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Statement re: Bundy Ranch Standoff by Shirley Bundy Cox

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posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: Granite

Sorry about your phone. I use a laptop and the link works fine, I checked it twice. I suspect the link is not set up for mobile viewing.

Here is an excerpt of what the judge said last year.

Judge Jones said he found that “the government and the agents of the government in that locale, sometime in the ’70s and ’80s, entered into a conspiracy, a literal, intentional conspiracy, to deprive the Hages of not only their permit grazing rights, for whatever reason, but also to deprive them of their vested property rights under the takings clause, and I find that that’s a sufficient basis to hold that there is irreparable harm if I don’t … restrain the government from continuing in that conduct.”

In fact, Judge Jones accused the federal bureaucrats of racketeering under the federal RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corruption Organizations) statute, and accused them as well of extortion, mail fraud, and fraud, in an effort “to kill the business of Mr. Hage.”




posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: Destinyone
a reply to: Miniscuzz

OK Mr. *the feds are always right*....

Exclusive: Does Cliven Bundy Have Something Called “Prescriptive Rights”, Why The BLM May Be Afraid To Go To Court

By: Ben Swann Apr 16, 2014


In an exclusive interview with Benswann.com, Montana cattle rancher Todd Devlin says the BLM is now considering new ways of dealing with the Cliven Bundy situation. Devlin, is not just Montana cattle rancher but is also a County Commissioner in Prairie County Montana and he has worked with the Department of Interior, having taught workshops for the agency in the past. Monday, Devlin reached out to his contacts in the Department of the Interior to find out why the Bureau of Land Management has refused to work with Bundy rather than simply attempting to run over him.

Among the questions Devlin asked of the BLM, “Is it possible that this guy (Cliven Bundy) has prescriptive rights?” The response from top officials at the BLM, “We are worried that he might and he might use that defense.”

So what exactly are prescriptive rights? Prescriptive right to property is an easement that gives some one the right to use land owned by someone else for a particular purpose. An example is using a path through Party A’s land to get to your land, a prescriptive easement is allowed which gives the user the right to get to his land through A’s property.

In most states, if a trespass or use of land occurs regularly for at least 5 years without the “owner” of the land taking legal action, prescriptive rights come into play. Because Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees to the BLM in 1993 but continued to use the land for over 20 years, it is possible he now has prescriptive rights to the land. That might explain why the BLM has not taken this issue to court and never bothered to file a lien against the cattle

Read more: benswann.com... Follow us: @BenSwann_ on Twitter


Now, why don't you chase down the court records that show BLM negated Bundy' s prescriptive rights...

Des


Wait lol....did you just try to debunk by using Ben Swann??? Bwahahaha! Your "article" merely poses the question of "IF" Mr. Bundy has those rights....not that he DID. It poses a question in which it does not answer....hardly "proof" of anything besides conjecture...and more obfuscation.

Lemme ask you...If you signed a contract pay X amount of dollars to lease my land for grazing, the moment you refuse to abide by that contract ie: NOT PAY THE AGREED UPON FEES, then the contract is null and void right? This is the reason the courts...two of them...ruled against Mr. Bundy.

Secondly, no other contract or agreement outweighs the Constitution of the State of Nevada. You can do end-arounds and obfuscate all you like, it doesn't change the facts.

So I ask yet again....Did Bundy own that land? If so, please provide a link.
Did Bundy sign any agreement for life grazing rights like many claim? Provide the link if so.


Bundy neglected to abide by the rule of law. He decided that he doesn't recognize the Federal Governments rights to that land which is why he stopped paying. Sadly, the Constitution says differently. How can you guys be all about Constitutional rights and the rights of States and then claim shenanigans when the Constitution IS followed??


edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: govmule
Many ATS members (including me) have the highest respect for retired Judge Andrew Napalitano and would love to see on the Supreme Court soon.
He would ideal as a negotiator for the Bundy family to end this honorably with all parties.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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To drive the point home further:


Bundy has repeatedly been fined for grazing his cattle on the protected land, fines he has not paid since 1993. The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.


1998: A federal judge issues a permanent injunction against Bundy, ordering him to remove his cattle from the federal lands. He lost an appeal to the San Francisco 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He represented himself.


July 2009: The federal government is still fighting with local ranchers. They have signs posted all over the public land, stating that it is off-limits for grazing.


August 2013: A court order says Bundy has 45 days to remove his cattle from federal land.


March 15, 2014: After nearly 20 years, the Bureau of Land Management sends Bundy a letter informing him that they plan to impound his "trespass cattle," which have been roaming on 90 miles of federal land. BLM averages four livestock impoundments a year, usually involving a few dozen animals.


May I direct you to July 2009. At that point, Bundys permit had been pulled for non-payment. The poster that mentioned the Prescriptive Rights Law earlier is forgetting one large point that would have been easy to see had this poster actually taken the time to read what that "law" even says.
There have been signs all over that Federal Land for decades telling people that there was no grazing allowed except for those with permits in good standing. Do you know the ONE thing about Prescriptive Rights in Nevada? They mean nothing if the owners of the land have signs forbidding what you're using the land for.

Please...I am not some tool who types to see the pretty words appear on the screen. I understand you don't like what happened, but Bundy is a low life scum bag who fed off the system and the taxpayers and now wants donations and militias fighting for him. Outrageous, and Ben Franklin would agree. In fact, you all yammer about how people abuse welfare. This guy is no different. He's not paying for use of the land and making more money because of it. How is that fair?

LINK which explains in detail all the chances Mr. Bundy had. Pay particular notice to the fact that Bundy represented himself in court. Why? Because any lawyer would get laughed out of court and he couldn't find one to take the case with the asinine defense Bundy is claiming.

www.washingtonpost.com... ment/


NEXT....
edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:37 PM
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Since this thread is posting statements from involved parties, I wanted to share the statement of a nearby resident from Mesquite, NV; a Bundy neighbor.

I think it's important to get the viewpoint of someone who is impacted by his actions.

Here are a couple of lines. Find the full post here: The Day the Law Died

How naïve of me. I thought laws and court rulings matter. They might in other places, but not here. The rule of law died in the beautiful Virgin Valley on April 12, 2014.


Cliven Bundy won. Through threats of violence fueled by armed militias called in by our local tea party “patriots,” he won. The Bureau of Land Management was forced to dismantle their operation to rectify 20 years of his lawbreaking with court orders to back up removal of his cows from public land because Clark County Sheriff Gillespie made the BLM stand down. He didn’t want a shoot-out on his watch.


edit on 4/17/2014 by Olivine because: add a line

edit on 4/17/2014 by Olivine because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: Miniscuzz
You are missing (or ignoring) a simple fact...
Mr. Bundy has ZERO to do with Fed's as possible.
Why?
Because they are driving him out of business...

But you are sitting there demanding specifics from ATS members who have limited access to Fed records BY DESIGN!



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: Olivine
IMO pretty biased opinion...especially "Tea Party" wording.
Alex Jones explained how progressives talking points are going to demonize Bundy, militias, and Tea Party for starting a new American Revolution.
The low blows begin...



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: Granite

There is a local political program, Ralston Reports, where she was a guest on Sunday. In the video, she states she wrote the blog piece Saturday evening, directly after the stand-off ended. She can hardly be accused of using "progressive talking points". (are there any? I wasn't forwarded a copy, lol)

Granite as a local, is she not entitled to have an opinion? What of her points about the economic impacts to the local community?



edit on 4/17/2014 by Olivine because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: govmule
Many ATS members (including me) have the highest respect for retired Judge Andrew Napalitano and would love to see on the Supreme Court soon.
He would ideal as a negotiator for the Bundy family to end this honorably with all parties.


I like the judge too.

edit on 17-4-2014 by greencmp because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: Olivine
I followed Alex Jones and David Knight exclusively on Saturday all day...their reporting streamed on UStream live for 8 hours. Never once did they mention revolution...verify yourself.
Yet, today MSM and Glen Beck said they did so.
Alex expected MSM lies, but is very hurt by Glen Beck lies...a few callers brought it up in yesterday's show.
We will see what happens soon enough.

A few posters have praised Alex in this and other Bundy threads and I agree 100%.
Matt Drudge would agree too.

edit on 17-4-2014 by Granite because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: govmule
Many ATS members (including me) have the highest respect for retired Judge Andrew Napalitano and would love to see on the Supreme Court soon.
He would ideal as a negotiator for the Bundy family to end this honorably with all parties.

Not me I wish he would run for President and win ! I bet if he said you could keep your Doctor or anything else for that matter you could go to the bank on it !

About the whole Bundy ranch situation. I truly wish there had been a more definite case (more black and white with no gray area) to get everyone stirred up with. As someone else mentioned all it took was a fruit stand in Egypt to get the masses riled up and demand change. However this is what is going on at the moment right or wrong...

Many people appear to be fed up with the "fed" and are itching to make some kind of statement... If the BLM did not fulfill their obligations/contract (land improvement, roads, water) for the taxes collected then I can see how Bundy got pissed and refused to pay them for services not rendered.

The BLM that came to the ranch sure had nice trucks and no doubt military grade Colt ARs and side arms... The video I saw of the bearded BLM dude trying to hold the line tried all the hard looks and and threats to no avail; must have been the cool shades he was wearing?... Very lucky no hot heads on either side started something for if I read the situation correctly there would have been dead bodies for someone to collect on both sides.

Some times the cause of something is not right or wrong it is just the cause with unintended results if history speaks and anyone listens.
edit on 17-4-2014 by 727Sky because: ...



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: 727Sky
He may consider the POTUS too "beneath him after Obama's sullied. the office for eight years.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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If Bundy gets into the White House, I know one thing for sure.

Every Executive Order would have positive impacts on the majority of Americans.

Something Obama has failed to do.

And his wife would at least propose a better lunch program too.....

"BundyBurgers are healthy" would be the theme !!






posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Olivine
IMO pretty biased opinion...especially "Tea Party" wording.
Alex Jones explained how progressives talking points are going to demonize Bundy, militias, and Tea Party for starting a new American Revolution.
The low blows begin...


Unfortunately you are correct. Today, Harry Reid said Americans that supported Bundy are "Domestic Terrorists". Once again, instead of defusing the situation and finding a peaceful solution for everyone, Reid has put more fuel on the fire. He is now directly responsible for any future deaths of Americans that may die because of this totalitarian style statement. And for what, to prove a point? To save some desert land from cattle that have been there 140 years? Reid is a disgusting excuse for a leader, he should be voted out of office by the people of Nevada, if they don't vote him out they will deserve every bit of the corruption he has brought upon them.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:01 PM
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A lot of people are taking a stance behind "the law". Laws are great, sure.. but not all laws are created equal. Just because something is the law doesn't always mean it's right.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: Miniscuzz
don't recall the donating the land comment coming from the defence...
again Ill defer to judge Nepolitano's opinion



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: Granite
Everyone watch for an OP by member BurnTheShips possibly in a few days regarding "BLM Whistleblower" in general conspiracies forum.



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Granite
Everyone watch for an OP by member BurnTheShips possibly in a few days regarding "BLM Whistleblower" in general conspiracies forum.


That one will reveal the things that nobody has talked about yet.

That topic will be dyn-a-mite.






posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 01:06 AM
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originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Granite
Everyone watch for an OP by member BurnTheShips possibly in a few days regarding "BLM Whistleblower" in general conspiracies forum.


Hey guys,

The info here that Granite has sent to me is a potential game changer
in exposing what is more of a hidden agenda in the Bundy/Bunkerville Battle.

I would encourage everyone to get on this as a team. I do have an
engagement this weekend ( as many I am sure do) .

So...I will put this here now and please take this info and someone make
a new thread if that is appropriate.

Breaking Info - Credit and thanks should go to Granite for spotting this tonight.
Great find - worth some time I wish I had more time....


Updated Facts here:




n the 10th we reported the Militia arrived in the area and cited a former BLM volunteer and Nevada Land Broker who revealed to us the true value of the land and the parties interested in it. In our on-going investigation into the money behind the Bundy Ranch Land Grab we present former BLM Volunteer Rusty Hill’s Records Research detailing his first hand experience in the Bunkerville area, its value to the Military Industrial complex – and most notably the corporations that bear Harry Reid’s own name in Bunkerville,- bordering USA lands and the Bundy Ranch.

So why do they want this land? Water, access to land, privacy and mineral rights – notably Magnesium Dolomite with one of its military applications as solid rocket fuel found in Tomahawk cruise missiles – friends it is much more than Chinese solar power.

In this investigation we provide the historical context to the lands around the Bundy Ranch, the mineral value of the land and it’s application in weapons manufacturing.

But here is where it get’s interesting. Using the public records from Clark County we disclose irregularities and anomalies in the public record of the sale prices of land surrounding the Bundy Ranch owned by the BLM, Cedar Development Corp, Zion Bank Corp, Bunkerville Compound LLC, AND Reid Bunkerville LLC who you will discover “paid nothing for the land”
investmentwatchblog.com...


From there some research dug up this:

There are some very interesting details in the following documents,
implicating developments in the Bunkerville area.

Several LLCs with activity scheduled for Bunkerville area,
and Reid is in there.


Meetings are in May 2014 as far as I see...

www.clarkcountynv.gov...

www.wysk.com...

dsnet.co.clark.nv.us...

Finally, a new Video by Clive n Carol Bundy here:



edit on 18-4-2014 by burntheships because: fix typo on year, add source links



posted on Apr, 18 2014 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: burntheships
Thank you much. This deserves and bump.

I'll add a few quotes for those who cannot see the video;


Historical context o the land. Records research-

Resources:
· gas and oil
· "good quality" water,
· minerals- gold, magnesium dolomite,
zinc–sulfur propellants
for solid rocket(see here) fuel for Tomhawk cruise missiles.

· Remote area, major road added, in the 70s? But likely not to benefit Bunkerville citizens

· Evictions: BLM has evicted many people out of the area

· (section title)Corporations Behind the Push
Cedar Development Corp land- USA owned
Zion Bank Corp

· Reid Bunkerville Trust?

· Reid Mormon, Zion bank Mormon(not in vid but since that is a local bank to me in ID, I know it offhand)*


· anomaly, short history on land names

· land acreage size changes--"What's going on with US land? What are they doing with it?" ... 600 acres to 279 acres?"


Try to check out the vid for a better presentation.

If applicable to the research at hand -* As of March 2012, Zions owed $700 Million to the US government Troubled Asset Relief Program.[4] On Sept. 26, 2012, Zions Bancorporation redeemed its final $700 million of TARP shares. The shares were redeemed at the full face value (no discount).[5]source



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