A Military View of the Bundy Ranch Situation: Why Everyone Should Be Worried

reply to post by projectvxn


With the BLM leaving and [surviving] cattle released, many assume, "It's over, the people won!" But it's unlikely the BLM is going to give up past or future grazing fees or that Bundy is going to pay them. It's unlikely the BLM will let Bundy continue grazing cattle without fees and Bundy needs the grazing land. Then there's the big question: Will the feds ignore actions of various militia groups, the Oathkeepers, and others?

From the military view of the thread, what happens next? Do the feds come back in greater force when the supporters leave? Or really go back to the courts? Do they use facial recognition and license plate scanning to target militia members, Oathkeepers, and other supporters? Or write it off as people exercising constitutional rights? I doubt it ends here.

reply to post by ikonoklast


All good questions.

So let me say this. It is not over. This will bleed off into other areas. Right now the federal officials are conducting an after action review. The questions they will ask themselves are as follows:

1 What was done correctly?

2 What was done incorrectly?

3 What specific areas of our operations do we need to improve upon?

4 What assets should we have brought to bear and why?

We do AARs after everything we do. From operations to training. We do it to improve our performance in future training and real world missions.

Likely this AAR will include questions about what should be done about protesters, what should be the initial contact doctrine, what assets to bring to the field, how to engage the media, and what to do when militia show up and how to PREVENT militia from showing up.

Beyond an internal review there is no way of knowing what the next likely steps will be for the BLM or other federal agencies, who are likely reviewing this incident as well.

reply to post by projectvxn


I would say there is a high possibility of a schism in the military itself if it gets real. Everyone is saying the militias and citizens don't stand a chance, which is true, but if enough rogue and courageous generals and military personal decide enough is enough and take sides with the underdogs the outcome could be quite different than Waco or Ruby Ridge.

reply to post by humanityrising


mostly people are saying that because of two things:

firstly: the military has equipment that far outclasses stuff militias have, or a mutiny-rebel group could keep. from a logistical view in any case.

secondly: the american public is part of the first world/a developed country. so unless the conflict were over in say 1-2 years I would think most of the people would prefer tyranny to dying of disease in a cave in the mountains.

Thirdly; whats to stop china or russia taking this as an opportunity to do stuff that they wouldn't ordinarily do?

(Russia might take back alaska for instance)

reply to post by projectvxn


That situation easily couldve turned into a false flag op, but since the militias showed up it caused to much attention and the police aka feds under Harry Reid didnt want an open battlefield that the public already knew was the fault of the Gov not the rancher.
However it set a valid point for the average american: its take united americans to do battle with the feds over civilian rights cus words and courts do zero.

reply to post by humanityrising


Thats gonna end up as what it needs to be: Military and Militia vs Feds and Police. One is waking up to corruption and finally taking a stand in small numbers, whereas the other prefers silence and shoot the *cough* criminal citizen for disobedience. Point Blank: Either this country needs a change of power, or AR2, the police state wont stop till the "big boys(girls)" march in and opt the corrupt out of office, badge, and illegal seating(Administration). Imagine the Generals coming in as a Beret Militia and ousting every congress member and cop that disobeyed the constitution, things would change over night and the civilians would stand at arms ready to salute.

reply to post by projectvxn


As the map clearly shows, the criminal foreign federal government has been ordered to corral its herd of sheeples into the agenda 21 zoning areas which include all large areas that are the most influencial to their brainwashing propaganda. This, in turn forces them to slowly push in the barriers of land masses that are owned by such peoples who live outside that zone of greatest control. And as we have seen, they will use force, or act like it, if necessary. But so will we! Through the powers vested in us by the constitution of The United States Of America We will not be threatened by the bully rich kids down the block who mock us, threaten us, assault, and even kill us for their childish selfish ways. It makes me have hope for America when I see good people standing up against the thugs who want to steal our dreams and take away our rights as American citizens. Keep up the good fight!

projectvxn
reply to post by ikonoklast

 

All good questions.

So let me say this. It is not over. This will bleed off into other areas. Right now the federal officials are conducting an after action review. The questions they will ask themselves are as follows:

1 What was done correctly?

2 What was done incorrectly?

3 What specific areas of our operations do we need to improve upon?

4 What assets should we have brought to bear and why?

We do AARs after everything we do. From operations to training. We do it to improve our performance in future training and real world missions.

Likely this AAR will include questions about what should be done about protesters, what should be the initial contact doctrine, what assets to bring to the field, how to engage the media, and what to do when militia show up and how to PREVENT militia from showing up.

Beyond an internal review there is no way of knowing what the next likely steps will be for the BLM or other federal agencies, who are likely reviewing this incident as well.

Yeah, and the next thing you know, the whole entire US military will be brought to bear down on the next unfortunate cattle rancher who has property they want.

"Gee boss, we didn't have enough assets in the field to intimidate the people enough. Next time, let's sock it to em hard. We need drones, planes, tanks, APC's- and if all else fails, we can always just nuke em."

reply to post by LadySkadi


What got me, was that so many people who I respected and come to really care about, just went off the rails - not caring what was true, believing absolutely anything they read because it was against the one thing they don't trust... the government.

Truth flew out the window .... I saw lies repeated, repeatedly, by people who normally are right there with investigating and finding the truth.

Everyone is missing that piece that was causal to the feds ramping up... that's a very important piece of information and would likely tell the whole story.

Instead of looking for it, everyone is willing - for their own reasons, to help this man break the law. Guess what - dollars to donuts your reasons are far from his reason for wanting people to help him. That is what is saddest of all... seeing people I care about be used by some man for his own gain and not for a righteous cause.

Not for the first time since I have been on ATS - I cried last night.

If people succeed in overthrowing this government - what are they planning on replacing it with when the rule of law means nothing in it? And what, exactly - do people want to come about from this.

It's messed up, that people won't fight the government for a righteous cause, but they will for someone else's gain.

This is my last post that has anything to do with this...

reply to post by OpinionatedB


You cried because people went against the government? Really? Put aside what is right or wrong, you get emotional because of a stand that people make against what they believe is corruption? Really shows where your loyalties lay.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

Yeah, and the next thing you know, the whole entire US military will be brought to bear down on the next unfortunate cattle rancher who has property they want.

Once again, Bundy was the one stealing land: your land.

I want to point out something to those who keep harping on the issue of Mr. Bundy breaking the law and court order this or that. Hitler did everything he did legally! The gestapo did everything they did legally. Legal does not equal moral or right. Legal just means you got a judge who is paid for by the Federal government to side with the Feds.

That land is rich in minerals which the military industrial complex wants for weapons. It's apparently already owned by foreign nationals due to treaties which are illegal on the face of them to turn American parks and land over to countries like China. Apparently, Harry Reid's kid is a lobbyist whose has a 5 billion dollar solar energy development deal going on in that area, and they need the cattle gone, and Mr. Bundy is not bowing down and licking the boots of the American gestapo.

I often hear when discussions about WWII come up, "Why didn't the German people stop Hitler?" Maybe it is because they were programmed to be good law abiding Germans! The law was for Jews to wear little yellow stars. The law was for Jews to turn in their guns. The law was for Jews to move into ghettos. As long as the average German was not harmed they didn't apparently give a damn, and the propaganda they digested daily had them blaming the Jews for all their problems.

So, for all of you who are bemoaning the lack of integrity in American government, the destruction of our freedoms, the nanny state controllers running our lives etc. at what point should some American stand up and say, "I am mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

I think this was a test to see just what American's would do if the right people were called upon to take a stand, and I think the government got same damned good intel of these groups capabilities to muster a reaction force and how they communicate when cell towers go down. This was a test, a dry run, and in some ways we won a victory for freedom and in other ways we lost because now they know what groups to target ahead of a gestapo action.

DJW001
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Yeah, and the next thing you know, the whole entire US military will be brought to bear down on the next unfortunate cattle rancher who has property they want.

Once again, Bundy was the one stealing land: your land.

And if no one is using that land, whats the big deal with some cows eating grass and fertilizing it as they go?

Its not like some insane massive mining project was planned on that land.

If its the USA's land and hes an American, isnt it sort of his anyway?

Biigs

DJW001
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Yeah, and the next thing you know, the whole entire US military will be brought to bear down on the next unfortunate cattle rancher who has property they want.

Once again, Bundy was the one stealing land: your land.

And if no one is using that land, whats the big deal with some cows eating grass and fertilizing it as they go?

Its not like some insane massive mining project was planned on that land.

If its the USA's land and hes an American, isnt it sort of his anyway?

He had a chance to make that case in court. That is how constitutional government works.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


You speak of the "rule of law" as if our government is there for the American people and not big multi-national corporations and central banks! I am shocked that you cannot understand that this was a touchstone moment and many Americans were on the verge of revolting despite all the propaganda to subdue their natural instincts to end this legal injustice. Bundy ranch is a symptom of a cancerous growth destroying the America I love and miss so very much.

You cried last night for what you see as a lack of investigation from those you respect? I have cried for decades over the loss of basic freedoms and wondering what the hell it's going to take for the silent majority to finally say enough is enough. We have a communist muslim running our country. We have an attorney general refusing to uphold our laws to protect our borders! We have the government forcing us to buy a product (medical insurance) that we either don't want or cannot afford, and if we don't comply they will take our homes and withhold our tax refunds.

The American government is run by crooks who exempt themselves from the very laws they force upon us. They exempt unions from the same laws they force on us. Legal does not equal moral or just, it just means you control the judge. Our legal system is broke, jobs are gone, and families are suffering. American's have had enough of this crap!

reply to post by sosobad


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Man that was illegally camping is shot dead "because he had a knife" from 20 feet away

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Conflicting reports have emerged between officers and staff, with the employees of the home reporting that they asked officers not to harm him and requested to intervene.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

New Mexico cops, doctors force man to undergo 7-hour ordeal involving rectal probes after traffic stop


None of you were protesting in Albuquerque NM when those citizens protested abuse of police authority... None of you were protesting ANY of these above righteous causes.

Instead... you all are here to make sure some rich cattle rancher can get richer by not having to own, rent, or maintain the majority of the land upon which he raises the cattle which makes his income.

Greed is the only thing your willing to fight for. And your government is supposed to be better than the one we have? HOW?

Plus... its not people I don't know willing to fight for one man's greed instead of another man's right not to be abused... it's people I respected. That is what bothers me...

The People won... the Feds have pulled back:

Rancher Wins

kudos for all of the People who supported him

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Those incidents were known about AFTER they happened and were over. This was an ongoing situation, and the people who responded did so to stop the action taking place. It does not appear you are happy with anyone standing up to the government that is out of control and ignoring the constitution whenever it suits them as they wheel and deal behind the scenes. You sound like you hate people of wealth. Who the hell do you think hires other people? When was the last time you got a job from someone on welfare? Could it be that Bundy is in a family business that goes back generations? That they pay for people to help them ranch?

So, let me get this straight. You want us to march on police headquarters in said jurisdictions where they cops have murdered citizens, and do what exactly? Shall we take guns and ammo, build barricades around city hall, jails, sheriffs and police stations and demand they submit to us? How well do you think that will turn out? You don't seem to want us to take a stand in the Bundy case and yet bemoan us doing nothing in these incidents that were over and done with before the stories came out! So, you do want us to revolt, but just not in protecting a rancher. Ok, I understand now... not really, but I see you.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Those incidents were known about AFTER they happened and were over.

There is little evidence to support any of what is posted on ATS, just opinions, rants, beliefs and political nonsense. Linking to another ATS thread where (again) there is no evidence, just opinions and rants, is not evidence of anything.

A blog is not evidence, a YouTube rant is not evidence, a political opinion is not evidence, religious belief is not evidence, saying "I have a bad feeling..." is not evidence, someone saying they know a "military source" does not make it true...

When will people here learn? There are certain things you need to be able to believe something as actual fact. Reason and evidence are needed, but are clearly lacking from the vast majority of opinions on these discussions.

OpinionatedB
reply to post by projectvxn

 

How do we know this really... are we taking the word of a man who is breaking the law...?

I don't know who escalated what first! But i'm not sure I can trust this man Bundy with the truth.

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you, but this man and his family have been using the land for long before the federal government was involved.

Something similar happened to a family that owned and operated an oyster farm in the Bay on the West Coast. They went out there a long time before the feds were involved. They did all the hard work to set up that farm and they made it successful. Because the area in and around their farm was so great, the feds later dropped a marine sanctuary on top of it. No worries, right? They told the family they would just lease their own land back to them so they could continue to operate their farm.

That worked out swell ... right up until it didn't. This administration was the one who decided that the Marine Sanctuary was more important and refused to renew the lease. So, the people who were there first? Yep. Gone.

In Nevada, the feds now own 84% of the land. How much of the rest do they need to own? Without access to the extra range, ranchers can't stay in business because it takes lots of land for even a small cattle operation in the West. The government is raising this stink over a turtle, grazing rights aside. This is a turtle that is so common in this part of its range, that they are euthanizing it even thought it is endangered in other parts of its range.

There comes a point at which laws are abusive as are the people who make and enforce them. Bundy's cows are not the problem. They've been using that land since the late 1800s. If they were destroying habitat or killing turtles, those things would have happened already. It comes down to the government deciding that turtles and their own powers are more important than the very real needs of the people to make a living.