The failure of the mental health system - A personal summary

Why fix it? I say let's give the schizophrenics a shot at running things for a while. They can't possibly do a worse job than the maniacal sociopaths we have in charge now. If this is what we get with "sane" people at the helm...

Throw the doors open and let 'em all out. We don't have enough crazy people--people who don't quite see the world the way everyone else does... and have no inhibitions about it. Outside the box. Bold action. This is good.

I learn so much more about life from complete lunatics than anyone else. Embrace them for who they are and learn from them.

I have so much to say but I don't know how to say it.

When you take animals out of the natural world and put them in a zoo, they go insane. We live in a zoo.

The mental health system is a failure because there is no money in it. Besides passing meds there are no procedures for doctors to get rich off of, there isn't a lot of medical devices needed for mental health, and there is really not much reimbursement if any from medicaid or medicare for mental health compared to other areas of medicine. Compare and contrast what the average shrink makes vs. the average surgeon.

Some of the reasons why the mental health system is broken have been mentioned but the main one has not.

The system is run by bureaucrats who may be good with how to waste the meager financial resources that are available but have no clue as to what mental health is all about.

This comes from whatever model is used to fund them, also made up by yet another clueless bureaucratic twit. From the local schemes all the way up through to the public hospitals, absolutely stupid rules are in place that maximize funding and do nothing for the client.

In Australia organizations are funded to provide local services. Many of these are funded on a maximum of three visits. You can't do anything in three visits, especially when limited to forty five minutes per.

SO we have fools in Government making stupid rules, and bean counters running things. It just stinks! There is little, if any, care available for those who need long time support and quite frankly, most mental health issues arise because of trauma that arose in the first place because of a dysfunctional society!

What we should be doing is maximizing our efforts into children to avoid them becoming patients as adults ...... sadly .... as long as we live in a society ruled by crime and punishment, where the very criminal system can do more damage to the victim than the crime itself, where children are forced to the floor and have weapons aimed at them after watching their family dog get wiped out ...... by the police ....


And people wonder what is wrong in the world ............

Go figure ..........

S&F

P

reply to post by KyoZero


there is so much I'd like to say in regard to the mental health system - being a psychiatric nurse, in both the private and state-run hospitals - but, it is late, so I will be brief.

There is a portion of the population that society should have a moral compunction to take care of -

The schizophrenic and bipolar people - who by no way have had any responsibility for causing their own "illness" - and the people who are less likely to attempt to try to get help for themselves -

These are the people you see on the street - talking to themselves - the scared/paranoid/delusional - and least likely to want medication or having "services" to keep them in a clean home, good food and hygiene, medications that can stem their symptoms, and = most importantly - keep them from being victimized by others.

These people are why I went into nursing and psychiatric medicine.

In the 30 years I have been in nursing - I've seen lots of changes.

Many people bleeding the system - both the legal system and the welfare system.

Big pharma is one of the biggest problems.

It's late - I need to go to bed - this issue is very complicated - and I see the people who desperately need services the most, being pushed aside for the more "political" and "profitable" greed of others.

Bluesma
There is a big difference between the type of situations she is dealing with, and the kinds you described.
The parents that just want to get rid of the troublesome teen were a huge problem, my mother used to tell me when she worked for a while in a private psych hosp. Sometimes it was just that the parents found out a kid tried some weed once, and they wanted them locked up. Sometimes it was perfectly good kids, just with screwed up parents. They were there, with the insurance paying big bucks, for years.

She found that scandalous, but sometimes said the kids were better off being protected from the idiotic parents, who were also forced to come in for therapy with them- which they wouldn't do otherwise.

^market expansion method

Win-Win business,parents get rid of their kids ,more thoughtcrime been invented.Thus industrial developing,economic growth.

Happy1
reply to post by KyoZero

 

there is so much I'd like to say in regard to the mental health system - being a psychiatric nurse, in both the private and state-run hospitals - but, it is late, so I will be brief.

There is a portion of the population that society should have a moral compunction to take care of -

The schizophrenic and bipolar people - who by no way have had any responsibility for causing their own "illness" - and the people who are less likely to attempt to try to get help for themselves -

These are the people you see on the street - talking to themselves - the scared/paranoid/delusional - and least likely to want medication or having "services" to keep them in a clean home, good food and hygiene, medications that can stem their symptoms, and = most importantly - keep them from being victimized by others.

These people are why I went into nursing and psychiatric medicine.

In the 30 years I have been in nursing - I've seen lots of changes.

Many people bleeding the system - both the legal system and the welfare system.

Big pharma is one of the biggest problems.

It's late - I need to go to bed - this issue is very complicated - and I see the people who desperately need services the most, being pushed aside for the more "political" and "profitable" greed of others.

Mental illness or mental disease as schizophrenia is called these days is a toughy. Family positive support, a will to work (any job) right medications and list can go on, but these are all important for the success of one struggling with the disease or illness of the mind. I often think and feel that homeless shelters are open door prisons for the mentally ill people that mean good in life, but have no where else to turn too.

Out here in Calif they will only commit people that come under the state 5150 laws.

Then its only till they get the persons Mental Health problem under control with medications.

At that point they kick them out the door with a 30 day supply of medications no referral for treatment or script for more medication.
Many have been so out of it they can not hold a job or go through the system to get SSD/SSDI and they get no help from the state doctors in filing the needed records to get disability.

At the end of the 30 days they have no way to get meds and go back through the system.
This makes for great job security for the doctors working for the system.

In many cases the Mental Health hospital the person was taken to is in the county seat and people from other areas of the county are left on the street with no way to get home.

reply to post by KyoZero


Questions.

Has this always been the case?
(citing the 2 examples given)

If no, then what has changed? (with the individual(s))
If yes, then has our approach (clinical) changed?

The system is not nearly as comprehesive as it needs to be. There are way too many holes, and when it comes to mental health there cannot be holes. Sorry about errors - typing from phone.

The criteria for institutionalization is one place where holes exist. Also - making decisons based on insurance, which is ethically wrong, yet happens. The mother/daughter issue sounds as if the mom needs some mental health attention. How will she get that? She won't so she continues to project onto her daughter until both have issues. Someone needs some time with her - to build a bit of rapport and then confront. That won't happen without a referral to therapy and the referring Doctors notes to the new therapist. Because in truth - the daughter does need help. Help to deal with the issues at home that brought her to the ER.

Testing is only one tiny piece of decision making so with that case I would be asking her to follow up for a more comprehensive workup. It isn't an ER but someone needs to strongly recommended she get her into someone, and send those suspicions about mom over. I would take a bit of time to let her know that her own fears can cause damage so to calm down and take the appropriate steps. This is being kind yet plants a seed to knock it off with the drama around her kid.

With the man in the shelter, I'm sure he also needs mental health attn - although not ER. If he has no insurance or money noone will want to see him though - sadly. If there was somewhere to refer on an outpatient basis - but no money to help build his motivation and assess for other issues means you will keep seeing him or he will continue to he homeless.

There are so many other issues - tons of them. We are trained to look for the severe but prevention is also critical. Society doesn't appreciate the fact that mental health problems lead to physical ones, and the mental health issue doesn't need to be severe for that to happen. It takes a long time and approaches from all angles to help someone to heal. Neither of those is written into the protocol. We lump it into a medical thing (break a broken bone), and that is that. Unless of course we go above and beyond.

Shaman's are obsolete according to the medical community....a return to that paradigm where Maternal & Feminine attributes are the dominant force is your answer

I suggest that a ER environment for you is out-of-the-question... you probably should be at an expensive, private facility where actors/politicians/fallen evangelists come for treatment or detox programs

talk about the 'sheltering'... I once was forced into a 29 day treatment program.. some 6 months later a court allowed my release to the household of my In-Laws... I was actually looking for a free 'vacation' from the world to energize myself before going out on my 'vision quest' to the desert SW... (which I did 6 months later for a 7 year Quest)


ADD: www.youtube.com...
Malibu passages addiction & treatment centers

The timing on this thread is interesting - our local paper has been doing an ongoing piece regarding this issue. I am on the patient side, albeit minor. I suffer depression due to physical problems I have. Here in South Carolina the issue is that our mentally ill fill up the PRISON system. There are very few mental health facilities still open. The prisons are not equipped to deal with these patients. The mentally Ill are punished when they exhibit symptoms. They are put in awful solitary confinement, tied down for days on end, and are stripped of any decency. If anyone is interested in reading these articles, check out the Charleston Post and Courier. It is absolutely shameful.

reply to post by KyoZero


Great post... I have had some personal experience myself on both ends....after my best friend offed himself and I found him dead I needed a little counseling. As I went in they basically told me I was normal and shouldn't come in any more. Several years later I was involved in another high trauma experience and went in again. They told me there was really nothing they could do for me as they couldnt place me in any category.

I can say that through my time in the military and in law enforcement...every near death experience and life ive taken has completely changed who I am.

I was voted "best personality" in high school and I now shop at night to avoid human contact. Every time I have attempted to go in to counseling they tell me im fine..perhaps because I put on a show...ive now just accepted that I dont need people. ATS is kind of my outlet for communication. But I dont enjoy human contact...not even sex anymore....or anything. Id like to be more social again but I dont see how..and luckily with the internet I have some way to remain human.

candlestick

calstorm
reply to post by candlestick

 

Actually it was the best paying job I ever had. The pay was significantly higher than your typical CNA job. Plus I could put in all the overtime I liked so I was averaging about 20-30 hours a week of double time pay. It was bureaucracy that was the problem.

No no no no...I said those people who visited the "hospital" didn't paid enough money to the "hospital"...

You would be correct. The hospital was state funded as most of the patients were low income or homeless. Some had medicare or medicare but many did not. Those with private insurance went elsewhere.

ANNED
Out here in Calif they will only commit people that come under the state 5150 laws.

Then its only till they get the persons Mental Health problem under control with medications.

At that point they kick them out the door with a 30 day supply of medications no referral for treatment or script for more medication.
Many have been so out of it they can not hold a job or go through the system to get SSD/SSDI and they get no help from the state doctors in filing the needed records to get disability.

At the end of the 30 days they have no way to get meds and go back through the system.
This makes for great job security for the doctors working for the system.

In many cases the Mental Health hospital the person was taken to is in the county seat and people from other areas of the county are left on the street with no way to get home.

The hospital I worked at was in a rural county in Ca. So we would put the ones with homes to go to in a caged car and drive them home. Everything else you say is correct.

originally posted by: candlestick

^market expansion method

Win-Win business,parents get rid of their kids ,more thoughtcrime been invented.Thus industrial developing,economic growth.

Perhaps that is one way of looking at it.
I am more aware of the human side of it, in which kids were being abused and screwed up by their parents, and someone helped them out of that situation.
(note I specified that was in reference to a private hospital, and these cases not in a locked ward, but in which the kids went home for weekends, and had hours they could leave the establishment during the day)
If there is a darker motive higher up, I don't know. But I know the actual people working with the kids were there because they really cared and wanted to help. (god knows they weren't getting paid enough to attract anyone that didn't).

a reply to: Bluesma

If they didn't got enough paid,it would be the case like calstorm mentioned on this thread.But they let you to believe they are cared and wanted to help those kids...Only those kids would know the truth ,but I don't believe the "love" in business.

originally posted by: cosmicexplorer
reply to post by KyoZero

 

Great post... I have had some personal experience myself on both ends....after my best friend offed himself and I found him dead I needed a little counseling. As I went in they basically told me I was normal and shouldn't come in any more. Several years later I was involved in another high trauma experience and went in again. They told me there was really nothing they could do for me as they couldnt place me in any category.

I can say that through my time in the military and in law enforcement...every near death experience and life ive taken has completely changed who I am.

I was voted "best personality" in high school and I now shop at night to avoid human contact. Every time I have attempted to go in to counseling they tell me im fine..perhaps because I put on a show...ive now just accepted that I dont need people. ATS is kind of my outlet for communication. But I dont enjoy human contact...not even sex anymore....or anything. Id like to be more social again but I dont see how..and luckily with the internet I have some way to remain human.

you sound like a person of sound mind, but have some minor problems, please ask Jesus for help. If you ask for wisdom sincerely, you may find it. Also if you think you may need medical help, from what you wrote, please ask your doctor if Risperdal would be benifical to for your treatment. It may take up to 4 years of taking it, so hang in there. The drug is terrible bad and causes many side effects, but if you said what is true, after about 9 months of it , you'll do well. Hang in there. Don't drink much or any alcohol during the day when taking it. Your mind will give you too much confidence. Good luck dude.