Good evidence for Atheism and Theism.

Firstly people argue that design is evident, that possibility of life is so incredibly small that it's almost impossible so God must've had a hand in this. The complexity of the human being is mindblowing and the nuances of it's functions so harmoniously intertwined (saying nothing of just life in general) that it would take a mind of sufficient power to produce such an entity.

Using mathematics and probability/possibilities in this way does more harm than good when it comes to the idea of God for the following reason: if the complexity of life, and especially humans makes the possibility of us just existing from any other source/reason a nigh impossibility... than a being of God's complexity is theoretically a mathematical impossibility. "He" has an even lesser chance of existing than we do, if any at all.

Second, people can't fathom the universe just Big Banged into existence without some "push" or nudge from a higher power - this is where God comes in. The idea that the universe or reality in whole is unacceptable.

There's a problem in this too. The first comes down to whether or not you believe in the idea of infinity or more specifically something can just "exist" without ever having a beginning or end. This is a particularly hard question for theists. To answer No, we'll get into in just a moment. To answer yes would mean to acknowledge that, yes, there are things in this universe that can just "exist" because that's what God does. The problem with answering "yes" is that it begs another question: Why is it ok for God to be infinite and not the universe/reality? If the theist answered "No" to the original question, no doubt thinking that there's no possible way the universe/reality just "is", it spawns a troublesome dilemma. You must then posit that everything in reality has a beginning and an end - including God. So what or who created God? Then, what or who created the what/who that created God?...ad infintum... ad nauseam. I don't need to point out the ridiculousness and sheer madness that comes from thinking "what was first?" because there can't be a "first" if you believe all things must have a point of creation. That only leaves one possibility - infinity. The universe, the multiverse, the whole of reality as we understand it, just... "is". And if you acknowledge this than God is not needed to explain the origin of the universe/reality. He becomes... unnecessary.

I'll leave it at this for right now.

ServantOfTheLamb
reply to post by windword

 

A Creative Mind behind the Universe. That is the first step. If there is a Creative Mind behind the Universe, then miracles are possible as long as the Creator outside the system intervenes.

Can you explain to me why matter with no mind reacts to being observed?

Answer (as it usually is): lack of sufficient understanding of the mechanics and the possibility the detection device is interfering with the experiment.

ServantOfTheLamb

Sremmos80
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Why would an agnostic want to play the "prove there is no god" game...?

Why would any one want to play that game? No one ever wins

Why didn't anyone pay attention to me when I stated in the OP that I am not asking for proof. Just evidence. For example, If Santa Clause was real we would see Him at the North Pole. Santa is not there. Nothing at the North Pole implies Santa is there. Therefore it is not probable(not impossible) that a Fat Man in a Red Suit with magical elves and reindeer doesn't live at the north pole. Also since I moved out of my parents house he quit visiting.

Now you should be able to give a similar deduction as to why God is not probable.

edit on 12-4-2014 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

This is actually kind of silly. There's proof for all kinds of things, ideas, theorems we haven't even thought of yet. It's all around us waiting to be discovered. But I digress, are we talking the Abrahamic God, the one whose very description contradicts itself? One that says he's all knowing, is in all places at all times, and yet can not be held responsible for the existence of evil despite that fact that these awesome powers allows Him to not only understand the full consequences of His actions but can physically SEE every thing that's ever happened all at once because of that whole being everywhere all the time thing. Btw, if you need a break down as to how that's logically impossible I'll be happy to do so. Heck it's not just the Abrahamic God's existence that's logically indefensible - there's quite a few... no one sits down to think about it though.

That said - many of the "Gods" described in man made religion are almost (if not out right) impossible to exist. However, this doesn't rule out a greater power unbeknownst to us... or that there aren't beings of vastly greater power and intellect out there...