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Papyrus mentions Jesus wife authentic?

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posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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Evening fellow seekers of history, an interesting article I read today surrounding the authenticity of the papyrus that mentions Jesus wife which in many threads (last year?) perhaps claimed to be fake here is one of many www.abovetopsecret.com...


I did do a search to see if this had been posted, though I couldn't find anything this is ATS and I believe all news has already been posted ^^ With that being said..




Now I am generally on the fence when it comes to Biblical scripture but I have tried to take the stance that the Bible and other religious scriptures do hold some merit in History. Too many archaeological sites which confirm the existence at least of biblical cities/populaces, such as Jesus, our so called savoir. Now the Vatican dismissed this papyrus when it was brought into light, now recent tests conducted by scientist have concluded the papyrus could infact be 'genuine' dating from around 700 - 800 AD.

Now to me that is not proof of Jesus/Jesus having a wife. Though I read this could well be a copy of an original, I know original excuse you may think but what do your keen minds have to say here?

Heres a quote from the first paragraph


In September, 2012, a faded fragment of papyrus, which has controversially come to be known as 'The Gospel of Jesus’s Wife', made international headlines when it was unveilled by Harvard Divinity School historian Karen L. King. The announcement, unsurprisingly, was met with both anger and elation, as well as a great deal of skepticism as it contained a phrase never seen before in any other scripture: "Jesus said to them, my wife….", and "she will be able to be my disciple", a phrase that stirred debate over whether women should be allowed to be priests. An editorial in the Vatican’s newspaper declared that the papyrus was a fake, as did a number of other scholars. However, the fragment has now been thoroughly tested by scientists who conclude, in a report published in the Harvard Theological Review, that the ink (actually pigment) and papyrus have ancient origins, and the fragment is not, therefore, a modern forgery.


Article I read

Harvard Theological Review


As always stay frosty ATS

- Sparta
edit on 10-4-2014 by Sparta because: sneaky typo




posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by Sparta
 


I saw this article earlier and am glad that you posted it here.

This is very interesting. I think many of us already knew that Jesus was married, but it didn't fit with the narrative that was being being told by the Council of Nicaea when modern Christian doctrine, and later the bible, were being put together.

This is a great find. I love it when we can piece together the past with solid evidence.
edit on 2014/4/10 by Metallicus because: sp



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by Metallicus
 

Thanks bud.

Yeah I tend to agree with you there, the pagen books such as book of Mary herself and Judas are really interesting.

When the Bible was being constructed in that Roman court they set forward very strict guidelines to keep in check by the look of it. Wouldn't want to contradict their own b/s I imagine.



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Metallicus
 


Not just the Council of Nicaea, but with Peter's concepts of a patriarchal religion. From the inception of Jesus' apostles, Peter saw no place for women, as common for Judaic law in that period.



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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Through-out the new testament Mary is seen in the presence of Jesus, and I'm not talking about his mother either. She was there at his death when almost everyone else in his posse' did the Harold Holt.

After getting kicked out of the garden, God commands the humans to procreate.

Later, it is interpreted that God has become flesh to "dwell amongst us", to experience first hand what being human is all about, and to save the sinners etc etc

You do the math..........



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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HAHAHA this is great.

Maybe those blind followers of the church will finally start thinking about how easy it is to add and omit things from a "sacred" book. Im just kidding though they of course will call it Satan the great deceivers work and ignore it. God forbid people of the church realize sex is natural and not sinful. They need people feeling nice and filthy to keep them coming back.



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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Jesus followed Jewish law. By law he would not have been called Rabbi (as he was) unless he in fact followed law and married by the age of 30.
Also the wedding mentioned said that Mary asked Jesus to deal with the wine as they were out, clearly the wedding was held for a family member or they would not be the ones providing the wine at that wedding.



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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......and her name was Wanda.



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 10:32 PM
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I also think Jesus was probably married because that was the law if you were a rabbi.

And because of the now established age of the papyrus, I too would think it to be a copy of a much older text leading back to Jesus' time.

If earlier copies were ever found by the Church of Rome, I don't doubt for a moment that they would have been suppressed.

A married Jesus would really call into question the validity of the whole Pauline Doctrine, as well as Paul's claim that Jesus was "a high priest of the Melchizedik", i.e. part of the Essenes who followed the doctrine of celibacy.

A married Jesus would not only call into question the doctrine of celibacy for the Catholic priesthood, a married Jesus would essentially call into question every New Testament book ever attributed to Paul.

That's huge when you think about it…



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 10:41 PM
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Thousands of scrolls, codices, fragments make no mention of Jesus' wife and this one does. The coherent christology contained in the old and new testaments also favour Jesus not having a wife. Tons of scientific research done to establish the authenticity of the scriptures indicate that the Bible is a genuine record of the coming of the messiah. It would take more than one fragment of an old text to make me think otherwise... unless of course I already had a



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by Sparta
 


I am not familiar with the text but can tell you the indicated period was full of sophist cult's, now what is sofism, sofia is wisdom so if that the name given it would indicate that this was one of a number of esoteric gnostic texts which were not meant to litteraly mean a woman but wisdom.
Even if the lord did marry what bearing would that have on any of us but remember his word's, "I am the way and the life and the resurrection" and "In the resurrection you shall neither be taken nor given in marriage for there is no difference between a man and a woman, you shall have new body's like the angels', celestial/spiritual/heavenly body's".
I also (I am part jewish so definitely not anti semitic) would like to point out that Dan Brown whom inspired so many of you down this path with his fictional novel was on a non christian bachground (SAY NO MORE) and admitted on one occasion that he had made it up.
You know what you people are doing is the same as numerology, looking for patterns that are not there but appear to be so.
You also seem to think everything is a bunch of power mad italian cardinal's well sorry the catholic church is not the oldest but the Syriac Orthodox church which is a non nicean church and as independant of constantine is far older, indeed it stems from jewish christians of the first century and they still hold there catachysm (Mass) in Arimaic the language spoken at the time of christ even by the jew's and definitely by christ though they also spoke hebrew in the synagogue.
The Syrian orthodox church is the church of the other apostles and though they suffered a schism a few hundred years ago part is still traditional, a part now under threat of extinction at the hands of extremist muslims and western speculators.
Among Texts they do not have which were of course writen later as part of Gnostic and Sophist cult's hundreds of years after the time of christ are the following, The supposed and blasphemous gospel of Juda iscariot, The supposed and blasphemous gospel of Mary Magdelain (though she was an apostle she was most definitely not married to the lord) and of course this text you yourself point out is from the 600's to the 700's with is of course contiguous to the founding of islam and may even not have a christian origin.



posted on Apr, 10 2014 @ 11:53 PM
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Tons of scientific research done to establish the authenticity of the scriptures indicate that the Bible is a genuine record of the coming of the messiah


What?! Science? The only thing science proves about the bible is that cities mentioned in it did exist, as if that's surprising.



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 12:11 AM
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Even if not a modern forgery, the exact dating will be very important. I didn't see if an accurate date has been issued, but in my opinion it is more likely to be accurate if it was written around the time Jesus was alive. The later the documents dealing with religion, the more potential for later additions. I too believe the Bible holds much historical information, and as you said, there have been multiple instances of the Bible being confirmed by historians and archaeologists in modern times.

IF Jesus had a wife, this makes no difference from a religious point of view. It does nothing to affect the possibility of him being the Messiah. It is simply interesting, and although it has some important historical value, I do not see it having much impact or changing anything. I think that other statements from Jesus sufficiently answer the question regarding whether women should be allowed to be priests, and I believe that He thought there was nothing wrong with it. This is in keeping with his entire message in my opinion, although it is quite obvious that He had to tailor His teachings to the times in which He was living, at least where less important aspects were concerned.

So anyway, I am curious regarding when this document was written, if it is not a forgery. Subsequent analysis should be done to confirm what the original researchers concluded as well, just to lay to rest the possibility of an error having been made. I wonder how many other potentially important ancient documents are out there, just waiting to be found? Perhaps in the caves surrounding where the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, or perhaps in other places...



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 12:32 AM
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Whats wrong here is the fact that there exists a piece of papyrus 1300 years old that says Jesus was married. Why would someone go to all the bother to lie about something so simple such as Jesus being hitched nearly a mileniium and a half ago? They wouldn't, would they, as it serves no purpose.

The problem this piece of papyrus causes, is the fact that it destroys one of the very foundations of the church as we know it.

If the church accept it as genuine, then for centuries the church has lied to the world. If they've lied about this, then the probability is, they've lied about everything else as well.

The image of the magdalene as a repentent trollop would have to go. The church woud have to recall all of the copies of the bibe ever sold and bring out a new edition !! Personally i think it's a business decision not a religious one.

The church has always denied that women have had a place in their ranks from the begining.

The catacombs of priscilla show women as preists..And the vatican showed them to the world?? So whats wrong with Mary ??Catacombs of Priscilla



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by andy1972
 


It is not a lie it is gnosticism, Christ was married to wisdom or he was the word, I wont get too deep into it but I would suggest looking up Sophism in the first millenium and Gnosticism in the first millenium also.
Sophia is greek for wisdom, Gnosis is greek for knowledge and most Gnostic texts were written in greek except for large number of 5th century egyptian texts and the difference between coptism and other christian sects in enormous, they for instance regard Osiris and Isis as saints and so a lot of ancient pre christian mysticism was buried within then almost totally purged in later centurys from there church.
The Nag Hamadi fragments are far more interesting than this much later Sophist Gnostic fragment which is being read and interpreted despite being only fragmentary and so is being represented out of context.
There was a struggle between Gnostic (Sophist) christians whom thought that everything was hidden meanings to be explored and found (so wrote there own texts based on what they believed they had found) and normal traditional christians.
It would not have been unusual and indeed perfectly normal for a jewish man in his twentys and thirtys to be married and christ did say leave your family and friends and come follow me but I Personally do not believe he was married.

Different storys about christ held by the copts include while he was in egypt he took some clay and fashioned two doves which he breathed life into and set free as a small child, we still have the passage that the gods of egypt bowed before him (like the ark of the covenant and Dagon whose alter fell over) the egyptian idols must have fallen over.

Faith is a personal matter but there will always be those whom seek to destroy the faith of others either out of spite or self righteous belief that they and only they are correct or out of misguided well intentions attempts to educate.

It was christ whom said "The Truth will set you free".
edit on 11-4-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 12:47 AM
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Jesus wasn't married.

why would He get married?

did the romans kill His whole family, too?

seems they left His mom alone.

soooooooo???



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 01:16 AM
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tsingtao
Jesus wasn't married.

why would He get married?

did the romans kill His whole family, too?

seems they left His mom alone.

soooooooo???




Maybe they fled to France, where there was a jewish 'kingdom', Septimania.



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 01:18 AM
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LABTECH767
reply to post by andy1972
 


It is not a lie it is gnosticism.

edit on 11-4-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)


Gnocism..yeah..Jesus 'burnt his food in public' so he became very unpopular. Doesn't change the fact he was married. The bibles just full of lies.



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 01:24 AM
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The bible is and always will be mans version of religion after all it is called the king James version. It is not gods word it is carefully chosen chapters that king James wanted to control the masses.



posted on Apr, 11 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by Cinrad
 






Thousands of scrolls, codices, fragments make no mention of Jesus' wife and this one does. The coherent christology contained in the old and new testaments also favour Jesus not having a wife. Tons of scientific research done to establish the authenticity of the scriptures indicate that the Bible is a genuine record of the coming of the messiah. It would take more than one fragment of an old text to make me think otherwise... unless of course I already had a


I was fortunate when in 1989, studying Theology, to have and take the opportunity to look and even read, at that time, was the oldest known Holy Bible.
It had mention of this as well as quite a few mentions of Jesus's brattiness, how he'd been mean to his Mother, a trickster on his older brothers, how he thought his twin brother witless, no mention of Joseph except as master carpenter and partner of orgies, his sisters MADE to be his Priestesses, him seeking out a prostitute who he later married, lived and procreated with her for a few years around a region of France after his twin brother took his place on the cross, him and wife Mary going back, ' home, ' while near the end of her pregnancy, him being a drunken gambler, the Romans once again murdering him, his wife and infant son.

Think about it, either version, the Romans MURDERED Jesus Christ. THEN have nerve to become CHRISTIANS, forming armies of Knights Templars, basically till the World became under certain Roman law. Hence the ONLY people to take over the World in the sneakiest most successful way ever. CHRISTIANITY.

Did Romans let their wives do or be anything other than human chattel? Respected? No.

So why would the Vatican ever release any other scriptures other than those sharing the wanted information.

No. I can't prove this to you. Very few ever had the privilege of seeing the oldest known Bibles, nor can I say why.




BTW: S&F Spsrta





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