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Statement re: Bundy Ranch Standoff by Shirley Bundy Cox

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posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:16 PM
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Granite
The window of doubt concerning any possibility of "freeloader" label on Bundy family is over now.


Let's call him an "activist freeloader" for now. Sort of an "Occupy Bunkerville Allotment" to make a statement.

The issue is actually incredibly complex, has been going on for years, and the frustrations of people -- with respect to state's rights and federal over-stepping -- has gone beyond simmering to a boiling flashpoint, because of the Bundy situation.

1) No one in western lands trusts the BLM, for good reason.

2) The ESA (endangered species act) has a 1% success rate of actually saving species, and a 100% success rate of causing financial and economic harm. (The BLM actually euthanized 1,400 of the desert tortoises a dozen years ago)

3) Almost nothing since the sagebrush rebellion has been solved, and people who work these lands have long and angry memories.


This is a flash point issue. Judging the larger picture on the merits of the person (Bundy) who sparked this all is no longer valid.




posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:19 PM
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buster2010
Why did she leave out the part about her ancestor giving the land to the state? Also if you check out the what the BLM does in Nevada it says nothing about building ranchers land for them. Maybe it's time Bundy sat his daughter down and told her the whole truth not just part of it.

Are you a rancher or just a newbie rancher with two weeks experience?
She explains quite clear clearly what services BLM was NOT performing to their mandate at formation...mainly road building, waterhole construction.

Your first point, I will respond in a separate reply.
edit on 17-4-2014 by Granite because: (no reason given)


+3 more 
posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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buster2010
Why did she leave out the part about her ancestor giving the land to the state? Also if you check out the what the BLM does in Nevada it says nothing about building ranchers land for them. Maybe it's time Bundy sat his daughter down and told her the whole truth not just part of it.


Buster...

Since you are in lock step with telling the *truth* from the federal point of Righteousness. I think you should run for political office.

You would be a perfect parrot politician. You could have a much larger audience than the few on ATS, you constantly harp your message to.

If I could afford it. I'd pay for you to visit, in person, the Bundy ranch. Maybe if you got down and dirty with the little people, you could see past your own deeply ingrained beliefs that government is always right.

I'm sure they'd even feed and water that high horse you ride.

Des



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:22 PM
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So we have the coming slaughter of Jews once again in the east. We are about ready to have a civil war(Bundy) again in the west.
The Mid-East is getting stupid again and NK sinks the SK ferry boat.

Wont be too much longer now. Buckle up it's going to be a bumpy ride. Gas/food going to skyrocket. It almost seems like something is orchestrating biblical events if you believe that sort of thing.
edit on 17-4-2014 by Skorpy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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usernameconspiracy

thesaneone

I still think both sides are at fault, if this is some slick attempt to take his land for whatever reason why take over 20 years to do it?


It is not his land. He does not own that land. He had a license to use the land for grazing, and now that license has been revoked.


I believe it goes into a little more depth than what you personally think.

The quote from Ms./Mrs.Bundy.



My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use are called preemptive rights.


Now here is the defintion of preemtive rights according to land.



Main Entry: preemption right
Function: noun
: a right of preemption ; specif : a right given by public land laws whereby a citizen may claim and buy under stated conditions a portion not exceeding 160 acres of public land


i.word.com...

If he paid for the rights, then why does a new "department" (BLM) have the right to revoke this agreement? Because it is a law? Did he not follow the law until the new "department" broke their agreement?

Can anyone tell me what the grazing fees were implemented for? I'll let you look that up and share the info.

To everyone saying he broke the law and he should pay, why cannot a man stand up for the principles that he believes in. This guy provides tax money by doing business with the cattle.

Where is the justification of the government spending millions of dollars only to try to recoupe one million dollars?

This guy is the definition of a true American, staring corruption and big government in the face and telling them they are wrong.

This is what our country was founded upon, people sick and tired of the government overstepping their boundaries on the average citizen.

Did we forget this?



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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thesaneone
None of this would have happened if this freeloader would have paid his bills.

I also believe that the Feds need to find a better way to be people friendly and not bring in their army over some cattle and tortoise, that is just plain silly.



So you didn't read the thread?



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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Destinyone

buster2010
Why did she leave out the part about her ancestor giving the land to the state? Also if you check out the what the BLM does in Nevada it says nothing about building ranchers land for them. Maybe it's time Bundy sat his daughter down and told her the whole truth not just part of it.


Buster...

Since you are in lock step with telling the *truth* from the federal point of Righteousness. I think you should run for political office.

You would be a perfect parrot politician. You could have a much larger audience than the few on ATS, you constantly harp your message to.

If I could afford it. I'd pay for you to visit, in person, the Bundy ranch. Maybe if you got down and dirty with the little people, you could see past your own deeply ingrained beliefs that government is always right.

I'm sure they'd even feed and water that high horse you ride.

Des


So you don't think the truth should be told just because you don't like it? Bundy himself said that his ancestor gave the land to the state but his daughter doesn't even mention that and she is supposed to be explaining the facts? I have never had a problem with speaking my mind to anyone even if they didn't like what I said it cost me rank several times when I was in the Army. So I would have no problem with talking to the people that are there at the ranch. I'm sorry that I like to live in the real world while you like to live in some delusion.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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Destinyone

buster2010
Why did she leave out the part about her ancestor giving the land to the state? Also if you check out the what the BLM does in Nevada it says nothing about building ranchers land for them. Maybe it's time Bundy sat his daughter down and told her the whole truth not just part of it.


Buster...

Since you are in lock step with telling the *truth* from the federal point of Righteousness. I think you should run for political office.

You would be a perfect parrot politician. You could have a much larger audience than the few on ATS, you constantly harp your message to.

If I could afford it. I'd pay for you to visit, in person, the Bundy ranch. Maybe if you got down and dirty with the little people, you could see past your own deeply ingrained beliefs that government is always right.

I'm sure they'd even feed and water that high horse you ride.

Des



Got my vote.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Antipathy17
 


Yes I did, why?



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Granite
 

Nevada became part of the United States with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 and later became a state on October 31, 1864. All the public land that was previously owned by the US territories was transferred to Federal. It was public land owned by the US, including Bundy’s grazing area in Clark County.

From your linked source;

My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972…These rights to the land use are called preemptive rights.
Preemptive rights, in the manner that is being used here, does not mean land ownership. It means a person has the right to purchase the land and in this case use the land for a limited time. Maybe someone can show me proof that this is wrong.

Out of all these threads I have yet to see anyone show proof that the Bundy’s owned this land in question or a link to what grazing rights mean or maybe where in the constitution it shows that a rancher has a “Right” to this land and not the public.

I have seen how Bundy got angry and being stubborn quit paying grazing fees thus losing his permit to graze this land. That is a forfeit to Its usage. Clark County bought this permit and gave the land to the turtles. That’s Clark County in Nevada, not the BLM or the feds. Perhaps Bundy could use his preemptive rights to this land to purchase it and all of this fuse would be over.

edit on 4/17/2014 by Devino because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 12:59 PM
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I put this issue to rest in another thread, and I'll put it to rest here. While we may not agree with the tactics employed, the LAW is on the side of the Feds in this case. The Nevada State Constitution states that in all disputes in which the Federal Government has an interest, the State defers power to the Federal Government.
When Nevada became a State, the rights of all previous land owners and grazing rights were immediately turned over to the Federal Government to do with as they saw fit. If you don't like the laws of Nevada, get the signatures and have the Constitution changed. Law trumps whatever rights Bundy thinks he has to anything.

Furthermore, there were TWO separate court orders that Bundy ignored. The Government gave him years to pay his grazing fees, and the court orders gave permission to immediately seize Bundys assets. Much the same as if you didn't pay your taxes and the IRS took your belongings...which they do.

See specific Quotes from the Constitution below. Keep in mind that the Article mentioned also negates any powers the Sheriff or Governor has in stopping any Federal Agency. Especially when that agency has two court orders allowing them to do what they're doing.




Article 1 Section 2 of the Nevada State Constitution:




Sec: 2.  Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States.  All political power is inherent in the people[.] Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair[,] subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existance [existence], and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.


Bundy's right to any grazing land for free or by some nonsense that he was "there first" is pure poppycock when you look at the Enabling Act of the Nevada State Constitution. Mind you, it doesn't matter what happened before Nevada became a state, what matters is what rights were given up by the land owners in the Nevada territory on the day they became a state.

Here is the specific quote I'm referring to:


"That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States"


Bundy has no legal right to anything because the Nevada State Constitution trumps his family settling before statehood and the framers of the treaty decided to include the above quoted section to make sure things like this wouldn't happen in the future.



edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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buster2010

So you don't think the truth should be told just because you don't like it? Bundy himself said that his ancestor gave the land to the state but his daughter doesn't even mention that and she is supposed to be explaining the facts? I have never had a problem with speaking my mind to anyone even if they didn't like what I said it cost me rank several times when I was in the Army. So I would have no problem with talking to the people that are there at the ranch. I'm sorry that I like to live in the real world while you like to live in some delusion.


Yep, nor do you mention the family donated the land to the state of NEVADA, part of which was grazing rights In perpetuity.

The State gave to the feds, feds changed the rules.

Whose right? Whose wrong?

Doesn't matter anymore, the people have spoken.

The people of that county, of that state.

The state needs to remember, it is there at the leisure of the people, and when whats LEGAL ends up hurting the people, its the PEOPLES duty to respond as Bundy did.


per·pe·tu·i·ty noun ˌpər-pə-ˈtü-ə-tē, -ˈtyü-
: the state of continuing forever or for a very long time
plural per·pe·tu·i·ties
Full Definition of PERPETUITY

1
: eternity 2
2
: the quality or state of being perpetual
3
a : the condition of an estate limited so that it will not take effect or vest within the period fixed by law
b : an estate so limited
4
: an annuity payable forever
See perpetuity defined for English-language learners »
See perpetuity defined for kids »
Examples of PERPETUITY



ETA:

If a law is unjust a man is not only right to disobey it he is obligated to do so- Thomas Jefferson.

edit on 17-4-2014 by benrl because: Obtuse ats crown definition of perpetuity



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Devino
 

Agreed.
He is being very narrow and specific on his wishes in two recent press conferences and no more:
"All USA County Sheriffs must force BLM rangers to turn-in their guns and for BLM to remove any "signs saying off-limits".

As far as the future, I am certain some negotiated settlement can be found.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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The Constitution being the founding document underlying the whole shebang....id say the "contract the Nevadans signed with the feds upon statehood negates the underlying Constitution somewhat like the NDAA.........its far from agreed upon yet......at least by the current crop of Americans.......

edit on 17-4-2014 by stirling because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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Star@Benri for the jefferson quote
the feds had no right to destroy the built improvements, shoot ( PRIZE BULLS ?) cattle and threaten protestors with death for crossing a line in the sand

thats how nazis did business...or how things are done in iraq, afgahnistan, syria, Lybia, etc



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Miniscuzz
 




Sec: 2.  Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States.  All political power is inherent in the people[.] Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair[,] subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existance [existence], and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.


Wow! Just wow! That's in the Nevada Constitution? That garbage isn't even in the US Constitution. Sounds very seig heillish to me. Amazing. Wow! Guess who ever wrote that knew some plan was going to be implemented down the road.

edit on 81026Thursdayk22 by Bilk22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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Danbones

thats how nazis did business...or how things are done in iraq, afgahnistan, syria, Lybia, etc


In Egypt, all it took was a fruit stand, that was it.


Funny, that the seed of self motivation and liberty can be triggered in such a small way.


People, on all sides, of this dispute,

are all Americans, even the ones with badges.

They are creating a world they have to live in as well, it would serve everyone to remember that.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 



By hindering a Federal Agency of its ability to carry out court orders, you risk a felony charge. The people there are lucky that they only got threats and not a record.

I'm on the side of the People, but only when it's done through proper channels. How does it make us better to disregard LAW by hindering an investigation? The right to protest doesn't give us carte blanche to subvert the law either.

Whoever said that Bundy donated land to Nevada needs to provide a link...because that just isn't true...he NEVER had title to that land. Besides....no business man would donate his livlihood to the State....that's just illogical by any stretch of the imagination.

edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Yes, you are correct Buster. The Bundy family gave the land to the State of Nevada. With conditions of grazing rights.

You like to gloss over the fact, that big bucks, and influential people with big plans, then *gave* the land to themselves...

Des



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 01:39 PM
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Destinyone
reply to post by buster2010
 


Yes, you are correct Buster. The Bundy family gave the land to the State of Nevada. With conditions of grazing rights.

You like to gloss over the fact, that big bucks, and influential people with big plans, then *gave* the land to themselves...

Des



NO....neither Bundy or any of his relatives have ever owned more than the 160 Acres on the ranch. Please...you spreading lies when you continuously post this. You cannot post one link which verifies this, but I can post a ton that verify my side.

Furthermore, you claim that people with big bucks are to blame? Seems Bundy is on that bandwagon because he has already set up donation sites on FB and PayPal. Pfft....this guy is a scamming pos who deserves what he got.

Something to consider: Bundy has represented himself throughout all of this. Did you ever see any lawyer at his side or speaking for him? NO. I know if I were him, I'd have a lawyer in front of the cameras 24/7 spouting all kinds of legal gibberish. I hear only crickets and that should be very telling.

Here is a link which will go over some of the LIES being spread so that we can discuss this with FACTS.

www.politico.com...
edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2014 by Miniscuzz because: (no reason given)




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