How Lending A Friend Your Car, Then Going to Bed Can Land You a Life Prison Sentence

Once again we have disasterous nonsense from the state of Florida and the US ***INJUSTICE*** system. Here we have a young life destroyed for what seems like a tyrannical law by what seems to be an ever increasing presence of laws and police in modern society.

From the source...

Adam Liptak about Ryan Holle. Ryan, who had no prior record, is serving a life sentence with no chance of parole in Florida. He was convicted of pre-meditated murder, even though no one, including the prosecutor, disputes that Ryan was asleep in his bed at home at the time of the crime.

This is what you get i guess..

Every other country including England, India and Canada has gotten rid of it because of its unintended consequences.

Oh draconian laws?

Felony Murder Rule, that a person should be held responsible for his own actions not the actions of others.

All these people who run these systems are well educated, sooo.... why aren't they intelligent and why do they support draconian laws that have unintended consequences?

I really feel for this kid. I wish i could take him to the gym and teach him some muay thai and BJJ so he could defend himself while hes on a level 4 yard learning VERY hard lessons from VERY serious criminals.

From what you have posted and from what I have read in the link provided this is very odd indeed.
Am I to gather that if I lend my neighbour my lawnmower and he takes the initiative to mow a living person down and is successful in his quest I am going to prison for the rest of my life?

This is very disturbing, anyone is at fault for anyone's actions then is it?


Then in my opinion only there is a lot of imprisonment coming up shortly and that will include all of us on this planet.

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by onequestion


It isn't about JUSTICE anymore!

It is about OPPRESSION and CONDITIONING we just damn well better accept it!

Hell, look at the children in our school systems that are getting tossed out for eating a poptart in such a way it looks like a GUN!!! OOOOOHHHHH SCARY!!!

The CORPORATE/PRIVATE prison system would be the first thing we need to get rid of as citizens!

Perhaps standing outside a courthouse and demanding a judges head just might help solve this problem??? It's up to the people of that community to organize and bring this kind of injustice to the media's attention!
Look at what just happened in Nevada!!!

I live in PA and we just had a judge indicted for being in bed with a private prison in which he sent children to prison for reasons that were just insane! He got paid for everyone of them he put in!!!!

It is time for people whom live in communities with judges that hand down these kind of unjust judgments to rise the hell up and stand outside the courthouse and DEMAND the judge be disbarred!

Being silent will never solve anything!

reply to post by seeker1963


Funny you mention that... i grew up in that town. But your right, i live in florida i'm going to have to lookup whats happening in that area.

I know they do it for DUI/DWI also. If someone is driving your vehicle and gets a DUI...the owner does also.
Pretty much a crock of it and seems just like a money grab for the court systems to me.

onequestion
reply to post by seeker1963

 

Funny you mention that... i grew up in that town. But your right, i live in florida i'm going to have to lookup whats happening in that area.

He got popped hard and is in prison! As he should be!

It is an interesting story to catch up on!

His daughter is actually an attorney that is trying to work with the kids whom got basically judiciously raped by her father and is having a hard time getting some of the kids to even trust her.....

Can't blame them!

I just looked up what town this happened in and it happened in Pensacola, FL. It happened a few years ago but apparently there is ongoing involvement with this case.

reply to post by seeker1963


I know most of those kids and the town that it happened in is a cesspool of criminal activity. As cost of living goes up in Newark and NYC, the poor move out of the area and into that area because the cost of living is rock bottom.

Whats happening in that area is REALLY sad, as sad as this story. Its the next Detroit.

The U.S.'s Felony Murder Law is obviously unjust.

One other case that comes to mind is a group of teenagers in AZ, on bikes, who shoplifted a case of beer from a corner store. As they were pedaling away, the clerk ran out and grabbed the handlebars of one of the group.

The thieving kid had a gun that the rest of the group did not even know he had. They were doing a 'grab and run' for some beer and were planning on getting drunk in a dry stream bed nearby... nothing worse than that.

The kid panicked and killed the clerk. Horrible incident.

The kids were easily found (they may have turned themselves in... I'm fuzzy) and all were freaking out, crying like the kids they were, and all condemning the idiot who killed a man for no reason.

Following the letter of this unjust law they were ALL sentenced to life in prison... and they were also sentenced under the new laws that prosecute kids as adults... they were all under 18... one was 13 I think.

If my memory serves, one other kid who had just loaned his stupid bike to one of the group was also convicted.

Laws that take wise judgement from Judges and create situations like this are created from stupid knee-jerk reactions from politicians and the public. They are no good in any way.

It is embarrassing to live in such a country where common sense is not valued and blanket, automated sentences are handed out without regard to circumstances and intent.

It is not just in any way.

onequestion
I just looked up what town this happened in and it happened in Pensacola, FL. It happened a few years ago but apparently there is ongoing involvement with this case.

That's cool!

We all know how easy we forget things?

Remaining vigilant is always important!

reply to post by Baddogma


This is embarrassing. I think intelligent observers really need to start taking positions of leadership in the community to put a stop to all the DUMBA** in charge.

I am curious as to how this law came about, no matter where it is applied and where it is now banished.
What I am asking is what country introduced this law and why?
I have not got the time to spare for a search at this time in my life.
Any serious researchers out there in ATS land?

Regards, Iwinder

ok i agree that he shouldn't have gotten life, but if he knew that his roommate was planning to break into someones house and lent them the car any way, which he did, below is a wiki. well to tuff rockos buddy. he more or less participated in the crime. you can bet he was waiting to get some of that left handed wacky tobacky

Holle, who had given the police statements in which he seemed to admit knowing about the burglary, was convicted on August 3, 2004,[3] of first-degree murder under a legal doctrine known as the felony murder rule.[2] The doctrine broadens murder liability for participants in violent felonies to include a killing by an accomplice
Ryan Holle

he was condoning a crime, did nothing to stop a crime that he knew was gonna happen, and more than likely stood to benefit from the crime.

you can bet that he would have been yelling for Christine Snyder head if she had been there and taken her shotgun to his buddies.
they gave him the chance to only do ten years, he chose to gamble, folks in fl don't play, jury will burn your ass quick if they think you are involved in a crime.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie


Im not quick to trust wiki is there any other sources?

reply to post by onequestion


i trust this one i live just 20 mins away in Milton Fl and go to work in Pensacola everyday, it was a big story for a while.

and here in the wiki it says he admits in a inter view they told him but thought they were joking.

In a 2007 interview with The New York Times, Holle stated that "I honestly thought they were going to get food," adding that "When they actually mentioned what was going on, I thought it was a joke."[2] He explained that he was naive, and had been drinking all night, so he "didn't understand what was going on."[2]

reply to post by Iwinder


If your friend says "can I borrow your lawn mower to go run over someone and kill them" and you let them use the lawn mower, when you get to court saying "I thought he was joking" is not an alibi.

When presented with a hard choice of life without parole and ten years for the above mower massacre (that you had fore knowledge of) and you puff up and say "I'm going to trial", don't ask for mercy when your candy ass gets life without parole. You chose to roll those dice.

*I am saying YOU in general here not to you the poster. Just wanted to be clear.

200Plus
reply to post by Iwinder

 

If your friend says "can I borrow your lawn mower to go run over someone and kill them" and you let them use the lawn mower, when you get to court saying "I thought he was joking" is not an alibi.

When presented with a hard choice of life without parole and ten years for the above mower massacre (that you had fore knowledge of) and you puff up and say "I'm going to trial", don't ask for mercy when your candy ass gets life without parole. You chose to roll those dice.

*I am saying YOU in general here not to you the poster. Just wanted to be clear.

Understood, and star for you well said and no arguments here at this point in time.

Still how many people that are truely innocent have been sent away for life due to this law?

Regards, Iwinder

So, the fact that he admitted, in his own words, in his own testimony, that he knew the people he loaned his car to, were going to commit a home invasion and robbery, means absolutely nothing?

I guess the fact that back when this happened, home invasions were on the rise, young men had no problem bursting into homes where people were awake in their living rooms, kitchens, and bedrooms, and murdering them, slaughtering them, for even just a few, maybe even 10 dollars. But, just because he is some young kid, it makes it okay?

This makes the lot of you either ignorant of the facts of the case, or, what I like to call 'Bleeding Heart Liberals'.

When you are aware of a crime being committed, and fail to report said crime, you can, and should be, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. You are covering up the commission of a crime, and that makes you as much of a POS as the person that is the one actively commiting it.

In other words, the girl that was murdered in the commission of this crime, she doesn't matter. The 'poor young, sleeping, boy that wasn't even there!' matters. He was guilty!

Know why he got life? Because he was arrogant. He thought he could fight the case and win. The 'I thought he was joking' was an afterthought, or a defense tactic, I promise you.

Well, let me explain how the law works, because it appears many of you aren't aware.

When you get charged with a crime, and you are guilty, and you know it, and they know it, here is what they do. They offer you a deal. Do a little time, plead guilty, do a reduced sentence usually about half, sometimes even less, then go home. You even get time off for good behaviour, sentence reductions for prisons that give them. Such as for every one year you serve, you get credit for 3 to 5, they do this for overcrowding. But, to get these benefits, you have to plead guilty, and take the offer they make.

If, on the other hand, you are arrogant, and decide to plead innocent, and fight the case all the way, with a jury trial and all, the court retains the right, and usually will, throw the mandatory full sentence possible at you, "For wasting the courts' time and money".

Trials cost money, take up valuable court time that could be spent on other things, you are seen as wasting court time on a frivolous trial, when the outcome is generally known ahead of time. You really have no chance of winning, especially when you make an admission such as, 'I knew what he was going to do, I knew they were going to commit a home invasion, but I loaned him the car and went to sleep.'

Really? Yet, you somehow see yourself as innocent because you weren't there?!

You gave him the primary tool with which to get there, and with which to eventually escape with his spoils were he successful.

Some of you have some deep soul searching to do. He is right where he should be, and right where he deserves to be. I don't care how old he was. He aided and abetted a criminal, and is just as guilty as if he pulled the trigger himself.

How none of you see this, is beyond me, but, one thing I can promise is, if your child lay dead on the floor, you would want justice for all involved, including the person that loaned them the car, fully knowing what their intent was. The only reason you feel any other way is because you have no personal investment, or, you don't have the facts of the case. Otherwise, you are ignorant of how these 'draconian' laws work.

They aren't so 'draconian' when your child dies.

reply to post by Iwinder


Hundreds if not tens of thousands get a raw deal from our supposed justice system. I will not argue that.

There is usually a grain of guilt that people want to ignore.

I have an Aunt that broke into a house back in the 70's. She was upstairs and her boyfriend was downstairs robbing the place. He came across the owner and stabbed her and she died as a result. He took a plea and served a total of 7 years. My Aunt wasn't offered a plea and served 24 years. She didn't even see the body.

Life isn't fair. However, when people make choices they accept the inherent risks. At least they are supposed to.

reply to post by onequestion


blame the JUDGE!

the judge could have declared a mistrial, unless the judge is a complete [snipped]