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A Threat to American Democracy

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posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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Just his attitude on the comments I see what you are saying.. And him not being from the US wtf does he care..
a reply to: ThichHeaded

Well....whether you understand it or not is irrelevant....the point is...I do care.

As for your first statement...do not mistake my passion for stupidity. NOBODY wins in a shooting war. Americans...always going straight to the armed revolt card....but I don't blame you for it...not entirely.

It seems to be the only way your government knows how to deal with a problem....fortunately, as a Canadian...armed conflict is the LAST THING I WANT TO SEE.

Do I make myself clear on that point????




posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:24 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: deadcalm

Is Tonga in Canada????



Its right next to Cincinnati Canada check it..




posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:32 PM
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Its right next to Cincinnati Canada check it..
a reply to: ThichHeaded

As much as I love juvenile sarcasm...

You don't suppose a Canadian...like myself...retired with not a lot to do during the 9 months of winter (I hate snow and cold...had a lifetime of it)...could buy a plane ticket, and spend some time in a place where snot DOESN'T freeze to my face when I walk out the door??

I realize not many Americans travel abroad....I've always loved to travel.

I highly recommend the south pacific....it's beautiful and the people are very friendly.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:40 PM
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a reply to: deadcalm

To answer your question, we are all well the liberty loving people and people who want to go back to what the Constitution states are going to sit around like those people at Kent state and sing come by ya till everyone one of us are dead..

We know what is in the cards, we know how screwed up things are, we are going to take things as they are..

if things happen it is a good reason it happens..

Remember we dont pick the reason things go as they do the reason picks us..

Just because people are screaming KILL THIS KILL THAT!!! not all of us think like that.. But we also know there is no f**king way in hell we can stop it if it gets like that.. After the 1st shot is fired we have no choice but to either defend or be dead.. its as simple as that..

There is a reason why the founding fathers in this country gave us the Bill of Rights.. If all the other amendments failed we can always fall on the one we wish we never needed..

And the guy in the video I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.. Like all politicians(except 1) are bought and paid for.

Is this the answer you was looking for? I for 1 am not looking forward to what could have happened in NV.. just saying..
edit on 4/17/2014 by ThichHeaded because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:54 PM
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But we also know there is no f**king way in hell we can stop it if it gets like that.. After the 1st shot is fired we have no choice but to either defend or be dead.. its as simple as that..
a reply to: ThichHeaded

Couldn't agree more...not sure why people think that by "fight", I mean to condone an armed revolt. I'm not interested in seeing more people die...like most of my countrymen...I just want to see people live free, happy, peaceful lives.




If all the other amendments failed we can always fall on the one we wish we never needed..


The point of my post...and I believe the point that Mr. Sanders was making....is that the Constitution HAS failed. He is trying to point out the massive inequality of wealth, and the very real effects it is having on your Republic/ democratic process/ representative gov....or whatever you want to call it. As I pointed out in the original OP....so much money in the hands of so few, and their unlimited ability to buy off your politicians is killing any chance you have at fair representation.

I too hope that it doesn't have to come to a bloody civil war....which is WHY I posted the vid in the first place.




And the guy in the video I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him


Forget the man then...and focus on the MESSAGE.




Is this the answer you was looking for?


All I wanted were your honest thoughts on the matter....the rest of the sarcasm....not so much.

Thanks for contributing to the thread.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: amfirst1
That's what happens when u keep calling America a Democracy. It empowers the wealthy to vote themselves some more advantages.


Yeah, The fact that most people think this country is a democracy means we have already lost any hope of getting back on track.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: deadcalm

I am not trying to be rude with my comment so please don't take it that way. I just wanted to respond to this.




Forget the man then...and focus on the MESSAGE.



The message is always the same.

The message this time was,

"A change we can believe in".

Where is the change?

It is always the same talk from both sides, someone with the most money wins and all the "change" talk gets lodt in partisan BS.

There will be no change. The only change is money from our pockets to "theirs". As usual we will be defenseless against an ever worsening political environment, because while some small battles for freedom can be won, the rest of the population doesn't have the balls to stand up and make a difference. There are 300,000,000 plus people herr in the states. It is going to take at least half that amount to make the difference.

Just look around. Not just in your neighborhood, but hundreds or thousands of miles away. People don't really care to do anything about an "isolated incident" across the country. They have to go to work to pay the bills. Then when they get home they are too tired to do anything but prepare for the next day.

People can sound good and make sense on tv, youtube, newspapers, and the internet, but when it comes down to it it is just words that nothing will come of it.

Just my opinion on the matter. The majority of the people around here don't care about some cattle rancher fighting for his beliefs, they are tuned into the ballgame.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen




LOL Bernie Sanders harping about his perceptions of obvious failures and casting a grand illusion that Democrats will somehow save the day (again) just like they did(?) when they had control of Congress from 2007 thru 2010.

He is campaigning for Democrats. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


I know you're a staunch conservative just by reading your threads, but do you ever recognize the wrongs of your own party? There's a lot of truth in what Sanders was saying. Do you really agree that corporations should be allowed to donate as much as they want to a candidate? That's simply allowing corporations to control an election! I find it obscene that our courts would give that kind of government control to the wealthy!

Do you think it's right that these multi-billion corporation didn't pay a penny in taxes? Tell that to the millions of people who sweat as tax season approaches, hoping they have enough to pay their taxes.

Do you honestly think cutting education will help keep America's economy strong and be a leader in innovation? Incompetency and a poor education system is a recipe for a country's economic status and decline.

Do you think it's fair that these companies like Walmart who are making billions in profits due to the hard work of their employees should pay them wages that they can barely live on? They can't make their billions without their workers. Where's the compassion, respect and gratitude for their workers?

Instead of attacking Bernie Sanders because you're upset with his attacks on republicans, maybe you should look beyond the party label and listen to it with unbiased criticism. Both party's have a lot of faults, but there are some issues that reach across both isles. I really doubt the average republican voter wants a government ran by the richest corporations.

At least Sanders has the gonads to call out the supreme court ruling on corporations. Our other representatives, democrat and republicans, are just sitting on their hands and allowing American citizens to lose a voice in their own government.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: liejunkie01

No offense taken...I've been called much worse by folks I liked half as much.




The message this time was,

"A change we can believe in".


No...in fact it wasn't. What he was trying to convey...was that there is a massive wealth inequality in the US, whereby the rich reap all the gains....the middle class slip into poverty....and politicians go to the highest bidder.

He laid out just how far the gap has grown...he asked his fellow house members if this was really the kind of country they wanted to live in....a country where the rich rule us through massive campaign donations....and no matter how hard we work...no matter how productive we are....we are gaining nothing.

He was doing what all real representatives SHOULD be doing...that is fighting for the well being of the people he SERVES. He spoke with passion and conviction....a rare thing indeed in Washington.




There will be no change.


No....not unless you force them to change. Waiting for a politician to do it for you is a fools errand....and will only end in dissappointment.




Just my opinion on the matter.


Thank you for sharing it with me....however I cannot condone it. What is done is done....time to move forward and tackle the problem.
edit on 17America/Chicagopm172014-04-17T20:44:39-05:00pmThursday04 by deadcalm because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: deadcalm

If you all work together....they cannot simply ignore you. If they do more drastic measures may be required. Mass civil disobedience....get 20 million freedom minded Americans to peacefully surround the White House and refuse to leave until their CLEARLY STATED demands are met. The moment they crack down or kill someone...they will have lost the support of even the most ardent government supporters.


If the path to change that Americans decide on is to surround the White House and sing kumbaya until an empty promise is issued then the feds can simply ignore us no matter how many people take part because if that movement follows historical trends then the organization behind it would disband once the event occurs and organization is the most important thing when participating in politics.

Most of us realize that there is something wrong at the federal level right now, I personally miss the days when some Congresscritters writing bad checks at the House Post Office was considered to be a huge scandal, but things don't change overnight and they aren't fixed overnight.

I'm fascinated by people, especially foreigners, who always focus on our federal government and think that the nation begins and ends with Washington DC. My municipal government is pretty good and it is open and transparent to the local residents. My county government is outstanding, I believe one of the best in the country. My state government has it's problems but I know that if I want to I can get a meeting with my state rep and my state senator. When the federal government begins to change, and it will be forced to, it'll be because of pushback from those existing political organizational units not because some Marxist hippies decided to make a daisy-chain around the White House.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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Yeah, The fact that most people think this country is a democracy means we have already lost any hope of getting back on track.
a reply to: mwood

Your country was founded on Republican principals...just because you are a democracy as well doesn't invalidate that...the two are not mutually exclusive.

As for the hopelessness......thats exactly what they want you to think. They do not want you to realize the power that you truly have....because the minute you do...they have lost....and they know it. It what they fear above all else.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:57 PM
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If the path to change that Americans decide on is to surround the White House and sing kumbaya until an empty promise is issued then the feds can simply ignore us no matter how many people take part because if that movement follows historical trends then the organization behind it would disband once the event occurs and organization is the most important thing when participating in politics.
a reply to: Goteborg

Fair enough. What do you suggest?

Or is all that you can do is just roll over and wait for the end to come?




I'm fascinated by people, especially foreigners, who always focus on our federal government and think that the nation begins and ends with Washington DC


Perhaps...as an independant observer...an ousider looking in, if you will....gives me a unique perspective that you lack??

The rot in Washington will eventually trickle down to the state and municipal level...history has shown that corruption ALWAYS SPREADS. Best to deal with the biggest issues first. Waiting for something to happen....pretty much guarantees nothing will.




it'll be because of pushback from those existing political organizational units not because some Marxist hippies decided to make a daisy-chain around the White House.


I as much as I enjoy your sarcasm and derision with the hippy daisy chain comments....share how you see your state and local govs being able to help you regain control of your government at the federal level.

I'm all ears.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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originally posted by: deadcalm

Fair enough. What do you suggest?

Or is all that you can do is just roll over and wait for the end to come?



You already know what I suggested. You broke my post apart and quoted this earlier part, suggested that I didn't offer a viewpoint on the issue while knowing full well that I had later given an opinion on this.


originally posted by: deadcalm
Perhaps...as an independant observer...an ousider looking in, if you will....gives me a unique perspective that you lack??

The rot in Washington will eventually trickle down to the state and municipal level...history has shown that corruption ALWAYS SPREADS. Best to deal with the biggest issues first. Waiting for something to happen....pretty much guarantees nothing will.


Washington has always been rotting, the degree of rot goes through cycles. As for your independent observer status, I see no need to revise my opinion because I dealt with your opinion head on; I think the solution offered was naïve and I stated exactly why. The fact that you asked me to assign some sort of authority to your opinion due to your nationality instead of dealing with my criticism of your suggestion speaks volumes.


originally posted by: deadcalm
I as much as I enjoy your sarcasm and derision with the hippy daisy chain comments....share how you see your state and local govs being able to help you regain control of your government at the federal level.

I'm all ears.



By doing the same things they've always done. You do know that in the United States various levels of government sue each other all of the time, right? Another interesting thing that happens in cycles in this country is dominance within the two major political parties switches between the federal and state level, right now we're in the middle of a swing to the state level especially in the GOP.


I speak with derision for a reason. It's possible that you're well meaning but it's also possible that you're one of those people who want to see American society set itself on fire and then rip apart purely for your amusement and you know those people are out there. Either way, I'd rather go with organization over emotion as far as political change is concerned, without organization in politics you're just spinning your wheels.








posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:46 PM
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Don't have the time to watch the video right now but I always like to hear what an independent member of Congress has to say.
As for voting and the left/right stuff---only when we vote on paper ballots that are counted by humans while being observed by humans, will we get a real picture of what the voters want. So long as the votes are on machines which can be hacked, we won't have an honest count.
Paper ballots---counted by humans---watched by humans. All sides watching. That must the first order of business.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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You all get hung up on that word democracy again and start harping on about it like a pack of seagulls, meanwhile while you were all squabbling you let Koch and his friends form a political party full of billionaires.
nymag.com...
do any of you even understand the ramifications of that.......crickets. it's not like you were warned by anyone important:




posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 11:02 PM
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a reply to: PLAYERONE01

What do you mean by crickets? The "Tea Party" is the most analyzed political faction in the nation right now and the Koch brothers motivations have been heavily speculated on.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: Goteborg
a reply to: PLAYERONE01

What do you mean by crickets? The "Tea Party" is the most analyzed political faction in the nation right now and the Koch brothers motivations have been heavily speculated on.



Ok then. So what has all that speculation and analysis shown to you as far as what they are planning for the future Political Game being played???

Just saying, "well, they're being watched and reported on" doesn't really say anything.

I'd like to know. In you opinion, where do you think they are headed by helping create this new Party??? How does that tie in with Citizens United??? How about some of the other "Political Think Tanks" and Organizations funded by them, where do you think they are heading and for what purpose???
edit on 17-4-2014 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Why are you asking for analysis? The person I responded to was saying that no one was paying attention, I took issue with that. If you want to go down a tangent with me about "Tea Party" philosophy and goals that's OK but don't start taking me to task for things I didn't bring up in the first place.

Just to be clear, you're not suggesting that people aren't paying attention to the TP are you? Are you saying that the Koch brothers have successfully pulled the wool over people's eyes?



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: Goteborg
a reply to: mOjOm

Why are you asking for analysis? The person I responded to was saying that no one was paying attention, I took issue with that. If you want to go down a tangent with me about "Tea Party" philosophy and goals that's OK but don't start taking me to task for things I didn't bring up in the first place.

Just to be clear, you're not suggesting that people aren't paying attention to the TP are you? Are you saying that the Koch brothers have successfully pulled the wool over people's eyes?



No need to get defensive. Not yet anyway...


No, I'm honestly asking you what your opinion is. You seem very intelligent this far and confident in your view of things. So I'm wondering what you see in the bigger picture here. Not so much dealing with the Tea Party and it's members exactly, but possibly those behind it. Mostly with the Koch Bro's and their interests within the Politics here in America and what may be the motivation for all of it.

I'm not trying to be sneaky or trick you into anything, seriously. I don't know where you stand politically either and really don't care too much. I'm just curious what you view, generally and big picture wise as to what is happening. Not with just the Koch's either, although they are major players in it.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I think the Koch brothers are a non-issue. Yes, they're billionaires but others in the political spectrum are also billionaires and have their pet think tanks too so the Koch brothers are balanced out.

As far as the "Tea Party" is concerned, I think their leadership is opportunistic more than anything else. The people I know personally who self-identify as "Tea Party" are pretty decent people and are frustrated and concerned about the way our federal government is headed. I disagree with some of their beliefs, for example I'm far more Keynesian than they are and I also have had many interesting arguments with some of them about the Gold Standard (I see no need for it).

The "Tea Party" is a Frankenstein's Monster, whatever the reasoning behind it's origin the fact is that the TP connected with a lot of Americans who felt disenfranchised but now feel like they have an organization they can use to make their opinions heard and the TP is here to stay regardless of what the Koch brothers intend because it connected with too many Americans to just go away.






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