US Is an Oligarchy Not a Democracy, says Scientific Study

reply to post by LDragonFire


We don't have a republic either, the country isn't ran by a prime minister.

The problem with a republic is that the country wounds up being by oligarchies.

Both Democracies and Republics have their problems, and our form of government was designed to avoid those problems.

alldaylong
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

I am surprised that some Americans have taken so long to wake up to this.
The US was founded by businessmen in the main, for the BENEFIT of businessmen.

Bingo! Yep, wealthy merchants, many with noble ties, who invested in the Plymouth and London Companies. Looking at the descendents of Charlemagne statistics in the US really shows who founded this country because we actually have a pretty high number of descendents of nobility here. (Also partly explains the presidents being related thing).

In fact, if one looks at the course of history in terms of priority of concern, James Madison in Federalist #10:

But the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property. Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society. Those who are creditors, and those who are debtors, fall under a like discrimination. A landed interest, a manufacturing interest, a mercantile interest, a moneyed interest, with many lesser interests, grow up of necessity in civilized nations, and divide them into different classes, actuated by different sentiments and views. The regulation of these various and interfering interests forms the principal task of modern legislation, and involves the spirit of party and faction in the necessary and ordinary operations of the government.

www.constitution.org...

The above is presumed to be exactly why we do not have a direct democracy and instead are "allowed" a representative democracy. So we don't vote directly on policy. We elect others to represent us in such matters. This is actually yet another tattered point as the balance for necessary faction and maintenance was the source of why we have the House of Representatives and the Senate. The House was to represent the majority interests (faction) and they were to be offset by the appointment of Senators, who were expected to be wealthy, educated and older men. The Senate became subject to democracy (bad thing or not, I'm unsure) and the House basically gets plied with monied interests while essentially spitting out rhetoric that stimulates an emotional appeal to specific groups instead of focusing on actual policies that really matter.

Like I said previously, Shays' Rebellion scared the bejeesus out of them. Additionally, across the pond in France, things were starting to get a bit hairy by 1787 (storming of the Bastille wasn't til July of 1789). There was plenty of motivation to see that the primary cause of faction to be the have-nots and the "beleaguered" minority to be the haves. We were tilted that way from the start. The issue is that, many of the changes that have occurred have tipped the scale entirely.

The super-rich can easily control our democracy because there are effectively only two parties and the super-rich control the candidates. Take your pick, red or blue, they are both very similar. Proportional Representation is better as it allows the emergence of new parties and ideas. Revolutions don't seem to work.

The fix is a lot easier than people think. Get rid of life time (career) politicians by enforcing term limits on ALL levels of government. Also get rid of government pensions after they serve...or at least make it a short-term benefit like 5 years after service, or whatever. After that, you integrate back into the workforce and figure it out on your own like all the other people in this country.

WhiteAlice

alldaylong
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

I am surprised that some Americans have taken so long to wake up to this.
The US was founded by businessmen in the main, for the BENEFIT of businessmen.

Bingo! Yep, wealthy merchants, many with noble ties, who invested in the Plymouth and London Companies. Looking at the descendents of Charlemagne statistics in the US really shows who founded this country because we actually have a pretty high number of descendents of nobility here. (Also partly explains the presidents being related thing).

In fact, if one looks at the course of history in terms of priority of concern, James Madison in Federalist #10:

But the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property. Those who hold and those who are without property have ever formed distinct interests in society. Those who are creditors, and those who are debtors, fall under a like discrimination. A landed interest, a manufacturing interest, a mercantile interest, a moneyed interest, with many lesser interests, grow up of necessity in civilized nations, and divide them into different classes, actuated by different sentiments and views. The regulation of these various and interfering interests forms the principal task of modern legislation, and involves the spirit of party and faction in the necessary and ordinary operations of the government.

www.constitution.org...

The above is presumed to be exactly why we do not have a direct democracy and instead are "allowed" a representative democracy. So we don't vote directly on policy. We elect others to represent us in such matters. This is actually yet another tattered point as the balance for necessary faction and maintenance was the source of why we have the House of Representatives and the Senate. The House was to represent the majority interests (faction) and they were to be offset by the appointment of Senators, who were expected to be wealthy, educated and older men. The Senate became subject to democracy (bad thing or not, I'm unsure) and the House basically gets plied with monied interests while essentially spitting out rhetoric that stimulates an emotional appeal to specific groups instead of focusing on actual policies that really matter.

Like I said previously, Shays' Rebellion scared the bejeesus out of them. Additionally, across the pond in France, things were starting to get a bit hairy by 1787 (storming of the Bastille wasn't til July of 1789). There was plenty of motivation to see that the primary cause of faction to be the have-nots and the "beleaguered" minority to be the haves. We were tilted that way from the start. The issue is that, many of the changes that have occurred have tipped the scale entirely.

edit on 15/4/14 by WhiteAlice because: added source link

A "real" revolution is led by the poor and down trodden. As in the Peasants' Revolt in England 1381. Taxation was one of the issues of that revolt.
The revolt in the 13 colonies was led by the rich and wealthy landed gentry. They who already had a lot wanted even more. That's not a cause for a "Peoples Revolution". America's founding fathers where motivated by greed, and hoodwinked the less well off into joining their cause.

reply to post by alldaylong


Yeah, but what other country had such wilderness and magnificent places for the poor to explore, hunt, track and settle.

Donkey_Dean
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini.

We live in a land where the great masses of the population has no real voice, while a corporation has the right to spend unlimited amounts of money to effect its political ambitions.

A land where a corporation is allowed to hide what they feed us and the people have no right to know what they are eating. Our beef is packed full of hormones that are illegal in much of the world even China, and genetically modified crops rule the day. A land where a corporation controls our press and in turn holds sway over public opinion etc.. A person could go on and on here you know!

We don't have a democracy people and we have Crony capitalism that basically killed the mom an pop operation/American dream. Add to that fact all federal agencies will just laugh off any Congressional oversight and in turn be unaccountable to the people.

What does that make our system of Government? Should we coin a term?

A more perfect union was the goal of our forefathers! We can effect the same!

When Holder and other fed agencies can just ignore contempt of Congress charges we no longer have a government which answers to the people. When secret police rule the day and our every move and every word we speak is recorded and monitored. When the president can use signing powers to bypass Congress and effect or rewrite laws. We no longer have a representative democracy but rather live in Despotism.

Congress will never vote to reform itself, not without being forced! So longs as we continue to vote for plastic men, those pre selects we get to choose from then there is no hope of reform! If you vote the two party system you are part of the problem. Public office should be a reward of merit not a contest of funds.

If you have ever read the charters of freedom on which this country was founded, you would see that action is demanded. Will we see it? I think only if the Feds allow a confrontation. People are most certainly looking for a showdown!

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

edit on 14-4-2014 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

This was such an awesome post...
I just had to bump it...
*stands and applaudes*

I reported this story over a year ago..and it ended up straight in HOAX.
Sorcha Faal made the report,I keep an eye on them for studies sake.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ObservingYou
I reported this story over a year ago..and it ended up straight in HOAX.
Sorcha Faal made the report,I keep an eye on them for studies sake.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The story in this thread is a report released April 9, 2014 found here li nk Ifs not the same that you posted.

reply to post by FyreByrd


What a wasted amount of research time and money I am glad I have my thinking cap on because I almost erroneously gave a star to this OP thread, then I had to stop dead in my tracks and think about the word "Oligarchy" for about a millisecond, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what form of government we truly have and I am sorry, from all data, indicators and observations if this question were on an exam and there was checkbox for oligarchy and one for corporatocracy I would give correct answers for the latter, because we know that there is a small group of individuals but in most of those instances those individuals are using corporate fronts and influence to indirectly steer real policies and legislation via lobbying and special interest groups, not really individuals , two legal distinctions as well ....

One of the key differences are the definition of a natural person opposed to a legal person in an oligarchy you have identifiable individuals in official capacities or government seats presiding in small number, well we know that that since corporations do really have the influence and cannot hold office that would not really satisfy the Oligarchy analysis, most of the power and influence that control the government truly are not the faces and people occupying official seats or that have been elected, we all should know this, therefore, it is more fitting to define the government we have as a corporatacry.

Just my two cents..corporate personhood has transformed the U.S. in more ways than you can really measure.

Great article but again, I think my observation trumps their waste of time.

LDragonFire

ObservingYou
I reported this story over a year ago..and it ended up straight in HOAX.
Sorcha Faal made the report,I keep an eye on them for studies sake.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The story in this thread is a report released April 9, 2014 found here li nk Ifs not the same that you posted.

Not the literal 'report' .. But the common recognition of the subject matter.

According to Sorcha Faal the Russains had already labelled America as a Plutocracy to be held at arms length.

I'd quote it here, but I'm censored from providing that particular source.

What a crock.

The US is an 'oligarchy' ! ! !

The US is not a 'democracy' ??

It isn't ?

IT ISN'T ?

Yeah it is.

The people use it's government to give them things.

Those things are corporate products.

From healthcare to fiat currency so they can go out, and buy more stuff.

The US national debt 17+ trillion dollars.

But that is not the real debt:

US 'unfunded' liabilities (SS,medicare,medicaid,prescription drugs) which is the money OWED to the people so they can go out, and buy more stuff (CORPORATE PRODUCTS).

Is over $128 trillion dollars

House Hold Assets is over $84 trillion dollars.

www.usdebtclock.org...

The biggest 'oligarchs' in this country is the PEOPLE themselves, and when they cry about how they 'don't have enough' they use mob rule( democracy) to give themselves MORE STUFF.

Back to the endless corporate vilification.

reply to post by ScreenBogey


Plutocracy is not a form of government. An Oligarchy is a real form of government. Therefore, it is an Oligarchy. Plutocracy could be a subset or by product of an Oligarchy.

Scientists had to study this to figure it out? Plato had it nailed thousands of years ago. After oligarchy comes democracy (which is degradation, btw) followed by tyranny. It's simple philosophy.

Just read Plato's Book of the Republic, it's all in there.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by FyreByrd


The US was never a Democracy. It is a Federal Republic.

Shut up and go back to class.

Yes, yes and yup.... correct and affirmative... ding, ding ding.

And yes, again... it kills me that "conservatives" are manipulated (when they aren't wealthy or powerful, that is) to support this take-over by monied interests... this is the usurpation of the "American Ideal" happening right now... in real time. And I know the word "manipulated" is loaded and riles people... but we are ALL susceptible to manipulation... the trick is to identify and consciously reject such manipulation.

I'm usually accused of being a stupid liberal when I dare bring this up... but that's exactly my point... it isn't left or right... it's right and wrong, dammit. Our system is now largely corrupt and laws helping the average citizen are not passed with any regularity anymore... I can think of the credit card reform act (thanks Elizabeth Warren) and a portion of "Obamacare" as the only laws beneficial to an average working stiff that have been passed in recent memory... think about that.

But the hackles will come up and arbitrary teams chosen and our clueless, corrupt rulers will laugh all the way to their off-shore villas...

AnotherSorryGuy
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

The US was never a Democracy. It is a Federal Republic.

Shut up and go back to class.

That may have been the intent when the USA was established. Clearly today the US is a corporate oligarchy.

Anyone who cannot see it is blind.

reply to post by AnotherSorryGuy


Hey rudeness, when people say that the US is a democracy or was, they don't mean it's the form of government... they mean we are supposed to be practicing democracy which means, we choose our government. Both Constitutional Republics and Representative Republics are democratic because the people choose their representatives.

USSR and People's Republic of China are/were also Republics but they didn't practice Democracy (not Socialism either despite the word being used)... either way, the people didn't/don't choose their representatives like we do. We choose our representation, that makes the US democratic.

In an oligarchic state the people's power to choose their representatives is increasingly just an illusion.

qwerty12345
It's supposed to be a Republic not a democracy to begin with.

Yes, and we can't have it with out the people and of course the people either think they are to small and, or to weak for change. Maybe just to ignorant to want the change that's so badly needed. The truth is the whole of US and the U.S. would have to come together to get it. The real truth is the truth is so hidden most everyone knows nothing about it, the ones who do laugh at the ones struggling to find it. i guess it's also kind of hard when a lot of people think the gov. is on their side and also i heard my mom my girlfriend and like 90% of the people i ask say i don't care. But, it's the young people including me the 16-30 year old people that have to want the change if it is to come but they won't want it... not till it's to late GL to all when it hit whenever that may be. NICE POST!

reply to post by FyreByrd

I agree....

This is where it all Happened.....


We all have to remember we are a republic. We should all ask ourselves just like JFK said, Ask not of what our country can do for us, but what can we do for our country, We the people should tell this country that this country belongs to "We The People" and not to the Elected people that we voted to serve us and not the Bankers of the world. The Act of 1871 - Is this the source of all our problems? You Bet it is!

The United States Isn't a Country— It's a Corporation! by Lisa Guliani

We belong to the World Bankers....

With the Act of 1871 and subsequent legislation such as the purportedly ratified 14th Amendment, our once-great nation of Sovereigns has been subverted from a Republic to a democracy. As is the case under Roman Civil Law, our ignorance of the facts has led to our silence. Our silence has been construed as our consent to become beneficiaries of a debt we did not incur. The Sovereign People have been deceived for hundreds of years into thinking they remain free and independent, when in actuality we continue to be slaves and servants of the corporation. because of this. The conniving international bankers were not about to lend our floundering nation any money without some serious stipulations. So, they devised a brilliant way of getting their foot in the door of the United States (a prize they had coveted for some time, but had been unable to grasp thanks to our Founding Fathers, who despised them and held them in check), and thus, the Act of 1871 was passed. In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. and then in 1913 the FED Banks. Note the capitalization, because it is important. This corporation, owned by foreign interests, moved right in and shoved the original "organic" version of the Constitution into a dusty corner. With the "Act of 1871," our Constitution was defaced in the sense that the title was block-capitalized and the word "for" was changed to the word "of" in the title. The original Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers, was written in this manner:

"The Constitution for the united states of America".

www.serendipity.li...