Bundy Ranch Conspiracy Debunked

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posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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Found this from Cenk Uygur (Young Turks) on Live Leak this morning. Maybe I am late posting it. Did a quick search of Bundy Ranch and it did not come up. This was a response to the Storm Clouds Gathering conspiracy video recently posted on YouTube and linked here.

Not sure how to embed Live Leak videos here to I will just drop a link. If someone will tell me how to embed it that would be great.

www.liveleak.com...

Now my take on this:

First, I think Cenk to be a pretty upstanding dude when it comes to investigative reporting. Like any other media outlet it is always good to double check the facts being tosses out. So I did and I could find nothing ambiguous or misleading in his facts.

Second, I have said from the beginning that Bundy had no claim to the land. The entire situation is kind of like having someone let your family live in an extra house they had rent free for 100 years. Then the owner of that house coming back to you and saying that they were happy to loan you the house but times have changed and they would like you to start paying rent to continue to live in that house. Now, instead of gratitude for the last 100 years of rent free living the people that have lived in that house, your entire family and many others, pull out guns and forcibly attempt to steal the house.

IMO Bundy is not a good American, he is a trouble making ingrate. It is sad how many people will blindly follow along with him.

Keep in mind I am no fan of BLM as I got screwed over by them pretty hard myself, to the tune of 80k. I am still trying to recover and had I the extra cash I would have eventually won in Court as a local rancher conspired with BLM to remove my legally (and permitted) business from the area. I unlike Bundy did get screwed over. However, the facts remain the same in this case. Bundy has no rights to that land and never did.
edit on 16-4-2014 by Mamatus because: Gwammer and speeeeling



+2 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 


I need to explore what you've brought to the table. I don't think it's as black and white as you portray in your analogy of the house guest turned renter.

Do you think you may be jaded by your own experience of being screwed by the BLM? You did mention, had you had enough money, you would have won in court.

Des
edit on 16-4-2014 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)


+18 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 



Second, I have said from the beginning that Bundy had no claim to the land.

He says he does, so there.

Thing is if he didn't the government wouldn't have blinked, they would have just arrested him for trespassing like anyone else.

As it is, they know he has a claim and are being careful about that. They want to incite him to now do something illegal that they can get him for.

Sounds like you caved, he didn't. If it goes to court (and I doubt that) the government may be afraid of the deed they know he has.

Thats why they are "handling" it WACO and Ruby Ridge style (so far).

IMO



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:04 PM
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intrptr
reply to post by Mamatus
 



Second, I have said from the beginning that Bundy had no claim to the land.

He says he does, so there.

Thing is if he didn't the government wouldn't have blinked, they would have just arrested him for trespassing like anyone else.

As it is, they know he has a claim and are being careful about that. They want to incite him to now do something illegal that they can get him for.

Sounds like you caved, he didn't. If it goes to court (and I doubt that) the government may be afraid of the deed they know he has.

Thats why they are "handling" it WACO and Ruby Ridge style (so far).

IMO

Pretty much my take on things.
2nd.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 


I looked into this situation the first day it came up and came to the same conclusions you did.
I just didn't see the point of posting here when the vast majority of people have their minds made up that Bundy is some kind of hero. He's sucking off the federal teat and not paying for it (like every other rancher does). Hmmm... I thought most of his supporters would be upset about that, but they seem to support him 100%.


+16 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 

Facts:
1. In 1870's, Bundy homestead on open high desert with Virgin river frontage.
2. In 1910, state of Nevada formed...Bundy deed their land to the state in return for services (Sheriff protection from "wild west" types). He pays taxes, grazing fees to Nevada.

Don't be re-writing history...especially American history.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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Seems clear to me that this boils down to the question of do you recognize the federal gov or the state gov. The fact is that the majority of gun owning americans will back states over the fed. Bundy is the last in a long line of changes that have come right or wrong by the feds. Those that didn't stand up before will gladly stand behind him now. No court decision will win is this matter regardless of legality. Americans have a bad taste in their mouths from being shat on over and over and in their minds it is simple. Man and cattle on ranch. gov try to remove man and cattle. ok i will gladly die for that. All talking points aside it is that simple to most who have lost their way of life. You can spin it into racism.poverty, sexuality whatever direction you choose but in the simple minds it is us vs them and us is tired of them. us will win or die trying while putting women and children first. We absolutely do not want to see what happens after the first shots are fired.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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All the fracking in the area has poisoned the river and neither the gas companies nor the government want a bunch of dead cows causing someone to take notice of the toxic water.

See, I can add to the conspiracy. There is more to this than we are being let know.


+4 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:25 PM
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Mamatus
Found this from Cenk Uygur (Young Turks) on Live Leak this morning. Maybe I am late posting it. Did a quick search of Bundy Ranch and it did not come up. This was a response to the Storm Clouds Gathering conspiracy video recently posted on YouTube and linked here.

Not sure how to embed Live Leak videos here to I will just drop a link. If someone will tell me how to embed it that would be great.

www.liveleak.com...

Now my take on this:

First, I think Cenk to be a pretty upstanding dude when it comes to investigative reporting. Like any other media outlet it is always good to double check the facts being tosses out. So I did and I could find nothing ambiguous or misleading in his facts.

Second, I have said from the beginning that Bundy had no claim to the land. The entire situation is kind of like having someone let your family live in an extra house they had rent free for 100 years. Then the owner of that house coming back to you and saying that they were happy to loan you the house but times have changed and they would like you to start paying rent to continue to live in that house. Now, instead of gratitude for the last 100 years of rent free living the people that have lived in that house, your entire family and many others, pull out guns and forcibly attempt to steal the house.

IMO Bundy is not a good American, he is a trouble making ingrate. It is sad how many people will blindly follow along with him.

Keep in mind I am no fan of BLM as I got screwed over by them pretty hard myself, to the tune of 80k. I am still trying to recover and had I the extra cash I would have eventually won in Court as a local rancher conspired with BLM to remove my legally (and permitted) business from the area. I unlike Bundy did get screwed over. However, the facts remain the same in this case. Bundy has no rights to that land and never did.
edit on 16-4-2014 by Mamatus because: Gwammer and speeeeling


Actually, by law, if you had a friend living in a house you owned for 100 years, they might actually own it under adverse possession and common use laws.

Secondly, they did own the land via the homestead act and then deeded the land to the state with the deal they could still use it to graze their herds which was much later given over to the feds. It is a complicated issue and not as simple as you think.
edit on 16-4-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:29 PM
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It's more like you own a house and the government takes hold of your house but says you can live and work there, then after 100 years tells you to leave.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by JewelOfDenial
 


Bundy never owned the land. He USED federal land (with their permission) for many years and then the feds changed the rules (which they have a right to do) and Bundy did not comply.

I can't wait to see this guy go down, personally.

You guys REALLY should watch the video linked in the OP. Education is a wonderful thing.

I'm not going to argue this case. We'll just have to see what happens. But the feds are going to pester this guy with lawsuits until he loses his ranch. And if he's not going to pay the fees, like every one else, he deserves it.
edit on 4/16/2014 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by intrptr
 

He has been to court, at least 3 times. Losing each time. If he really has some legal right to access the land, don't you think there is as at least one lawyer willing to take up his cause, considering all the vocal support he has gotten in the past week?

Bundy wiki

As far as I can tell, this fellow really likes to have his opinion heard about States' sovereignty, and he enjoys free, profitable grazing at the expense of the environment and taxpayers.

For example, a year ago, he testified before the Nevada Assembly Committee on Legislative Operations and Elections, regarding AB227. That bill is to set up a committee to study the nuts & bolts of how & at what cost any federal lands given to the state of Nevada might be administered--a contigency wish list. The committee is to have 17 members, one from each county, since they are familiar with the federal lands and associated needs/wants/issues of the local residents.

Mr. Bundy's testimony, found in the Minutes of that meeting:

Cliven Bundy, Private Citizen, Bunkerville, Nevada:
I would like to give my condolences to Mr. Dahl. I stand here as a rancher
in southern Nevada. I am somewhat well known as the last man standing.
I must say that I am glad to see you people stand for state sovereignty today.
I do not support nor oppose this bill. Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS) 321.596
states, "The State of Nevada has a strong moral claim upon the public
land retained by the Federal Government within Nevada’s borders."
Let us strengthen that bill and go on and claim this land and our sovereignty.


Why would he not support this bill? Why go to the trouble of testifying if you don't have an opinion on the matter at hand?

My opinion, he likes the sound of his own voice.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:35 PM
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Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Mamatus
 


I looked into this situation the first day it came up and came to the same conclusions you did.
I just didn't see the point of posting here when the vast majority of people have their minds made up that Bundy is some kind of hero. He's sucking off the federal teat and not paying for it (like every other rancher does). Hmmm... I thought most of his supporters would be upset about that, but they seem to support him 100%.


Its like, no matter how wrong a person is, could be a murderer or a theif, as long as he oppose the government, he is a hero.

Well, some people tend think, we all know who they are.

Its like their revolution fantasy come to life, sadly, if a shot was fire at the agents, all of them would be dead.


+9 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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well when you compare bundy's claim to the land against obama's claim to the land one thing stands in bundy's favour;
at least bundy has valid ID



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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Cenk Uygur tends to nail whatever he's talking about.


+6 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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Just like almost everybody else you have failed to touch on the fact that the BLM is placing unmanageable permitting and rental fees. Farmers and ranchers live on a very tiny margin of profit vs expense. In most cases below five%. When the BLM comes in raising the permit fees, they know exactly what they are doing... Running the ranchers out of business. They have found themselves in control of the public lands and have decided to use it for a profit. They don't serve the public, they don't ask the public how it is that they should manage the lands or what is in the best interests of the public that rightfully owns this property. They just look at it as a resource to be harvested. The ranchers don't fit In anymore.

If you've dealt with the BLM, you should understand how they work. It works the same for renters in the city when a developer wants the land and the tactics are the same. It's simple really. It doesn't mean that the Bundy family are squatters. They have just taken advantage of land that has always been for the public use in this fashion. It is a right that was and is promised to us in many places all the time. The Bundys are standing up for their rights.


+7 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by Mamatus
 


I held my comment until I watched the video.

I have one big issue with this "young turks" fact checking and also a few things he said, as well as a few "talking points" he brought up a few times......

First off, it appeared his fact checking was pretty much limited to quoting quit a few things based off of SNOPES articles until towards the end where he mention one or two other sources.

He also mentioned at the very beginning that he would address the information that was presented in the Stormcloudsgathering video about the BLM website scrubbing information. He NEVER addressed that! Why? Why would the Feds go thru the trouble to have the old cached version of the BLM statement scrubbed from the internet if it was not trying to hide something? Also, why would this guy state that he would address it in this video and then never mention it again? Did HE forget, or did he just expect the rest of us to forget?

Let's also not forget where he mentioned, it is not a good idea for a Sheriff to question or confront Federal authorities!! WHAT??? The county sheriff is the ONLY elected law enforcement officer that us peons have any say in representing us!

Onto the talking points.....

1.Clive Bundy is stealing from us by not paying his taxes on the land he is using!

Really? With the amount of our governments wasteful spending a little ole rancher is stealing from US?

2.GUNS! No need to discuss that any further, except I find it amazing how government sympathizers don't have a problem with the government forcing us to acquiesce by the barrel of a gun, but bad for us to question and point a barrel back at them....

3.It's Federal Land.

That's a good one. I have seen people post many a map of the land the Federal government owns in that area. It amazes me that we even call some of those places STATES anymore!

4.Here is the BIG one! EVERYONE ELSE IS PAYING THESE FEES!!!

Who is everyone else? It is my understanding that all of the other ranchers in the area have pretty much gone under, because they can't afford to pay the fees! So at least can we see a list of ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE?


Perhaps Bundy is in the wrong. But I support him for taking a stand! He is an American citizen whom is raising cattle to feed other people and try to make a living. How about all the other Federal taxes he IS paying? I wonder how many people whom are demonizing him for questioning a tyrannical government are all for amnesty? Seems okay to point a finger at this guy while allowing millions whom are not even citizens of this country get away with not paying taxes and "STEAL OUR MONEY"!

The price of beef is starting to sky rocket! For those of you whom support Big Brother, think about how great HE is the next time you go to the grocery store to buy your nice juicy steak!



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 


Try watching it again with your points in mind.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by seeker1963
 


Whoa there..... Did you say SNOPES articles? Well hell, I was going to check that link out until you mentioned that... SNOPES has already been debunked to be a husband and wife, sitting at home on a computer "clarifying" articles and issues. They tend to be less reliable and more biased than Wikipedia. Anything their articles say, I tend to take with a grain of salt...... And a shot of tequila


+1 more 
posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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I'll take the word of a judge who usually nails it over some no name reporter
anyday


"The draconian, authoritarian way that the government is going after Mr. Bundy is obviously to try and scare him, and scare ranchers, and send a message which is utterly un-American and not consistent with a free people," Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court judge, told "Fox & Friends" on Tuesday.

Bundy clashed with officials of the Bureau of Land Management over grazing rights on federal land. Armed agents seized 400 head of the rancher's cattle after an April 9 standoff that resulted in injuries to Bundy's son and sister.

Napolitano said the proper procedure for resolving a dispute would be to file documents in the court system, not through the use of force by the government.

"When you owe the government money, they don't come with guns and troops. And they don't threaten the media that are there to cover it. You file a document in the courthouse, and it's a judgment on the property," Napolitano said.

Napolitano said he was "shocked" to see federal agents dressed like troops "in camouflage and with M-16s" adding that the BLM is not "a military or a law-enforcement entity."

During the standoff, BLM agents established a free speech zone for Bundy supporters several miles from the confrontation. Napolitano said that was a direct violation of their First Amendment's freedom of speech rights.

"The First Amendment presumes that you can say anything you want about the government. And if the government makes it impossible for the government to hear what you're saying by putting you three miles away, then the government has interfered with your First Amendment rights," he said.

Newsmax.com www.newsmax.com...


Napolitano again criticized the federal government’s heavy handed methods in the dispute, choosing to steal Bundy’s property rather than file a lien against him in order to claim the grazing fees they claim he owes.
The judge sees Reid inserting himself into the saga as a troubling indication, suggesting it’s a sign that the feds will “probably will move back in,” with a new “show of force,” but that they will be met by ” a lot of resistance from a lot of patriotic Americans who don’t like the federal government using guns to do what they should be doing with paper and pencil.”
Napolitano also pointed out that Reid’s former advisor Neil Kornze is now director of the Bureau of Land Management and that Reid “obviously has a personal and political relationship” with the dispute.
www.infowars.com...

instead of filing a legal LIEN
the blm tried to sell the cattle they stole
they couldn't...no one of the buyers would take them
cattle rustling was once a hanging offence


Reports: Company Tied to Reid's Son Wants Land in Bundy Standoff
Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.newsmax.com...


oh look! FREE MONEY...well ...not for the peeps....for the Reids


Harry Reid connected to Bundy cattle ranch, according to purged documents...
...Land the Bundy family has been using for cattle ranching was getting in the way of that project, according to documents formerly posted on the Bureau of Land Management’s government website but since removed

www.bizpacreview.com...

purged documents...oh my....

next it will be drones talking YOUR LAND

edit on Wedpm4b20144America/Chicago31 by Danbones because: (no reason given)





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