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greencmp
tinner07
reply to post by greencmp
What I am saying is, nobody is forced to join a union. If you want to work in a union shop you have to join the union, but you can choose not to take the job.
If you don't want to swim, don't take a job as a lifeguard, you don't want deal with blood, don't become a surgeon, don't want to join a union, don't apply at a union shop.
I have worked in many union sheet metal shops and we have had non union employees. They were not sheet metal workers though. Truck drivers and such.
The OP's question was inquiring as to why unions are considered ultimately evil and destructive to society.
When a group of employees agree to consolidate their negotiations that is one thing. When these associations merge and become massive institutions, that is another.
Most of the perceived anti-union sentiment is actually anti-public-sector-union which is a completely different conversation.
There is no excuse for public sector unions, they must be eradicated.
WhiteAlice
greencmp
tinner07
reply to post by greencmp
What I am saying is, nobody is forced to join a union. If you want to work in a union shop you have to join the union, but you can choose not to take the job.
If you don't want to swim, don't take a job as a lifeguard, you don't want deal with blood, don't become a surgeon, don't want to join a union, don't apply at a union shop.
I have worked in many union sheet metal shops and we have had non union employees. They were not sheet metal workers though. Truck drivers and such.
The OP's question was inquiring as to why unions are considered ultimately evil and destructive to society.
When a group of employees agree to consolidate their negotiations that is one thing. When these associations merge and become massive institutions, that is another.
Most of the perceived anti-union sentiment is actually anti-public-sector-union which is a completely different conversation.
There is no excuse for public sector unions, they must be eradicated.
How is that any different from large corporations banding together to form lobbies and special interest groups like ALEC? I'm going to type out a power hierarchy and I'd like to know if you disagree with its validity here in terms of governmental influence:
individual < union < corporation < corporate lobby/special interest
Is that true? If it isn't true, why not?
So free riders should get the same wages and benefits as their union member co-workers? Naw...I don't think so.
greencmp
Free voluntary associations of citizens are not inherently evil. However, unionism has many problems not least of which being the tendency to be mandatory in any given shop or trade. Also, the use of violence and intimidation to prevent non-union workers from supplying labor is criminal.
JohnnyCanuck
So free riders should get the same wages and benefits as their union member co-workers? Naw...I don't think so.
greencmp
Free voluntary associations of citizens are not inherently evil. However, unionism has many problems not least of which being the tendency to be mandatory in any given shop or trade. Also, the use of violence and intimidation to prevent non-union workers from supplying labor is criminal.
Let's compare Walmart vs Costco? Cuz I think your data is rectally sourced.
greencmp
Yes, workers shouldn't be bullied into paying protection money to any gang. Frankly, non-union workers should negotiate for more money considering the productivity increases they offer.
JohnnyCanuck
Let's compare Walmart vs Costco? Cuz I think your data is rectally sourced.
greencmp
Yes, workers shouldn't be bullied into paying protection money to any gang. Frankly, non-union workers should negotiate for more money considering the productivity increases they offer.
How, pray tell, do Walmart employees negotiate anything?
greencmp
JohnnyCanuck
Let's compare Walmart vs Costco? Cuz I think your data is rectally sourced.
greencmp
Yes, workers shouldn't be bullied into paying protection money to any gang. Frankly, non-union workers should negotiate for more money considering the productivity increases they offer.
You don't think Walmart employees should negotiate for more money?
WhiteAlice
reply to post by greencmp
I wasn't talking about any specific union in particular but unions in general. How is employee representation within corporate governance a bad thing? Boards for corporations are meant to represent the various interests of the stakeholders of a corporation. Shareholders are also represented within the board of a corporation and, typically, the CEO is also a member of that board. Why is it bad to have someone who represents the non-executive workers within that board as well?
P.S. You didn't quite answer my question as to whether that hierarchy of power is correct or not.edit on 16/4/14 by WhiteAlice because: (no reason given)
greencmp
WhiteAlice
reply to post by greencmp
I wasn't talking about any specific union in particular but unions in general. How is employee representation within corporate governance a bad thing? Boards for corporations are meant to represent the various interests of the stakeholders of a corporation. Shareholders are also represented within the board of a corporation and, typically, the CEO is also a member of that board. Why is it bad to have someone who represents the non-executive workers within that board as well?
P.S. You didn't quite answer my question as to whether that hierarchy of power is correct or not.edit on 16/4/14 by WhiteAlice because: (no reason given)
You were reacting to comments made regarding public sector unions.
greencmp
JohnnyCanuck
Let's compare Walmart vs Costco? Cuz I think your data is rectally sourced.
greencmp
Yes, workers shouldn't be bullied into paying protection money to any gang. Frankly, non-union workers should negotiate for more money considering the productivity increases they offer.
You don't think Walmart employees should negotiate for more money?
This is an interesting take on the Walmart/Costco comparison.
Why Can’t Walmart Be More Like Costco?edit on 16-4-2014 by greencmp because: (no reason given)
Again, nonsense. I was a chief steward and was very busy winning grievances.
Cyberspy
I'm in management now and no fan unions. Once upon I time they were needed. Not any more.
FlyersFan
Unions started out as a VERY good thing. Very much needed. They did a lot of good.
However, as time went on, they corrupted. This happens when power and money are involved.
The unions are no longer even a shadow of what they started out to be.
Their time of doing good is over.
JohnnyCanuck
Again, nonsense. I was a chief steward and was very busy winning grievances.
Cyberspy
I'm in management now and no fan unions. Once upon I time they were needed. Not any more.