originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ImaFungi
Just because we cannot predict with a high degree of accuracy doesnt mean there is no preceding event that causes it. This is bad logic on your
part, and should not be a confidant assumption, if one wanted to be right.
So what event leads up to the occurrence of vacuum fluctuations? If there isn't any hidden determinism in the rules of QM, and I don't think there
is, then the conclusion is inescapable: some events wont have an exact cause.
Just because I, we, science doesnt know what event leads up to the occurrence of vacuum fluctuations, doesnt mean the rational assumption is that no
event leads up to them. The rational assumption, is that all known events have causes (even if they are entirely and extremely intricate and vast and
fast and large space encompassing and quick time encompassing and small and complex) so these most likely have causes as well.
There is no logical reason to assume otherwise. A statement cannot be expressed in any way, that would infer that a non nothing
essence/material/substance of any kind could do something or be affected 'by nothing' for no reason. There is always a (non moral/god/intent)
'reason' why things happen.
To reply more to the total nature of your OP regarding free will. Determinism exists in the sense that "Something has to happen", free will exists
in the sense that; it appears that conscious beings have 'knowledge', or the knowing that something has happened, something is happening, and
something has to happen, and they there for can make choice, or intend, or compel, things they then want to happen.
Interesting examples I think are sports, maybe the duel between a hitter and pitcher in baseball, or the championship game of the best basketball
teams composed of the best players. So much minute physical data and real time computation, guessing and checking, guessing what the opponent may do,
trying to outsmart him. Something like a basketball game where 100 shots are taken over the span of an hour, trying to get a sphere into a slightly
bigger circle, from various distances, while opponents try and stop you, each step, each dribble, each move of the opposing player, every second
counts, there are plays to try and create a sense of stability, or determination, but largely it is up to the drive and will of each player in each
moment, you can say that when there is a basketball game it is determined that people will play basketball, you can say it is determined the rules
will be followed, its determined the laws of physics will be obeyed, but I dont think every basketball game that has ever been played was determined
But you know... I do see it both ways.... because maybe 'the end of something' , like the end of the game is determined, like a whole chunk of
event. But it can be determined step by step. Like frames of film. It is determined that the 30 minute mark of the frames of film will be played
before the 35 minute mark, and that must be played before the 45 minute mark. Likewise, little by little a basketball game is determined, each planck
second, determination is occurring, and maybe in that sense it can even be said that free will is determined.
Because each player has their limited abilities, their physical attributes which they cannot accede, and their mental, modes of thinking about how
they shoot, how they think to move their bodies, the limitations they set themselves in their omition of potential knowledge of how to do something
better or more cunning. So if you think of a basketball video game which has a Cpu setting, that can play two teams, and it has their stats, it isnt
nearly powerful enough to simulate the exact occurrence of two teams, and there are so many factors (sheer amount of factors are important in this
discussion, limitations and breadth of opening within the realm of what is being limited) like personal matters, sleep schedule, every little thing
of how the body is feeling that day. So 2 teams can play each other 100 times, and yea who knows... And then throw luck in the mix why dont ya.