Putin changes course, admits Russian troops were in Crimea before vote

reply to post by Soshh

Hello, hello, anybody home???

We knew that already here on ATS by using logical thinking!
With or without insignia, those were Russian troops.

Skyfloating
This Putin guy puts my non-interventionist principles into doubt.

Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

MessageforAll
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Well economically wise we are at that point, so next up global conflict( not saying WW3 ) Lines are drawn, Allies are picked and out the shadows comes old enemy's.

True.

But oh how scary a global conflict could be when we have radical Muslim jihadists that very well may have the means to interject a nuclear weapon or two into the mix.

greencmp


Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

I`m that libertarian who is confronted with something that requires a different course of action than my general ideology prescribes. Not that it changes the general ideal of non-intervention, it merely suggests that changing global contexts require flexibility and exceptions.

greencmp

Skyfloating
This Putin guy puts my non-interventionist principles into doubt.

Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

I agree with you.

I am a libertarian.

I am not an isolationist though.

zilebeliveunknown
We knew that already here on ATS by using logical thinking!
With or without insignia, those were Russian troops.

Exactly!

Regardless of what Moscow was spewing saying at the time. Something about well equipped Crimean Militia. Relax, we're just talking and discussing the issues of our era. If this is teaching us all anything it's that ALL Governments, East, West are full of #!

*I don't violate the sites T & C lightly.

greencmp

Skyfloating
This Putin guy puts my non-interventionist principles into doubt.

Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

The US has done a fine job of isolating ITSELF from the rest of the world with the reckless actions of the past thirteen years. Russia may not be our friend, but we are our own worst enemy.

Skyfloating

greencmp


Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

I`m that libertarian who is confronted with something that requires a different course of action than my general ideology prescribes. Not that it changes the general ideal of non-intervention, it merely suggests that changing global contexts require flexibility and exceptions.

edit on 2014 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Yes, an appropriate clarification.

reply to post by greencmp

greencmp

Skyfloating
This Putin guy puts my non-interventionist principles into doubt.

Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

Good point.

I don't know... maybe it wouldn't be so simple for Putin now to rely on the precedents we set in the past, if we (in the western world) would have been more non-interventionist.

Precedence and practice. 'Tis nothing but an ugly mirror.

I still hope defensive alliances should suffice... but I'll have to think about this more.

reply to post by Rosinitiate

Rosinitiate
Doesn't anyone care what the Ukrainians think about all this? Why is anyone on ATS taking the side of any government? We are falling for there trap of dividing the masses and sleight of hand.

I did.
I continuously blame both sides and emphasize that the people should vote and be heard, no matter if in Kiev, in Crimea, in Donezk... everywhere. Let the people decide their own fate!

How many internets did I win?

greencmp

Skyfloating
This Putin guy puts my non-interventionist principles into doubt.

Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

Agree. Interfere. Just one question. If the US interfere some more, and indeed send troops, will you be among them? Will you fight someone else's battle?

And I think it's about time the humankind starts all over. Which means a big war must happen, with most of the human population dying, allowing people in power to start all over again.

Nice logic.

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by Soshh

 

Hello, hello, anybody home???

Please don't resort to this kind of thing. It's tragic.

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by Soshh

 

We knew that already here on ATS by using logical thinking!
With or without insignia, those were Russian troops.

Certainly, I agree that the savvy strongly suspected that during the annexation of Crimea, those ambiguous men in green uniform were Russian soldiers. But you continue to miss the point, which I will again illustrate for you:

Putin and pals said earlier that the uniformed men were local militias, and now they are saying that they were Russian soldiers.

I trust that you have grasped that, so now go back to my previous post, where I explained why I thought that the above is significant. Then I'm sure that we can have an enriching discussion on this topic, which is not how 'the media' is spinning everything or whatever you thought it was before.

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by Soshh

 

Hello, hello, anybody home???

We knew that already here on ATS by using logical thinking!
With or without insignia, those were Russian troops.

They were troops, that's for sure and I would even agree that they are Russian but if I took a picture of american troops and said it was taken in say Spain then how would you know the truth unless you could see the background and knew the area.

We have been lied to many times before and I will trust no one after the 9/11 incident being covered up.

Lets be logical here

Are people saying that Russia had troops in the area and they all turned tail and run because they knew the Americans were coming

Russia will only allow so much blood shed in the Ukraine and the only army they are sending in is teams of reporters, under cover agents with cameras to film the killing and if/when they streets become full of blood then they will invade and no one can blame them.

Welcome to media wars, a war for your minds (dick stick alex jones) but I can tell you that yesterday when I was watching Russia Today and they came to a commercial break they did not have one single commercial advert to show and I put this down to everyone being warned off and it's not a case of corporations developing some type of conscience.

The other reason I don't think its anything to do with commercial conscience is because RT is always having technical difficulties on Youtube or cable companies and that's just in parts of the world where they even allow you to watch it.

Free, yes sure you are.

Site went wrong, double post

Nikola014

greencmp

Skyfloating
This Putin guy puts my non-interventionist principles into doubt.

Indeed, I am patiently awaiting a reality check from libertarians on this.

Isolationism is not an option for the US.

Russia is not our friend.

Agree. Interfere. Just one question. If the US interfere some more, and indeed send troops, will you be among them? Will you fight someone else's battle?

And I think it's about time the humankind starts all over. Which means a big war must happen, with most of the human population dying, allowing people in power to start all over again.

Nice logic.

edit on 17-4-2014 by Nikola014 because: (no reason given)

As has been said before, if the people want to be annexed to the Russian federation then by all means proceed.

I am reacting to the scenario writ large and yes, I will fight and die in the name of freedom, not of empire and so should you.

While I don't think there are any plans for or any utility in putting American soldiers into eastern Europe, NATO is the organization responsible for any military engagement with any former Soviet block country. We must provide support to our allies or our treaties are worthless.

It is the lack of preparedness and will to defend that leads to war.

reply to post by Soshh


"Putin and pals said earlier that the uniformed men were local militias, and now they are saying that they were Russian soldiers."

maybe Putin had not seen the pictures when he said "local militias" because he knew his men were not fighting in the country and when he did see the pictures he said they "were Russian soldiers" because he realized they were part of the 25,000 that are allowed to be in the Ukraine.

Lawyers try this trick all the time in court rooms.

Please point out in history the last time a large army invaded a country, didn't level a town or shoot a shoot and ran back across the border.

For all we know this was Russia evacuating troops out of the Ukraine in an attempt to deescalate the situation and not wanting to admit it and appearing weak because me and you don't know the time and we don't even know the location let alone what direction they were moving in.

Lets forget the lies about the neo-nazi's being involved, $4bn being spent to quote Ron Paul or the lies that everyone in the Ukraine hated Russia and think logical for a moment.

reply to post by Soshh

I don't know why you're stuck on 'little green men'.
It is entirely irrelevant what Putin or anyone else have said.
What is important is that we here on ATS already knew who 'little green men' were by simply using logic.
My point is that MSM are using this fact to run the water in the mill so to speak, so uneducated people could draw conclusion in favor on one side.

reply to post by VirusGuard






With Last Media Critics Blocked, Putin Silences the Russia Press

Forget investigative reporting, even critical commentary is now out of bounds as the Kremlin clamps down on Web news sites.

Until this week, a handful of websites seemed to be the last bastions of the free press in Russia. But on Thursday those bastions fell. The Kremlin blocked three independent news sites, including one run by former world chess champion Garry Kasparov, as well as a widely read investigative blog, Livejournal.com, by Alexei Navalny.

Only two years ago, during protests in Moscow against the return of Vladimir Putin to the presidency, the Russian online media played a key role mobilizing demonstrations. They were called the front line of democracy in an ever less democratic state. They were popular and they were the only media able to operate freely since television had come under government control and the newspaper industry fell into the hands of oligarchs loyal to the Kremlin.

How, then, did Putin manage what some are calling an “online coup d'état?”

SLAYER69
reply to post by VirusGuard

 

With Last Media Critics Blocked, Putin Silences the Russia Press

Forget investigative reporting, even critical commentary is now out of bounds as the Kremlin clamps down on Web news sites.

Until this week, a handful of websites seemed to be the last bastions of the free press in Russia. But on Thursday those bastions fell. The Kremlin blocked three independent news sites, including one run by former world chess champion Garry Kasparov, as well as a widely read investigative blog, Livejournal.com, by Alexei Navalny.

Only two years ago, during protests in Moscow against the return of Vladimir Putin to the presidency, the Russian online media played a key role mobilizing demonstrations. They were called the front line of democracy in an ever less democratic state. They were popular and they were the only media able to operate freely since television had come under government control and the newspaper industry fell into the hands of oligarchs loyal to the Kremlin.

How, then, did Putin manage what some are calling an “online coup d'état?”

Interesting that ATS isn't blocked in Russia, hmmm?

Kiev was the first Capital of Russia. The Ukrainians, The Crimeans.....they are all russians whether they like to admit it or not. Maybe a few europeans from other places mixed in but Kiev was the birthplace of Russia. Moscow has a legitimate concern about things that happen there. We fought the english for independence in 1776. Its 2014 and most of the years since 1776 we have been allies. People need to realize that there is no separating the two. Their destinies are intertwined forever....for better or worse. I think the world needs to step back and let them handle that. The russian "takeover" of crimea was the equivalent of a big brother putting his little brother in a headlock and giving him a noogie. Had there not been agitators from countries trying to gain a financial foothold there, there would probably have been minimal bloodshed and something could have been worked out diplomatically between the two neighbors. All hope of that is gone now. Things are escalating.