles and setbacks. Americans for the most part are very ignorant not only about Russian capabilities but Russian military experience and tactics. Russia was knee deep in the Chechyn wars throughout the 90s and early 2000s. They were every bit as bloody and probably the Chechyns were as nasty and better fighters than the Taliban. So it's not like Russian military has been sitting on their laurels since WWII. And you think Russia will follow the same ROE as the west? Lol just ask Grozny!!!!!

Russia could destroy us because our nation is bankrupt and rotting on the inside. Americans can't even stand together and force out the illegals and Muslims who have culturally already raged war on our way of life. Russians are very nationalistic people who fight because of Russia. Like the war on terror what the hell reason would Americañs unite behind by ???? You think the 20+ million illegals from south of the border would all of a sudden start waving The Stars and Stripes? Lol

America has already been sliced open by our own domestic enemies. We are in no position spiritually and motivationally to take on a country like Russia.

Much like occupation duties in Iraq and Afganistan the conflict in Chechnya are not perperation for conventional warfare. If you want to know how the Russians are in that area study the conflict in Georgia.

As for the out of left field rant about illegals and muslims? Well guess what Russia has more of in both cases? That is right per population more illegals and way way more muslims. Of course just like in the US those illegals are more than happy to serve in the military to become citizens and are vital to the economy. So yes in both the US and Russia you will find the people who had to risk life and limb to get there are much bigger patriots then people who claim to be sitting around on the internet. Granted I know facts and logic are not likely to get in the way of your silly rants.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: zilebeliveunknown
This is the standard ass-kissing procedure, as this Polish defence minister is another idiotic puppet for the Nato war machine.

So Russia starts wars and NATO is the war machine .. got it.

Am I missing something here?
What war you're talking about?

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
I will say one thing, if the west goes to war with Russia it will be the USA and maybe a couple other nations.

America has already been sliced open by our own domestic enemies. We are in no position spiritually and motivationally to take on a country like Russia.

Well, NATO is more than a couple of countries. I'm not even going to list them, but I consider all of Europe and North America, a more than adequate force to handle Russia in a conventional war. But, no one really wants war. I guess this is why you don't go around invading this, or that country. We are war weary, and have had our best and brightest dying for almost 15 years now in the Middle East. But yeah, we are more than capable of handling Russia.

In the end, America always unites in a crisis. I don't care how many illegals, or domestic terrorists are here. The Constitution layed down by the founding fathers created a country for freedom, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That Constitution is what people fight for, because it embodies one of the most amazing nations on this planet. It may be different now, and in a bad state financially, but I believe in it. I believe this country will return to it's former glory.

We've had two horrible Presidents that have tarnished this country's name, but it's always darkest before sunrise. This country is full of more amazing people, than terrible. No number of naysayers can bring it down. There are too many people here willing to preserve the original intention of the Constitution, and protect America, and the world, from tyranny.

originally posted by: zilebeliveunknown

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: zilebeliveunknown

This is the standard ass-kissing procedure, as this Polish defence minister is another idiotic puppet for the Nato war machine.

So Russia starts wars and NATO is the war machine .. got it.

Am I missing something here?

What war you're talking about?

Look up Georgia and Ukraine/Crimea ... look up Putin/Finland ... look up Poland building up forces to defend against a possible Russian invasion ...

You must be seriously ignorant about the subject. When was the last time Canada or Mexico was afraid of a US invasion to steal their land?

LOL Russia fought the freakin Chenyans and thats "not resting on their laurels since WWII"???? LMAO!!! Gimme a freaking break. This website gets dumber and dumber every day. No wonder no one takes anything on ATS seriously. The low information Voter has now turned into the low information Poster and the numbers of so is SAD.

originally posted by: GreenMtnBoys
I will say one thing, if the west goes to war with Russia it will be the USA and maybe a couple other nations. That's it. We probably would smack Russia around but not without some major battles and setbacks. Americans for the most part are very ignorant not only about Russian capabilities but Russian military experience and tactics. Russia was knee deep in the Chechyn wars throughout the 90s and early 2000s. They were every bit as bloody and probably the Chechyns were as nasty and better fighters than the Taliban. So it's not like Russian military has been sitting on their laurels since WWII. And you think Russia will follow the same ROE as the west? Lol just ask Grozny!!!!!

Russia could destroy us because our nation is bankrupt and rotting on the inside. Americans can't even stand together and force out the illegals and Muslims who have culturally already raged war on our way of life. Russians are very nationalistic people who fight because of Russia. Like the war on terror what the hell reason would Americañs unite behind by ???? You think the 20+ million illegals from south of the border would all of a sudden start waving The Stars and Stripes? Lol

America has already been sliced open by our own domestic enemies. We are in no position spiritually and motivationally to take on a country like Russia.