Quran Declares Holy Land Given To The Israelites .... but "With Conditions"

originally posted by: Logarock
Yes he is correct and they were tossed. But, they were also promised a day of restoration and brought back to the land. Its very clear. See Ezekiel. Read the whole thing carefully.

No State of Israel is legitimate under anything around Jewish Law or the Law of God. This Israel isn't the Israel spoken about in any of the scriptures. This Israel is an imposter.

a reply to: RocksFromSpace
Paul was a false jew. He hate Christians and Jesus. Christians were killed and tortured. Suddenly He claimed that he saw Jesus without any proof then he entered Christianity and He opposed saint Peter. While Jesus had given Christianity to saint Peter. most of nowadays Christianity is from Paul. it is altered. it is mixed with Egyptian culture which false jews had brought from their former home Egypt.
and now look at how this site is full of nonsenses about Jesus. nonsenses that he was a God of Greek or Egypt.
look at how Paul and false jews are successful to alter Christianity and cleaning the trace of Jesus. While he is alive. of course true jews are still faightful but we can not ignore what false jews have done to Christianity.
see how Jesus is alone even among those who claim they are followers of Jesus.
they alter the divine books. they mistranslate the divine books in order to hide the truths.

for example look at these verses of Torah : Isaiah 21:7
look at how they translate this :
"When he sees chariots with teams of horses, riders on donkeys or riders on camels, let him be alert, fully alert."

swear to God this is mistranslated. someone who is a bit familiar with Hebrew, Arabic and old eastern languages can understand that this is mistranslated. even you yourself can study and know how it is mistranslated. it is betraying Jesus.
what I see in that verse is this :

"And he saw a couple of horsemen one riding a donkey and one riding a camel and he listened diligently ......"

yes the man riding the donkey is Jesus. they are betraying Jesus. one of signs of Jesus was that he entered Jerusalem riding a donkey. you can read it in Matthew 21.

a reply to: maes2

It's weird because Paul actually admits that he was against Christ in Timothy

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, Although I was formely a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. Tim 1;12-13

So it's not like he has gone and changed what was supposed to be taught, he admits that in the past he was an unbeliever.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
So you disagree with the teachings of the Bible yet call yourself a Christian? Christianity came from the Old Testament.

1 - This is not a religious forum. It's POLITICAL ideology.
2 - I am not the topic, the OPs video is. Stay on topic.
3 - Jesus teachings are capable of standing on their own. Belief in the Old Testament myths, allegories, and folklores are NOT a requirement for Christianity. This has been discussed in the RELIGION forum. If you feel the need to dispute that, then take it to the religion forum.

But didn't Jesus believe in and quote from the OT?

a reply to: maes2

OK so who's the one riding the camel?

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: maes2

It's weird because Paul actually admits that he was against Christ in Timothy

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, Although I was formely a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. Tim 1;12-13

So it's not like he has gone and changed what was supposed to be taught, he admits that in the past he was an unbeliever.

yes of course Paul has confessed his enmity against Christianity. and he claimed that he was changed and he became a true Christian.
suppose that Paul was a righteous man but how can we justify the thoughts that he imposed on first Christianity and his conflicts with disciples prticularly saint Peter.
for example Tom O'Golo in the book Christ? No! Jesus?, he counts the thoughts which Paul imposed on Christianity for example :
The Original Sin, and that there is no need for Circumcision and that Jesus is a God and such things.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: FlyersFan

Why do you atheist's even comment? Aren't there better threads you could be putting your atheist opinion towards?

Why aren't atheists allowed to comment, in your opinion, on a political thread? Is it because it deals with religions? So religions are only allowed to be talked about by the religious folks?

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: Logarock
Yes he is correct and they were tossed. But, they were also promised a day of restoration and brought back to the land. Its very clear. See Ezekiel. Read the whole thing carefully.

No State of Israel is legitimate under anything around Jewish Law or the Law of God. This Israel isn't the Israel spoken about in any of the scriptures. This Israel is an imposter.

Would you say then this state of Israel is an Antichrist?

X

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: DarknStormy

Why aren't atheists allowed to comment, in your opinion, on a political thread? Is it because it deals with religions? So religions are only allowed to be talked about by the religious folks?

.... so declares a Muslim. No surprise. Does he want to move in?

What sort of comment is that? To me that is the comment of someone who hates Muslims and will do anything to degrade their position. I find it offensive because I have followed this man for the past 7 years and understand all of his work to the tee. If you want to say the above, go somewhere else and do it because this man is very intelligent and unlike some people who comment on these threads. If people want to insult Religious scholars, then be prepared to get insulted right back. If you don't like or believe religious perspective, then stop wasting your time. I know this may be a Political forum but I can tell you right now the man in the video is from a religious perspective and Islam at that.



Not bad for some stupid deluded Muslim...

originally posted by: Xcouncil=wisdom

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: Logarock
Yes he is correct and they were tossed. But, they were also promised a day of restoration and brought back to the land. Its very clear. See Ezekiel. Read the whole thing carefully.

No State of Israel is legitimate under anything around Jewish Law or the Law of God. This Israel isn't the Israel spoken about in any of the scriptures. This Israel is an imposter.

Would you say then this state of Israel is an Antichrist?

X

The State of Israel is destined to usher in the Antichrist and the very reason is exactly what Hosein is referring to in the video. Israel were banned not for 1 year, not for 10 years, not even 2000, for the rest of time until the return of the Messiah because they didn't uphold the religious laws and became corrupt.

The truth of the matter is Israel is allowing certain things which are condemned through the Torah, Homosexuality, Usury and other acts also. How can the leaders of Israel be religious when they put their own beliefs above that of the Torah? They are not righteous Jews and Palestine is a perfect example of why.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
originally posted by: DarknStormy

Why aren't atheists allowed to comment, in your opinion, on a political thread? Is it because it deals with religions? So religions are only allowed to be talked about by the religious folks?

.... so declares a Muslim. No surprise. Does he want to move in?

What sort of comment is that? To me that is the comment of someone who hates Muslims and will do anything to degrade their position. I find it offensive because I have followed this man for the past 7 years and understand all of his work to the tee. If you want to say the above, go somewhere else and do it because this man is very intelligent and unlike some people who comment on these threads. If people want to insult Religious scholars, then be prepared to get insulted right back. If you don't like or believe religious perspective, then stop wasting your time. I know this may be a Political forum but I can tell you right now the man in the video is from a religious perspective and Islam at that.

Not bad for some stupid deluded Muslim...

None of this angry rant answers my question on why you think atheists aren't allowed to comment on threads such as this. In fact it has literally NOTHING to do with my post. So I ask again, why do you think atheists aren't allowed to comment on a religious thread such as this?

One more thing, I said nothing offensive about muslims or even said the word muslim, don't lump me together with another poster who dismisses his argument based on that fallacy. You are offended that the poster ridiculed your muslim scholar hero? Well I'm offended that you seem to think that my opinion on the topic is irrelevant and not worth your time even though you haven't even heard it, you've just made assumptions about what I will say and have gotten offended by them. How about instead of jumping to conclusions, you start with answering my questions first?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Who the hell are you? I don't have to answer none of your questions.. I can't stop anyone from commenting on these threads, but why waste your time commenting when its just going to be cheap shots at religion especially when you are Anti Muslim and couldn't give a toss about the material being presented? I couldn't really care what you think or what answer your looking for, I'm here to chat with people who are interested in the subject.

I understand you didn't say anything offensive about Muslims, but someone else does it all the time yet doesn't understand let alone care about Islamic literature or it's teachings and it makes me wonder why they bother commenting when they couldn't care in the first place...

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Who the hell are you? I don't have to answer none of your questions.. I can't stop anyone from commenting on these threads, but why waste your time commenting when its just going to be cheap shots at religion especially when you are Anti Muslim and couldn't give a toss about the material being presented? I couldn't really care what you think or what answer your looking for, I'm here to chat with people who are interested in the subject.

Who am I? I'm just a poster on the internet, but as I haven't said anything overly offensive and am trying to be polite and civil, I would have thought you would extend the same courtesy to me. Apparently I was wrong in that assumption.

Being atheist doesn't mean that a person doesn't care about religions. In fact I find the opposite is usually true. These people tend to know more about ALL religions since they have looked at all of them and found them lacking, hence their overall disbelief in a deity.

As for the cheap shots, well its the internet. You have to take the good with the bad. Just because people from the atheist camp may throw some cheap shots at religion doesn't mean you should write off the whole group's opinion. For all you know, one of them could be more learned about Islam than you are and give you a decent opinion, but your hostility is only going to invite more trolls and derisive behavior. Or are you only looking for an echo chamber? The way you attacked FlyersFan (first assuming she was an atheist), suggests you don't want to entertain any dissenting opinions and feel that they are a waste of time. This is why I asked the question in the first place.

I understand you didn't say anything offensive about Muslims, but someone else does it all the time yet doesn't understand let alone care about Islamic literature or it's teachings and it makes me wonder why they bother commenting when they couldn't care in the first place...

Again, it's the internet. It is just part of the atmosphere. Trolls are everywhere and exist in every group of people. I can find instances of religious types trolling atheists (in fact I am aware of a rather large one occurring on a different thread that lasted several pages if it still isn't going on that happened a few days ago), but I don't write off the opinions of every religious person because of the actions of a few. I let their words speak for them first before I write them off.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
What sort of comment is that? To me that is the comment of someone who hates Muslims and will do anything to degrade their position. I find it offensive .... .

1 - You quoted MY comment and put it under someone else's name (Krazyshot). You got that wrong.

2 - My comment stands. This Muslim 'scholar' is trying to say that the Jewish claim on the land is null and void because the Jews supposedly misbehaved. So the question I asked is rock solid ... 'does he want to move in'. What's his agenda for saying the Jews can't claim the land? The obvious answer ... so others can move in.

3 - No one here cares if you are 'offended' at a legitimate question about the agenda of the man in the opening post video. Obviously you are biased in favor of the guy in the video since you have ... and I quote .... 'FOLLOWED HIM for SEVEN YEARS'.

a reply to: DarknStormy
1 - NONE of what you posted was on topic.
2 - You shouldn't assume to know what another poster is interested in or not. And btw - you are dead wrong on your assumptions.
3 - Get a grip and address the subject that I raised ... If this MUSLIM 'scholar' claims that the Jews gave up their (alleged) God-given right to the land, then WHO does he think has a right to it? Muslims? And you don't see any agenda there, eh? Yeah ... okay. /sarcasm.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Sorry for being offensive, but here's the credentials of this man just so you know that he is not some fundamentalist Muslim trying to wage war and take over Israel.

He was born in the Caribbean island of Trinidad in 1942 from parents whose ancestors had migrated as indentured labourer from India. He is a graduate of the Aleemiyah Institute in Karachi and has studied at sevaral institutions of higher learning including the University of Karachi,the University of the West Indies, Al Azhar University and the Graduate Institute of International Relations in Switzerland.

He also lived in America for 10 years.

He lived in New York for ten years during which time he served as the Director of Islamic Studies for the Joint Committee of Muslim Organizations of Greater New York. He lectured on Islam in several American and Canadian universities, colleges, churches, synagogues, prisons, community halls, etc. He also participated in many inter-faith dialogues with Christian and Jewish scholars while representing Islam in USA.

He was the Imam, for sometime, at Masjid Dar al-Qur'an in Long Island, New York. He also led the weekly Juma'ah prayers and delivered the sermon at the United Nations headquarters in Manhattan once a month for ten years continuously.

 

He is a former Principal of the Aleemiyah Institute of Islamic Studies in Karachi, Pakistan, Director of Research of the World Muslim Congress in Karachi, Pakistan, Director of the Islamic Institute for Education and Research in Miami, Florida, and Director of D'awah for Tanzeem-e-Islami of North America.

Hopefully this gives you a better understanding of the man in the video and his message.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
If people want to insult Religious scholars, then be prepared to get insulted right back

If people want to insult common sense, then be prepared to get insulted right back. The motto of this forum is to 'deny ignorance', not embrace it. You are welcome to blindly follow any religious leader you wish without questioning motives ... even for seven years as you have admitted to ... but the rest of us dig deeper and look at all motives and agendas involved.

The Jews claim God gave them that land and that they are entitled to it.
The Muslims claim the Jews aren't behaving properly and have given up their claim.
These claims are based on God supposedly promising the land to people 4,000 years ago.
So naturally the question is ... who do the Muslims think should have the land?
Land grab agenda at work ... by both the Jews and the Muslims.

If God really promised the land to a group of people, then no one would be able to take it from them. If God really promised it, then it would be in their hands always. However, that land has been fought over for thousands of years, and it's changed hands many times. Obviously God's promise to deed the land to a certain group of people is highly in question.

a reply to: DarknStormy

That's a good first step. Now ... WHO does he think should be getting the land? And is his opinion based on 4,000 year old ancient documents of an alleged promise from God? And why should anyone in 2014AD care about an unsubstantiated claim from 4000 years ago? It seems that both the Jews and the Muslims are using that alleged promise from God to further their own land grab agendas.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Yes, the promise of that land is in question and when the religious books are referenced, the truth is they have no promise to that land if they are unrighteous. So what this man is saying is that the modern day Israel cannot be legitimate because they were banned from ever returning to that land until the Messiah returned. Obviously the Messiah hasn't returned, or has he? If he hasn't then it can only mean one thing. The Modern day Israel is in fact the Antichrist and it doesn't take much to understand that anyway because they do not consider Jesus as the Messiah, well most of them don't anyway. There Messiah will be the Antichrist.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: DarknStormy

That's a good first step. Now ... WHO does he think should be getting the land? And is his opinion based on 4,000 year old ancient documents of an alleged promise from God? And why should anyone in 2014AD care about an unsubstantiated claim from 4000 years ago? It seems that both the Jews and the Muslims are using that alleged promise from God to further their own land grab agendas.

No, he is merely explaining the situation, he cannot change it or alter it. What is done is done for a reason. It's not about taking the land off the Jews. Islam also recognises the Jews as the people who were promised the holy land but because they were not meant to return, they look at this Israel as an imitation or imposter. So it's not so much that Israel is a country but the way it is operated and who is controlling it. Israel is owned by the Rothschild's.