Those working are almost outnumbered 2 to 1 by those getting some kind of Federal Benefits

Gotta love class warfare at its finest.

Focus on the poor while the real villains and bandits make out like the bandits they are:

www.alternet.org...

Yep, it is the poor and the poorly educated that are scamming the system, all those minorities.

Derek

matafuchs
It is about survival and not being a leech on the countries tit.

That's one of my problems...

There are times I feel like a leech. I want to continue to contribute. And I will admit that I'm not at my finest sitting behind a desk.

reply to post by matafuchs


Bread and Circuses my friend... get enough uneducated people with a voice and they will realize they can vote.. let all of them vote themselves entitlements until there is no money to pay for it... them they will vote for people to print more money... then they can vote for more bread and circuses without ever having to go earn money to purchase said bread or tickets to the circus...

#parasite culture


feel the need to revise.. I'm not saying that there are not truly people who need help.. Such as the elderly, the disabled, the veterans,etc.. That is why these systems are in place. However, i feel that the people on top cause a lot of this divide.. Whether it be that they allow corporations to make known risky and toxic investments and lose significant amounts of peoples retirement money, or whether they promote idiotic social culture like jersey shore and other idols like Jay-Z, Kanye, etc. Killing off any hopes that the young impressionable minds may seek intellectual pursuits rather than idolizing and emulating a bunch of dimwitted mouth breathers. Blame can be had at both ends of the equation.. the pusher and the junkie.. I think we need a rather drastic culture shift in the US, and quick.. Personal responsibility, not living past ones means, etc. Just my two cents before i pack up and leave the office...

And on a personal note.. i know people who directly rip off the system.. get VA benefits, get WIC, housing assitance, etc and believe that this is better than work.. I have been called a fool by these people because I believe in pride, hard work, dedication, etc.. they called me a fool because I'm a wage slave and they are "doing things there way in life".. so bash my opinions all you'd like.. I've known more people scamming then i have actually using this for its intended purpose.. I had a neighbor on disability.. guy is always outside working on his house.. building a new deck, installing his own skylights, just bought a huge truck but recieves disability because he "cant do physical labor", another girl i know isnt looking for a job (she has a f@#king masters degree) because she wants to wait to see if congress will vote to extend unemployment first.. plus many other cases....

reply to post by Viesczy


BINGO!

reply to post by minusinfinity


Indeed you were.

No apology necessary. Its not your fault.

Kallisti

First, this is not about bashing those who need benefits. Veterans.

What do you class as a veteran?

reply to post by matafuchs


Well, one thing we could do is stop spending trillions on bankers for Quantitative Easing.

Give it to homeowners directly to get out of hot water.

Spend it on job training for living wage jobs, instead of hopelessness.

That is just a couple of things we could do with trillions. But, now that we are an oligarchy, we must protect the rich, and blame the poor.

The article is simplistic. It does not differentiate between welfare grants and a return of principle. If you put your money into a bank or other investment, you intend to eventually take it back out to use as you see fit. When the bank returns your principle to you, the bank does not then claim that it is "giving you its money." That's because it is yours in the first place.

As a working citizen I and others were forced to "contribute" to the social security "fund" for forty-odd years. I paid about $200,000 into the fund, and my employers also paid the same amount for a total contribution of $400,000 or so over my working career. THIS MONEY NEVER EARNED A DIME OF INTEREST. Had I put the same amount of money into a typical bank CD at the maximum amount of interest allowed over the years, i.e.: a long-term CD, that money would easily have doubled to $800,000. (Historically interest rates have not been as low as they are today.)

Bear in mind that half of this was TAXED money. (The employer contribution is not taxed to the employee, and it is only recently that the employee tax is deferred.) However, when it comes back to you, unless social security is your only income, 85% of it is taxed. This means that 35% is actually double taxation. You are paying tax on money that has already been taxed. In any other investment you are only taxed on the gain.

Nevertheless the government gives the money back to you in incremental amounts that it decides is appropriate. The less you have made in your life the greater percentage of that income is paid via social security. If you die before you can collect, or when you are collecting, regardless of the amount you have paid in, it all goes away and is forfeit to the government. In any other investment you make, including the CDs mentioned above, and principle that remains is part of your estate and inheritable by your heirs. Not so with social security. The government has designated itself as your heir.

Now if you take that $800,000 that you would have earned had you invested this same money in a bank in a safe CD you would have enough to pay yourself what the government would until over the age of 90. But let's make a whopping concession here and admit that the government is such a poor money manager that it earns no interest off your money and instead pays out the money you contribute as benefits as fast as you pay it in (And it does do this.) Well, if you just use the $400,000 that you actually paid in and pay it out to yourself, it will last until just shy of you being 80 years old, and guess what? This is EXACTLY what the longevity tables say. On average, you're going to live until age 78. Yes, some people receive much more than they paid in. And some people die at age 64, too, and lose every dime.

TL;DR? OK, a summary: The government confiscates your money "for retirement," earns no interest on it, and pays it back to you in retirement. By and large it DOES NOT pay you MORE than you paid in. It TAXES your own money when it gives it back to you, and if you die before the actuarial tables say you will, the government keeps your money. You could do much better for yourself with little risk if you put the same money on a bank CD with no loss of principle.

So do I "get government benefits" while poor slobs keep working? Yes, I do, and the fact is, it's MY DAMN MONEY in the first place! I spent my whole life since age 16 "saving" this money and I damn well want it back.

Soc. Sec. is not an entitlement like welfare. And the numbers in the OP... I bet a bunch of those folks are added in more than once.

Lets say you have 1 million people living in subsidized housing. 1 million people on WIC, thats 2 million people on welfare. Unless those 1 million people in housing are the same 1 million on WIC.

Corporate welfare is by far worse.

minusinfinity
reply to post by matafuchs

 

A solution?

Not sure but what would help is to stop paying people to have children.

Every time I enter a grocery store I see at least one pregnant person using welfare who has a child in a stroller. If you can't afford one child then why get pregnant?

My opinion is mine. If you don't like it then too bad.

Because it's how they hook you.

There was a desperate time in our lives when we were in college. I was finishing and our car was broken down and my husband was between one low-wage lab money job and another ... we did go to the benefits office to see if there was some kind of program just to render temporary aid for a month or two. Just long enough to let us get back on our feet.

The first thing the gal asked me was how far along I was. After we said I wasn't. The second thing she told us was that there was absolutely nothing that could be done until I was, and then we could qualify for everything.

So, it's all or nothing, and dependent on kids mostly.

reply to post by schuyler


Just keep in mind that SS is robbed as soon as it comes in to pay out to current recipients. It is not earning interest because it's not being set aside for you.

It's a scam. They robbed it a long time ago.

Just give up on the idea that you will ever see your SS money unless someone finally grows up and stands up and gives us direct control over it, so we can see what is happening to it and save it for ourselves.

well at least 43 million people who are unemployed and with benefits and not veterans are actually disabled so that number of 147 million is a bit misleading you know.

i have medicaid and ssi and my mom gets food stamps for herself because she can't work due to caring for me part of the time, side effects from being a genetic carrier of my disease(some symptoms of my disease), severe joint problems(probably r.a) and chronic bronchitis yet nothing in the way for her health or anything else.
there's many like her who need it but can't get it because overly paranoid people who go on about how Everyone with benefits is a liar, drunk and drug addicted fatso who is just too lazy to work like them. that's bull# yet these selfish parrots of that crap make it nearly impossible for people who need real help to get anything except ridicule, abuse, humiliation and feelings of shame for simply asking for some help.

let me give an example, last year i think it was, in my state they passed a law requiring drug tests to get benefits yet only 1 percent failed these tests. everyone made a huge deal out of benefit takers abusing the system and using it for drugs and alcohol yet only 1 percent failed. that alone says something about how little the system is probably abused in reality, rather than the huge amount that is claimed in paranoid delusions of reality.

rather than calling this country united states of america, we call it the united states of paranoia because that's how americans behave towards seemingly everything, foreign and domestic. not that i'm much different in some regards.

These numbers end up not meaning much. A population is divided in into 3 parts, to young to work, working age, and retired. The US had at one time a massive birthrate. That rate has declined. It is the same way in most Western nations. Large groups of people are hitting the retirement age and low birth rates mean they out number the working age population. This is a huge problem for some places but, the US has immigration (both kinds) that help bolster that working population tax base. Of course this will all sort itself out in couple of decades as the elderly die off. Not to mention that you can be working and getting food stamps because of low paying jobs. Of course the big problem is we have a for profit heathcare system and until we get rid of that we are always going to have problems.

minusinfinity

CagliostroTheGreat
reply to post by minusinfinity

 

Because I'm not allowed to have hobbies or interests? What makes you think I do nothing but "waste time on ATS"? Its past 4pm here I already did my searching for the day. Plus, you know, we have these things called smart phones...


But of course you must know everything.

*shakes head*

Some people.

Sorry.

I was wrong to judge you.

Good luck on the search.

holy crap! A sincere apology on ATS! I have to mark this day on my calendar. Kudos to you..

matafuchs
It is opinion...opposite opinion that founded the principles of our nation. Do I like busting my ass to send my kids to good schools and provide when I see someone with a WIC card pulled out of a Prada purse climbing into a 2 year old Lexus. No. I hate it. The problem is that there is no shame.

After 37 years on this planet, living all over this country

Never.

Ever.

Have I seen what you describe. Not once. Not even close.

Every person that I see pulling out a WIC card is lucky to be getting into a Hyundai.

Either, you are taking a one-off with some jerk abusing the system as the norm, you are completely delusional, or you are just making stuff up because you need someone to acknowledge your existence today.

I'm going with the last one personally. I think you are full of it. But here... Here is your cookie. There ya go... You have some attention.

Everyone is on Federal Benefits, from the poor on welfare, to all the employees working for the government subsidized fake economy, to the super rich who enjoy tax cuts and loop holes.

Does this number account for the retired people that worked all there lives to get a government style pension plan, just asking, in canada we do pay a tax of some kinds on our incomes to have security in our old age.

reply to post by MrSpad


The numbers from what I understand also suggest that their are more working age capable people then there are available jobs. Your point does make sense to a degree though.

reply to post by redhorse



I am 63 and have never seen any of what the op describes.

If the right had there way all these kids and elderly would be working at walmart.....

More division thats all we know.