Good evidence for Atheism and Theism.

I was watching an old debate between Christopher Hitchens and William Lane Craig, and realized I have never asked a question to the ATS. I first want to say that as a Christian I believe that the only side of the Does God exist debate that does not require any faith is to remain neutral. The point of this thread is hopefully to show that Atheism uses faith.

Atheism is a world view, and one thing is has in common with the Christian world view that all other world views are improbable. So I ask to the atheist or agnostics that just want to play, to give me good evidence that God does not exist? I believe there are plenty of evidences for a creator God, but I have never heard any evidences that God is not real. I am not asking for proof, but rather just something we see in the natural world that implies there is no design, and that it is improbable that a God exist.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


You would like evidence that supports which god doesn't exist?

Can you define "god" for us?

reply to post by windword

A Creative Mind behind the Universe. That is the first step. If there is a Creative Mind behind the Universe, then miracles are possible as long as the Creator outside the system intervenes.

Can you explain to me why matter with no mind reacts to being observed?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

As in other topics, how would one go about proving an absence of something?

In terms of god/gods (pick one) doesn't it come down more to belief and not proof?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

If there is a Creative Mind behind the Universe, then miracles are possible as long as the Creator outside the system intervenes.

"If" and "as long as"? What kind of miracles are you talking about?

Can you explain to me why matter with no mind reacts to being observed?

??? Can you provide an example?

Use the ATS search function to look up "Why there is no god". I think your questions will be more than answered.

reply to post by windword


Wave-particle duality.



This seems to me to imply a designer of matter outside the system.

Nm

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Do you see "the observer" as being evidence of a god? Since we are all observers, does that make us gods?

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Why would an agnostic want to play the "prove there is no god" game...?

Why would any one want to play that game? No one ever wins

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

I am not asking for proof, but rather just something we see in the natural world that implies there is no design, and that it is improbable that a God exist.

Cancer. Please show me where God is in that. Or child molestation. Or a shootout at the local school. Or a shootout at the movie theater. Or a bombing at a marathon. Or planes crashing into towers full of innocent people. Or an aerial strike slaughtering thousands of men and women at harbor. Rape. Murder. Disease. Abuse. Starvation. Negligence. Should I go on? There's about 500,000 years worth of stupid, violent, unnecessary and very damaging stuff that's happened without any discernible cause or justification. Stuff that, should a god exist, would force any reasonable thinking individual to call into question that entity's regard for our well-being.

Chamberf=6
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

As in other topics, how would one go about proving an absence of something?

In terms of god/gods (pick one) doesn't it come down more to belief and not proof?

edit on 4/12/2014 by Chamberf=6 because: (no reason given)

Atheist have a world view they hold correct, and it is an absolute. They say it takes no faith to claim that God doesn't exist. There are many evidences that point to the idea of a mind behind the universe. The genetic code of life itself carries semiotic dimension within it. That means it carries meaning. Particular codons code for particular proteins when placed in specific patterns. Sometimes multiple codons can code for the same protein. This is a semiotic dimension. How? Lets say I am talking to a person who has mastered 20 languages. I write the directions "Drive 5 miles north," in all 20 languages. Now this sheet of paper would have many varying "codes" all that portray the same meaning(its semiotic dimension) to move your location 5 miles north. Similarly, the pairing of different nucleotide bases to form a codon that carries the abstract data on how to build a specific protein. This is a semiotic dimension within the code and as far as we know semiotics can only be accounted for with the input of intelligence.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Atheism is the lack of belief in deities.

Faith is belief in something without evidence.

Atheism and faith do not mix for those reasons they are like oil and water they don't mix.

Asking an atheist to prove your god doesn't exist or saying atheism requires faith has been pointed out to be illogical time and time again.

I don't even think the word atheist should be needed we don't need such titles to describe those who do not believe in fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns. A-fairiest, a- leprechaunist, or a-unicornist it is only because there are so many people that believe in some fanciful universe creating deity for which there is no evidence for that we needed a title which explained that we aren't so gullible.

Sremmos80
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Why would an agnostic want to play the "prove there is no god" game...?

Why would any one want to play that game? No one ever wins

Why didn't anyone pay attention to me when I stated in the OP that I am not asking for proof. Just evidence. For example, If Santa Clause was real we would see Him at the North Pole. Santa is not there. Nothing at the North Pole implies Santa is there. Therefore it is not probable(not impossible) that a Fat Man in a Red Suit with magical elves and reindeer doesn't live at the north pole. Also since I moved out of my parents house he quit visiting.

Now you should be able to give a similar deduction as to why God is not probable.

Grimpachi
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Atheism is the lack of belief in deities.

Faith is belief in something without evidence.

Atheism and faith do not mix for those reasons they are like oil and water they don't mix.

Asking an atheist to prove your god doesn't exist or saying atheism requires faith has been pointed out to be illogical time and time again.

I don't even think the word atheist should be needed we don't need such titles to describe those who do not believe in fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns. A-fairiest, a- leprechaunist, or a-unicornist it is only because there are so many people that believe in some fanciful universe creating deity for which there is no evidence for that we needed a title which explained that we aren't so gullible.

I would argue with that, actually. In order to believe in fairies or leprechauns, you would technically have to be theist, given the origin stories ascribed to each. So to disbelieve in leprechauns, unicorns, or fairies, you would have no recourse but to deny their creators as well. Rather interesting, given the disambiguous application of a rather ambiguous principle...but I suppose that betrays the ulterior practicality of such belief. Nobody believes in the leprechauns because the leprechauns are not convenient to invest in.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Now you should be able to give a similar deduction as to why God is not probable.

Again, it goes back to your definition of god. If you mean a guy who flew around in a "pillar of fire" empowering the Israeites to destroy their neighbors, stone their sassy teenagers, then no, physics doesn't confirm your god.

If you're talking about a god that incarnated into a virgin, walked on water and turned water to wine, then had himself murdered in a secret pact with himself, to do this to save us from his own wrath and judgement, then no, physics doesn't bear that out either.

Grimpachi
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Atheism is the lack of belief in deities.

Faith is belief in something without evidence.

Atheism and faith do not mix for those reasons they are like oil and water they don't mix.

Asking an atheist to prove your god doesn't exist or saying atheism requires faith has been pointed out to be illogical time and time again.

I don't even think the word atheist should be needed we don't need such titles to describe those who do not believe in fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns. A-fairiest, a- leprechaunist, or a-unicornist it is only because there are so many people that believe in some fanciful universe creating deity for which there is no evidence for that we needed a title which explained that we aren't so gullible.

Once again I did not ask for proof just evidence of its improbability. A rainbow doesn't have an end, therefore it is probable leprechauns don't exist. I mean that argument is weak man. Its an evasive tactic used to have no obligations to defend such an incredible claim.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

I am not asking for proof, but rather just something we see in the natural world that implies there is no design, and that it is improbable that a God exist.

Cancer. Please show me where God is in that. Or child molestation. Or a shootout at the local school. Or a shootout at the movie theater. Or a bombing at a marathon. Or planes crashing into towers full of innocent people. Or an aerial strike slaughtering thousands of men and women at harbor. Rape. Murder. Disease. Abuse. Starvation. Negligence. Should I go on? There's about 500,000 years worth of stupid, violent, unnecessary and very damaging stuff that's happened without any discernible cause or justification. Stuff that, should a god exist, would force any reasonable thinking individual to call into question that entity's regard for our well-being.

edit on 12-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

But that doesn't call into question the actual existence (or lack thereof); just their motives.

I hear people use that as an argument for atheism but proving that a particular deity is a prick doesn't mean that deity doesn't exist. If that logic worked, then a Christian could provide examples of all the good things in life as a valid argument for the "god exists" side.

It doesn't really work for either side.

ServantOfTheLamb

Sremmos80
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Why would an agnostic want to play the "prove there is no god" game...?

Why would any one want to play that game? No one ever wins

Why didn't anyone pay attention to me when I stated in the OP that I am not asking for proof. Just evidence. For example, If Santa Clause was real we would see Him at the North Pole. Santa is not there. Nothing at the North Pole implies Santa is there. Therefore it is not probable(not impossible) that a Fat Man in a Red Suit with magical elves and reindeer doesn't live at the north pole. Also since I moved out of my parents house he quit visiting.

Now you should be able to give a similar deduction as to why God is not probable.

edit on 12-4-2014 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

I find it difficult to believe that you can so easily execute that kind of deduction and still find yourself at a loss regarding our skepticism. It's not a big leap from one to the other.

I cannot prove that there is no God(s)
How can a Christian prove beyond a doubt there is no Hera and Zeus
How can you prove there is no yellow alien creature with 30 arms on a planet circling Alpha Centuri?

As an atheist, (agnostic-atheist..or for people who hate adjectives, just an agnostic by your definition...but the reality is agnostic atheist) I simply don't know about the 3 things above (and many other things).
Why would I believe in something that may or may not be. I don't know of any evidence to support or dismiss Pegasus like creatures (although there could be a scientific debate on how it is improbable...weight considerations, wingspan, etc, beside the point) but I therefore won't default to either side of belief nor belief in not...it is not under consideration until supporting evidence becomes to a point where it needs to be considered

Deities, especially the ones spoken in todays religion, show no evidence that would merit consideration for their existence...so, like any other god(s) of past or present, put them right alongside any other odd superstition of the past...elves, fairies, etc.

Now

I would -like- to think there is order in this universe..and do often consider the implications of higher beings interfering and giving a rats arse about us...it is a comforting thought, but I know there is no evidence for such things outside of patchwork personal experiences...its nice to have hope though, but my hope in something does not translate into some universal fact.