Muslim Extremists Preach Violence in Europe

O(h, yeah. We barely woke up long enough to stall the attempted take-over by the liberal-elitist. You think we're going to stay awake long enough to help Europe? LOL! Get real!

Good night.

This thread is too funny. You clearly know almost nothing about 'Europe'.

I suggest a visit to the doctors and an adjustment to your dosage!

Muslims remain a tiny minority in all European countries.
Not one tiny bit of Europe is going to be 'taken over' by anybody and you'll be waiting a hell of a long time for a Vatican move.

Jayzuss you guys have some really strange fantasies!

Originally posted by paperclip
Europeans picked on minorities in the past, on Jews more precisely, and that is bad. Very bad.

Such generalising only creates confusion and ignorance, Europeans didn't do anything, be more specific.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Muslims remain a tiny minority in all European countries.

Actually you are not entirely right there.
The group of muslims in Europe is growing rapidly in several countries, and several studies allready showed that Europe will probably be 99% muslims in 20X0.

In the netherlands the group of muslims grew in the last few years, to over a million people today.
Realizing that there are only 16 million people in the netherlands, it does start to make sense to look at what is the reason for this growth.

Originally posted by Jakko
Actually you are not entirely right there.
The group of muslims in Europe is growing rapidly in several countries, and several studies allready showed that Europe will probably be 99% muslims in 20X0.

haha, will never happen, though I dont mind muslims, thats a really redicoulus statement..please show those studies?
www.christianscience.com... ? www.jesusfreaks.com... ?

Originally posted by Jakko
Actually you are not entirely right there.

- No, sorry but I am entirely right there.
Muslims are and will remain a tiny minority of the population of Europe in any foreseeable and realistic possible future.

In any event what do you mean by 'Muslims'?
Are you trying to say all - or most - European Muslims (like you imagine all Muslims generally?) are scary fundamentalist fanatics just itching to suicide bomb us all out of existance?!

Ridiculous.

The group of muslims in Europe is growing rapidly in several countries,

- These so-called 'studies' invariably extrapolate population growth within a sub-group on the basis of that groups' high current or initial 'peak' rate of increase.

This is absurd.

It would be just as wrong to base the growth of 'ethnic' European populations always on the basis of the post-war 'baby boom' peak.

and several studies allready showed that Europe will probably be 99% muslims in 20X0

- This is purely guessing games and number-play.
You cannot assume or judge in the manner those (*ahem* did someone say 'agenda!? *cough*) who draw such idiotic conclusions do.

Yeah, "20X0" indeed.....note the "X".

Some fool recently wrote and published a book on 'an Islamic Europe by 2050!'.
This is as laughable as that stupidity....but no doubt the unthinking and gullible will give it credability, draw all sorts of foolish conclusions and be afraid because of such arrant nonsense.

In the netherlands the group of muslims grew in the last few years, to over a million people today.
Realizing that there are only 16 million people in the netherlands, it does start to make sense to look at what is the reason for this growth.

- Are you really sure you want to inflating this just over 6% into such a sweeping general 'worry'?!

Again, an occassional spurt in population numbers does not a majority any time soon make. Neither are 'they' a scary homogenous gang of murderous fanatics.
Come on, wise up.

Sorry but this is still all risible garbage.

Well besides not being pleased by the immature way you attempt to say you do not agree with me, I do not think you know anything about my country to begin with.
I am not sure (as I said) wether this is the case in every country, but in our country, the group of muslims did get bigger rapidly in the last few years.

Now what exactly is wrong about this, or why would I have to be a christian to make such statements?
I am not a racist, neither afraid of any group or country, but I do have eyes in my head and I see what is the case in my country.

It saddens me to see that 5 seconds on google allows me to find the info I need to support my argument.
You obviously took no time at all to look for facts.

www.twq.com...

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
In any event what do you mean by 'Muslims'?
Are you trying to say all - or most - European Muslims (like you imagine all Muslims generally?) are scary fundamentalist fanatics just itching to suicide bomb us all out of existance?!

Are you off your meds or something?
On ATS we tend to respond to what other people did say, not to what they didn't say.
With muslims I mean muslims, you can look up the meaning of the word muslim if you do not get it.

[edit on 28-11-2004 by Jakko]

Jakko calm yourself down, ok?

I have no doubt you can find all sorts of opinion on the net to back this idea.....along with a host of selective data.
Cos like it's not like everything is true on the net, is it?

I am also putting it quite reasonably to you that this is a highly selective manner of examining the facts.

It remains the case that depending on which point in very recent European history one can either project a reducing aging population (for instance using birth and death rates right now) or a growing young one (birth and death rates only 30yrs back).

Things keep changing.

So what if a particular ethnic group grows quickly in one short period?
Over the course of years this tends to mean much less than it might in isolation or by simply concentrating on a few years.

As I said you have referred to a group who are now just over 6% of Holland's population, and what?

They are not becoming the majority in Holland (or anywhere else in Europe) which was what this thread was originally all about.

Eurabia?

Ridiculous.

.....and I'm still interested in what is supposed to be so threatening, scary or so worrying about European Muslims (and their supposedly rising numbers) and why they are being discussed as if they are a homogeneous grouping.

Originally posted by Jakko
The group of muslims in Europe is growing rapidly in several countries, and several studies allready showed that Europe will probably be 99% muslims in 20X0.

So Europe will be 99% Muslim in the next 85 years!!!!

Mmmmm do you believe in fairies too, and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or are you just mentally misunderstood??????
Wake up mate.

Originally posted by The Teller

Originally posted by Jakko
The group of muslims in Europe is growing rapidly in several countries, and several studies allready showed that Europe will probably be 99% muslims in 20X0.

So Europe will be 99% Muslim in the next 85 years!!!!

Mmmmm do you believe in fairies too, and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow or are you just mentally misunderstood??????
Wake up mate.

- Um yeah The Teller!

What the hell was I doing taking this seriously and being civil to the person for when they are posting such laughable nonsense!

Did you know that - because they have one of the lowest birth rates in the developed world - if the current birth-rate is projected forward there will be no ethnic Japanese people.....by the year 3000!

So you believe it not to be a threat to Europe, well lets take a look then shall we?

Muslim Extremists Preach Violence in Europe

LONDON � He's called Sheik Terra.

With a Koran in one hand and pistol in the other, the British rapper calls for the murder of non-Muslims, including several world leaders, on a videotape.

The video is well known in one London mosque, whose imam � or leader � is accused of setting up a terrorist training camp in Oregon and whose followers don't like Western media.

Abu Hamza (search), who lost two hands and an eye in Afghanistan, is in jail now but other extremists from among Britain's two million Muslims continue to preach violence, veiling the message to take advantage of some of Europe's most liberal freedom-of-speech laws.

"We cannot tolerate a crocodile in our bedroom," said Sheik Omar Bakri. "U.S. forces in Muslim countries are crocodiles in our bedrooms. So we are not going to give them ice cream."

Muslim Extremists Preach Violence in Europe

Sheik Tarra, maybe a threat, so he should be locked up or eliminated from society for all i care.

But that does still will not justify an ethnic cleansing of mass muslims all over Europe?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

I have no doubt you can find all sorts of opinion on the net to back this idea.....along with a host of selective data.
Cos like it's not like everything is true on the net, is it?

Look at the link sminkey, it's not selective data, it's just data.

I am also putting it quite reasonably to you that this is a highly selective manner of examining the facts.

Not really. It's a matter of statistics and math. If trend X not only continues, but also increases, than in 20Y0 there will be result Z.

It remains the case that depending on which point in very recent European history one can either project a reducing aging population (for instance using birth and death rates right now) or a growing young one (birth and death rates only 30yrs back).

Things keep changing.

Correct. The growth of the muslim population however is undeniable, no matter in what timeframe you look at it.

So what if a particular ethnic group grows quickly in one short period?
Over the course of years this tends to mean much less than it might in isolation or by simply concentrating on a few years.

The conclusions of research in this area do not answer the "so what" , they only state that a growing muslim population is reality in the netherlands. (and I suspect in more countries in Europe)

As I said you have referred to a group who are now just over 6% of Holland's population, and what?

They are not becoming the majority in Holland (or anywhere else in Europe) which was what this thread was originally all about.

In 2050 6% will be increased to 20%
This kind of growth is (currently) partly exponential, so the exponential math results in quite a high estimate for the end of this age.

.....and I'm still interested in what is supposed to be so threatening, scary or so worrying about European Muslims (and their supposedly rising numbers) and why they are being discussed as if they are a homogeneous grouping.

Those are your words. I did not give any verdict towards wether this is a good or a bad development.
I do know that countries with an Islamic regime are not the kind of countries I would want to live in, but besides this, I am not desperate to generalize all muslims because of the recent murder of Theo van Gogh in my country, carried out my an Islamic extremist because Theo insulted the Koran.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by curme
It never ceases to amaze me how scared white people are of brown people. ....

It never ceases to amaze that you will try and discredit someone and at the same time not even touch on the topic.

There is nothing about this that is racial. Did you miss the hate speech of the "Brown" people? There was nothing about this that referred to color, nothing had a thing to do with skin tone.

But, you already knew this, didn't you?

Smoke, that's all your post was, a lot of smoke, designed to confuse the battlefield.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by Thomas Crowne]

Firstly europe will NOT be muslim in whenever... because most of us are shaking off our christian superstitions, so we probably won't start believing muslim mumbo jumbo instead.

This question of religion came up recently with regard to the new EU constitution, and with Turkey trying to join. We decided to go down the secular path (thank goodness) for fear of creating exclusive little christians club.

I just wish those american missionaries to come over here... let me at the little religious so and sos... ]]

[edit on 29/11/2004 by Corinthas]

take it from me, i live i a neighbourhood that's about 80% muslim (about 12 mosques and 1 church in a 1 km radius) and there is no reason to be afraid AT ALL... first of all, muslims are not a homogenous group. E.g. moroccans tend not to blend with turkish, they have their own mosques & meeting places, same for black muslims & asian muslims. Secondly, what they preach is not a secret, imams here are more than willing to give their texts to the media so people know what is being said inthere (btw, preaching is not in arab but in the local language, which is dutch). And let me remind you of a very important fact, that is was the european gouverments that brought these muslims here for cheap labour. In fact, their idea was to send them back when the job was done, not realizing that in no time, the second & third generation would be here, speaking our language, wearing the same clothes as we do, with no significant links to their country of origin whatsoever... So people saying that we should be very afraid of them & start sending missionaries to convert these poor people need a serious reality check. Maybe talk to a muslim? or is that too far fetched... Extremists exist everywhere and it is the job of a civilized society to handle this before it gets out of hand. But preaching fear (& hate as a result) won't get anyone anywhere. People here still remember WW2, how a (willfullyt created) climate of fear gets that far out of hand that a genocide happens...

Originally posted by edsinger
So you believe it not to be a threat to Europe, well lets take a look then shall we?

- Ed mate I think there are all sorts of 'threats' to us all.

But, the actual level of daily 'risk' we all face is quite another matter.

Here in Europe we have had all sorts of terrorism over the decades post-WW2.

In the UK (especially living in Northern Ireland, but it is also true of the major cities in England) the actual daily risk of death or injury was far higher due to our 'Irish troubles' than anything connected to 'Islamic fanatics'.

Originally posted by Jakko

Look at the link sminkey, it's not selective data, it's just data.

- It's not the data itself that bothers me Jakko, it's the manner in which it is being used.

Not really. It's a matter of statistics and math. If trend X not only continues, but also increases, than in 20Y0 there will be result Z.

- Well exactly.
With blind cold math any old theory can be forwarded with little regard to the fact it is all based upon 'ifs, buts and maybes' no matter how improbable.

There is not one ethnic group that has come to Europe that has maintained it's initial ('traditional'?) reproductive rate.....all find the cost of living limits their numbers just like the rest of us, ultimately.

Correct. The growth of the muslim population however is undeniable, no matter in what timeframe you look at it.

- I'm not denying anything.
I am saying that if you really are worried about this you actually have little or nothing to actually worry about.
The growth rate will moderate and not be sustained at a high level......it's happened elsewhere, why should they be any different?

The conclusions of research in this area do not answer the "so what" , they only state that a growing muslim population is reality in the netherlands. (and I suspect in more countries in Europe)

- Am I denying a 'growing Muslim population in the Netherlands' or Europe as a whole for that matter?

No.

But I am calling as risible and ludicrous the notion that Europe's Muslim population is "growing rapidly in several countries, and several studies allready showed that Europe will probably be 99% muslims in 20X0" which was your earlier posting.

In 2050 6% will be increased to 20%
This kind of growth is (currently) partly exponential, so the exponential math results in quite a high estimate for the end of this age.

- Even this 20% assumes an unchanging level of reproduction.
You cannot make those assumptions and present them as absolute fact.

Those are your words. I did not give any verdict towards wether this is a good or a bad development.

- Your implications are pretty clear IMHO.

I do know that countries with an Islamic regime are not the kind of countries I would want to live in, but besides this, I am not desperate to generalize all muslims because of the recent murder of Theo van Gogh in my country, carried out my an Islamic extremist because Theo insulted the Koran.

- I don't find any violent fundamentalist nutters attractive no matter what label they give themselves.

I certainly don't label all Irish people a 'worry' or 'concern' of any sort just because of the 3500+ people killed in the last 30yrs+ of Irish political troubles we have had in the 'British Isles'.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet. It would be an interesting topic to search for... I havent got time this morning to do the research but will be back on later.

The growing muslim population in the Netherlands is threating the liberal freedoms they held so proudly for years!

Why did all these muslims move to the Netherlands? They knew how... free... the people were there yet they moved there anyways. Now they are slowly becoming a majority there and trying to change the Netherlands to better suit their muslim ideals.

There s quite a struggle going on in the Netherlands atm, it may not be the great... vacation spot... it once was.

And for Gods sake I'm not a racist nor do I believe all muslims to be violent killing machines... so don't dunk my face in this mud pit of name calling some of you are trying to start here.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by LostSailor]