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reply to post by MrWendal
Yet no one can show me anywhere where anyone other than Bundy and anywhere other than some UK tabloid rag magazine said there were the presence of snipers at all
I'm happy to read where anyone besides Bundy says that there were snipers there...legitimate sources from non-biased persons who saw snipers BEFORE the militia showed up...
neighbors... anyone in the area...
reply to post by NavyDoc
yeah... he paid that is why he lost his permit to graze on that land a whole 5 years prior to everyone in the county loosing their permits...
have fun supporting the illegality of one man... whats good for the goose is in fact good for the gander right?
If the government is wrong... then by god we should be able to be wrong with out fear too...
lets all be wrong... then we can pretend it makes it right...
reply to post by OpinionatedB
With all respect (because I value you're contributions) there isn't One truth and because of that, we (each person) has to decide what's right and wrong for themselves and take their stands when their defined lines in the sand have been crossed. Some people took a stand here, others will somewhere else at some other time...
reply to post by Kali74
as i understand it, the Bundy family was breaking BLM regulations, not laws. and those regs, supposedly saving environment for the desert tortoise, effectively ended his grazing rights...i.e., even though he paid BLM fees, he could not graze. so he quit paying. his beef was that since 1880 or about, his family had been grazing..and keeping the land in such a way as to allow that. go to google earth, locate bundy ranch, and see...it is surrounded by irrigated patches for cow fodder when the federal land is unproductive.
Yes he broke BLM regs, but the rules were created to boot him from his claim on the land.
AND guess what. Harry Reid and family have an investment with the Chinese to use the land on a solar power station. and a top aid to Reid is Head of BLM.
go to the web site of that hated terrible always wrong conspiracy creep Alex Jones, and read the documents posted by Reid and his associates..they mention Cliven Bundy by name as a problem.
Executive Order 12548 -- Grazing Fees
February 14, 1986
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, and in order to provide for establishment of appropriate fees for the grazing of domestic livestock on public rangelands, it is ordered as follows:
Section 1. Determination of Fees. The Secretaries of Agriculture and the Interior are directed to exercise their authority, to the extent permitted by law under the various statutes they administer, to establish fees for domestic livestock grazing on the public rangelands which annually equals the $1.23 base established by the 1966 Western Livestock Grazing Survey multiplied by the result of the Forage Value Index (computed annually from data supplied by the Statistical Reporting Service) added to the Combined Index (Beef Cattle Price Index minus the Prices Paid Index) and divided by 100; provided, that the annual increase or decrease in such fee for any given year shall be limited to not more than plus or minus 25 percent of the previous year's fee, and provided further, that the fee shall not be less than $1.35 per animal unit month.
Sec. 2. Definitions. As used in this Order, the term:
(a) ``Public rangelands'' has the same meaning as in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978 (Public Law 95 - 514);
(b) ``Forage Value Index'' means the weighted average estimate of the annual rental charge per head per month for pasturing cattle on private rangelands in the 11 Western States (Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, and California) (computed by the Statistical Reporting Service from the June Enumerative Survey) divided by $3.65 and multiplied by 100;
(c) ``Beef Cattle Price Index'' means the weighted average annual selling price for beef cattle (excluding calves) in the 11 Western States (Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Washington, Oregon, and California) for November through October (computed by the Statistical Reporting Service) divided by $22.04 per hundred weight and multiplied by 100; and
(d) ``Prices Paid Index'' means the following selected components from the Statistical Reporting Service's Annual National Index of Prices Paid by Farmers for Goods and Services adjusted by the weights indicated in parentheses to reflect livestock production costs in the Western States: 1. Fuels and Energy (14.5); 2. Farm and Motor Supplies (12.0); 3. Autos and Trucks (4.5); 4. Tractors and Self-Propelled Machinery (4.5); 5. Other Machinery (12.0); 6. Building and Fencing Materials (14.5); 7. Interest (6.0); 8. Farm Wage Rates (14.0); 9. Farm Services (18.0).
Sec. 3. Any and all existing rules, practices, policies, and regulations relating to the administration of the formula for grazing fees in section 6(a) of the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978 shall continue in full force and effect.
Sec. 4. This Order shall be effective immediately.
The White House,
February 14, 1986.
[Filed with the Office of the Federal Register, 10:32 a.m., February 18, 1986]
The FORCE is far too large and obscene for a simple arrest. The liberals ALWAYS want action NOW for their tolerant decrees when what they must do is wait and get them later.Reno played that way, as I recall.
But no, they WANT a fight over nothing it's their BEST type of campaign.Say the citizens shot first and there you go.edit on 12-4-2014 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)