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Please Help The American Grey Wolves!!!

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posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 11:31 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 11:31 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

This is a very interesting topic to me since I Am moving to the North.

Do you have any links that back up your comments?

In no way trying to be a jerk.

Just wanna read with my own eye's and my own opinion.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 11:36 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 11:38 PM
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**ENOUGH**

The back and forth stops immediately. While the topic may be heated on both sides, there is no need to attack other members.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: Crystalwolf

Were you referring to the Jane valez Mitchell clip? I don't like her if only finds evidence to support her side in all cases I've seen, but I'll cave and watch it.

Parks and recreation recognizes there is an issue. Populations of elk are down and they have attributed it to this species of wolf in some areas (clearly Idaho). I believe the decline was 57%. How they conclude this I don't know but we should trust that.

While some ranchers in my State report low to no wolf activity others seem to be in hot areas. The most recent research I read stated few livestock were lost to wolves when compared to other causes (when actual research was conducted). Clearly there are some ranchers out there who get hit constantly and this has got to be a hardship. Idaho appears to be a bad spot for this. Where are the number lost State wide though - legit stats that can provide a real number that definitively conclude kill by this species of wolf with ranchers? Of course ranchers don't like them so we need stats. Experts who observe/study wolves say footprints aren't enough because they are scavengers so will smell dead prey and investigate.

There are people who study wolves and this is all they do - provide empirical evidence. In these cases they aren't seeing wolves kill and leave their prey but rather state they happen upon already killed animals, or are spooked from the prey. If they kill it they eat it from the resources I've looked at. I'm quite sure there are instances when this happens (they waste), but could it be that it is exaggerated and they have become the catch all/scapegoat? If research is worth anything then yes - it is overstated. They aren't running around killing animals and leaving them to die and rot at the rate that is being implied. Without research to support that I won't believe it, and to do so it to join the crusaders who want to justify their positions.

Stuff like this is meant to rile people up to create a vigilante driven mentality. We see stories like I mentioned earlier - sensationalizing the issue to get people to join the cause. While there is clearly a problem pointed out by experts, this has fueled a hate driven mentality that makes little sense. And of course that hate helps to solve the problem for those who planted them here - thus the push back and controversy. Perhaps it would be more helpful for both sides to stop being so extreme and simply discuss the matter like adults. It's an issue because these wolves are huge and absolutely a top predator. However - some genius put them here so they should use that intellect to remedy the problem. People spreading inaccuracies on any side of the matter is unhelpful.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 11:47 PM
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originally posted by: crappiekat
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

This is a very interesting topic to me since I Am moving to the North.

Do you have any links that back up your comments?

In no way trying to be a jerk.

Just wanna read with my own eye's and my own opinion.


Good lord, I am so sorry. I had no idea, I was walking into something ignorant.


I truelly was looking for information regarding this issue.






posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:13 AM
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originally posted by: Crystalwolf
Wolves do not stalk people, where is your source? a reply to: nugget1



KLEW TV out of Lewiston, Idaho ran the story more than once. Wolves showing up 100 yards from school bus stop, circling. Maybe wolves don't 'stalk', but parents in the rural communities are concerned enough for the safety of their children to patrol the bus stops.

For some reason, they took the wolves behavior to be threatening, and so did a lot of authorities. I guess that's why the news station broadcast repeated warnings of the potential danger.

But, we're not 'city folk', just a bunch of rural hicks living with the wolves, so what do we know?



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:16 AM
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a reply to: UxoriousMagnus




they are not a natural predator in this area.....they were put here by BLM messing with stuff as per usual


If you read and look at the maps wolves are a native species in the USA just different sub groups.

en.wikipedia.org...

I spent my youth in the woods and worked ranches I seen many in the wild . I honestly believe the hype of the evils of wolves is semi solid bovine waste. Worked for a neighbor running 400 head in Co. range had several packs of wolves he lost 2 or 3 a season they usually sick or old. That high country range had the best deer and elk hunting I have ever seen.

When we moved the herd out of the mountains and close to town thats were the losses happened. We spent many a nights killing packs of domesticated dogs gone feral they killed 10 time what wolves did wolves would kill 1 eat it wild dogs were killing 3-4 a night and not even eating them.

I had a Totally different eye witness experience with wolves than your link.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:47 AM
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originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: UxoriousMagnus




they are not a natural predator in this area.....they were put here by BLM messing with stuff as per usual


If you read and look at the maps wolves are a native species in the USA just different sub groups.

en.wikipedia.org...

I spent my youth in the woods and worked ranches I seen many in the wild . I honestly believe the hype of the evils of wolves is semi solid bovine waste. Worked for a neighbor running 400 head in Co. range had several packs of wolves he lost 2 or 3 a season they usually sick or old. That high country range had the best deer and elk hunting I have ever seen.

When we moved the herd out of the mountains and close to town thats were the losses happened. We spent many a nights killing packs of domesticated dogs gone feral they killed 10 time what wolves did wolves would kill 1 eat it wild dogs were killing 3-4 a night and not even eating them.

I had a Totally different eye witness experience with wolves than your link.


that's nice.

we used to have those cute little coyote size wolves here in Idaho too.

but then they brought in the Northern Greys that are the size of a freaking truck.

Not the same animal you have there in Commyrado.....I mean Colorado

I just have to chuckle......people from all over the country telling us in Idaho and Montana what we should or shouldn't do with our wolf PROBLEM. Our unnatural ..... wolf problem.

It is kind of like telling Texas not to kill any hogs. LOL



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:49 AM
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originally posted by: nugget1

originally posted by: Crystalwolf
Wolves do not stalk people, where is your source? a reply to: nugget1



KLEW TV out of Lewiston, Idaho ran the story more than once. Wolves showing up 100 yards from school bus stop, circling. Maybe wolves don't 'stalk', but parents in the rural communities are concerned enough for the safety of their children to patrol the bus stops.

For some reason, they took the wolves behavior to be threatening, and so did a lot of authorities. I guess that's why the news station broadcast repeated warnings of the potential danger.


But, we're not 'city folk', just a bunch of rural hicks living with the wolves, so what do we know?


^This.

I'm the first in line for not hurting animals, etc.(long time Vegetarian/Animal Rights Activist). However, it was first hand experience that brought myself to the conclusion(2008 or so) of what the wolves were doing and that it is not right. Further study, info local and online(that had deemed their reintroduction a “nonessential experimental” species), brought up the concern of these non natives wolves. They posted danger to people on rural land but wildlife, domestic animals as well.

Not only did they kill our local moose calf who we watched grow, other wildlife for sport(hunting practice for pups), as didn't even eat him, they had attacked nearly ourselves and have went ofter our dogs. They had chased them down on our land here in N. Idaho and even attacked one-but got away more scared than scathed luckily. For God sakes my in-laws sibling's kids were living there/visiting, should we have just rallied hunters, neighbors or ourselves to stand down?

While large wolves, I will say there were photo shopped pictures going around at the time making them look larger. Other than that, these wolves pose a concern, as beautiful and majestic as they are.

Welcome to ATS OP, but this reply isn't trolling nor are others, this is people in the areas first hand experiences.
edit on 19-4-2014 by dreamingawake because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: nugget1

In my town there was a mountain lion seen by children at a bus stop this last winter. We live near the woods, although in a small city, so people know if something like this happens it is part of the deal of living this close to wildlife. The good part was people knew in advance. If the animal meant to kill (had seen the children as prey and a target ), there would have been no warning.

"In North America, where there are about 60,000 wolves, two human deaths have been attributed to wolves in the past 60 years." westernwildlife.org...

"At least 20 people in North America were killed by cougars between 1890 and 2011." en.wikipedia.org...

"Black bears have killed 61 people across North America since 1900." www.bear.org...

"Wild wolves generally fear people and rarely pose a threat to human safety."
westernwildlife.org...

In my experience we get warnings like this from our news stations at least once a year. How much of this news cast alarm is about the clear disdain for wolves in this area - seeing it as the worst predator out there, and how much has to do with it being highly unusual and out of the norm until these wolfs came along? Anyone who lives near these areas sees dangerous wildlife from time to time. It doesn't mean they are stalking but rather we live in their backyards and they wander in. If they wanted to attack - they would have done so. Clearly wolves don't kill humans as a way of life given the small number of deaths by them.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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I completely agree with you. There has rarely been a healthy wolf attacking humans, probably from self-defense if anything. a reply to: Dianec



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 01:52 AM
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a reply to: Dianec


When wolves start hanging out around small towns of anywhere from 300 to 2,000 people, instead of out in the MANY acres of surrounding woods, it isn't something we're used to seeing.
When they start coming into town at night, killing cats and dogs, it upsets the people living in these communities.
When they start appearing morning after morning very close to school bus stops where small children are gathered, nobody feels comfortable enough to find out if they are just 'curious'.

They ARE moving closer and closer to residential areas, and that poses a threat. That's why F&W went on a big, expensive air hunt last year to eliminate several packs. I can't remember the ungodly sum it cost the tax payers for a few select people to go on their 'hunting party'.

There is enough wilderness and ranch land to where you'd think the wolves would avoid populated areas, but they don't. It's very unnerving to know that wolves are encroaching on populated areas.
When cougars start appearing at bus stops, F&W comes out and bags them.

Species evolve, and wolves appear to be loosing their tendency to avoid humans. I personally think that is cause for concern.

We camp in remote areas where I am used to seeing deer, elk and moose several times a day. For the past two years, I have not seen a single one. Not one moose. Not one deer. Not one elk. Even F&W say the wolves have decimated the
population, but they could just be mistaken. All I know is the wolves arrived, the game are gone.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 01:58 AM
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You claim that wolves where 100 feet from the school bus, but did the wolves actually attack the kids? a reply to: dreamingawake



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: UxoriousMagnus





but then they brought in the Northern Greys that are the size of a freaking truck.


okay truck sized




The northwestern wolf is one of the largest gray wolves in North America, and varies greatly in color from black to pure white.[2] The average weight of 147 wolves captured in Denali National park between 1986 and 1994 was 40 kilograms (88 lb) (104 lb) for males.


en.wikipedia.org...



This subspecies generally weighs 70–150 pounds (32–68 kg) and stands at 26–32 inches, making it one of the largest subspecies of the gray wolf in existence.[10] It is a lighter colored animal than its southern brethren, the Southern Rocky Mountains wolf, with a coat that includes far more white and less black. In general, the subspecies favors lighter colors, with black mixing in among them.[1][5]




Early recorded history of the Northern Rocky Mountain wolf found it roaming primarily in the forests that would later become known as Yellowstone National Park. They resided nearby Native Americans of the Tukudika tribe, who considered the wolf to be a sacred animal.[10] As the American population began spreading west in the late 19th century, ranchers, farmers, and cattle drivers began to settle in the area. In due time, the Northern Rocky Mountains wolf began preying on the livestock brought by the settlers. A practice of eradication was enacted in 1915,[11] through the use of guns, traps, and poison. This policy was made even more all encompassing by the creation of the National Park Service in 1916, which regulated control over the land in Yellowstone and authorized through the National Park Service Organic Act the "destruction of such animals and such plant life that may be detrimental".[4] By 1924, the last known wolves in the bounds of Yellowstone were killed, though small numbers of the Northern Rocky Mountains wolf survived in outlying are


en.wikipedia.org...

Now these are native to yellow stone and sawtooth mountains Idaho and Wyoming and Montana

still not seeing truck sized

This is what was native in Idaho




The Southern Rocky Mountains wolf was a medium-size wolf that weighed around 90 lbs on average.[10][11] It is considered to have been the "second largest wolf in the United States".[12] The coloring of the subspecies tended toward black, with lighter areas on the edges of its fur and white in various small patches.[2]


en.wikipedia.org...
Colorado wolf I am acquainted with .
The wolf that is



Grey wolf packs were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park and Idaho starting in 1995. The subspecies native to the Yellowstone area prior to extirpation was the Northern Rocky Mountains wolf (Canis lupus irremotus) however the species that was reintroduced was the Mackenzie Valley wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis). These wolves were considered as “experimental, non-essential” populations per article 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act (ESA). Such classification gave government officials greater leeway in managing wolves to protect livestock, which was considered one of a series of compromises wolf reintroduction proponents made with concerned local ranchers.


en.wikipedia.org...

Northern Rocky Mountains wolf = Canis lupus irremotus
Northwestern wolf = Canis lupus occidentalis

So actually the replacements are smaller than the native species .

Most Texans kill hogs and they eat them just like deer elk.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: nugget1





There is enough wilderness and ranch land to where you'd think the wolves would avoid populated areas, but they don't. It's very unnerving to know that wolves are encroaching on populated areas.


Appreciated the feedback, as it is concerning when they are spotted near human populations but they don't "know" the boundaries you speak of. But no, I don't think in the way you suggest - that they should know to stay to "their" land. It is not as if they say "hey, we have this whole forest but let's go to their land and brutalize them". They do read the sign placed up "humans ahead", but not as you and I read a sign. They are afraid of unnatural light and human noise. If they are hunting in your neck of the woods it is because it is literally in the woods. Much of the speak by people assume they think like we do, and they don't. They don't see a chained up dog or other domestic animal as sacred to us and choose to kill them with the intellect assumed. They see it and kill it - their instinct tells them to do it for whatever reason. So do bobcats, coyotes, and wild dogs.

Again - I can see that overpopulation is the issue, as decided by parks and recc but this talk of them doing evil deeds as if they could choose otherwise bothers me. Of interest is that their instinct does not tell them to kill humans on a regular basis. If they are killing pets it is because it looks like a predator.

If they are moving down into towns that do have lots of human noise and lights to hunt it means their food supply further up is dwindling or different packs have pushed them out. It's been decided at this time it is due to overpopulation so it is probably both. If something else is killing the elk we aren't hearing about it so something needs to be done based on findings. That is it. The big bad wolf mythology doesn't help anyone - exaggerating and spreading hate and intolerance for wolves in general. That is what I hear when I see snippets thrown into conversations that are not grounded in reality. It simply creates mobs of people who learn to hate this animal. That in turn creates a push back by conservative groups.
edit on 19-4-2014 by Dianec because: Grammar corrections.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: dreamingawake
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Welcome to ATS OP, but this reply isn't trolling nor are others, this is people in the areas first hand experiences.


The guy that keeps responding is a clearly hunter in Idaho and has only one agenda.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: Crystalwolf

Perhaps. I've seen this sort of thinking so hope you're wrong. The fear and hate of wolves isn't respected by most where I live - the blind "kill them all" thinking. I'm not picking up on that yet but I am picking up on "the wolf as a dangerous enemy" message that many attempt to spread. I have friends near Bomners Ferry Idaho, in Grangeville, and all throughout Montana, and none of them hate the wolf. Some see them as an issue with population because it has been concluded that this is the problem, but none hear the word wolf and run for their gun. I've seen this type of person though - and thankfully they are rare.

Myths come from truths and create stigmas that last generations. That is what we should fight. That's why I keep catching these ridiculous remarks thrown in with truths or unsubstantiated claims.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Crystalwolf

originally posted by: dreamingawake
[

Welcome to ATS OP, but this reply isn't trolling nor are others, this is people in the areas first hand experiences.


The guy that keeps responding is a clearly hunter in Idaho and has only one agenda.


and whats my agenda?

I think ive stated fairly openly and honestly where I stand, and that im definitely a conservationist.......

Just because you dont like my answers or the facts doesnt mean im out to slaughter wolves or wipe out a species....

You need to look at things objectively, IMHO your heart is in the right place, but one must weigh truth over emotional reactions........



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Since you know a lot about this I was wondering if they require hunters to kill the whole pack or to stay away from the alpha. I know that might sound silly, and impossible perhaps, but there are rules on elk and deer so how does it work with wolves. I ask because I know if they kill the alpha it can create a unstable and confused pack of wolves.

Thanks.



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