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not sure why my post above was stomped yet
( no problem mods..im not arguing...)
Anyhow it described bundy's son's arrest while peacefully demonstrating the rustling of their cattle and the infringement of their rights to protest peacefully....
it had statements to that effect from several people on both sides...but the fed side seems to be that the nail that sticks up is sure to be hammered down...
in an interview on the Alex Jones show earlier today the elder Bundy was saying they are the last of a bunch of ranchers being thusly treated, and they were saying that the BLM has killed a lot of turtles on that land...
He states that they did have grazing rights, and that the BLM are smashing up hundred year old wells, and that they had killed some cattle, and this is why they were bringing in back hoes - to bury them in mass graves.
Bundy was saying that the had "beneficial use rights" to that land.
Beneficial use is a legal term describing a person's right to enjoy the benefits of specific property, especially a view or access to light, air, or water, even though title to that property is held by another person.  This may also be termed "beneficial enjoyment". Black's Law Dictionary (2nd Pocket ed. 2001 pg. 236.
Compare this with a "beneficial interest", where a beneficiary has an interest in a thing ("res" Res (disambiguation)) (such as a trust or estate) but does not own the underlying property. Black's Law Dictionary (2nd Pocket ed. 2001 pg. 64. This usually entitles the beneficiary to some of the income from the underlying property.
Also, compare this to beneficial owner where specific property rights ("use and title") in equity belong to a person even though legal title of the property belongs to another person. Black's Law Dictionary (2nd Pocket ed. 2001 pg.
Did you read what you posted from wiki? No where in it does it say that beneficial use includes letting cattle graze on it. Only light, air, or water grass isn't covered. You are only allowed to walk on the land and if there is water to drink from it that is all.edit on 10-4-2014 by buster2010 because: (no reason given)
The fight involves a 600,000-acre area under BLM control called Gold Butte, near the Utah border. The vast and rugged land is the habitat of the protected desert tortoise, and ranchers whose cattloe graze there must pay fees. Bundy, a descendant of Mormons who settled in Bunkerville more than 140 years ago, claims an inherent right to graze the area and casts the conflict as a states' rights issue. He said he doesn't recognize federal authority on land that he insists belongs to Nevada.
““This is a lot bigger deal than just my cows,” Bundy told FoxNews.com. “It’s a statement for freedom and liberty and the Constitution.”
No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans.”
- Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval
Both Gov. Brian Sandoval and Sen. Dean Heller have condemned the BLS for what they characterize as heavy-handed actions involving Bundy and other Silver State residents.
So from what I have read from this thread and other sources.
The Turtles eat cow poop and derive their moisture from said poop.. The whole turtle thing is just a touchy feelie feel good cover story...
The BLM was using the backhoe and dump truck to destroy water tanks and piping. Water is a big deal in a desert.
The land is/has been leased for oil exploration (should have not interfered with the cattle operation most cattle do not like loud drilling rigs and trucks going to and fro to a rig IMO)..
Rancher stopped paying the amount the Gov says he is to pay for access
Many people in that region are already pissed at the government for various reasons so IMO they did not need much of a cause to latch onto. One article I read said 25 ranchers (some say 53) had been put out of business due to BLM/government regs..?
BLM is separating (according to the rancher's son) caves from their birth mothers.. It has been 90f so the caves without mom's milk will only last about a day... Even running the cows via ATVs or helicopters for extended times in that heat will kill many.
Right or wrong the militias may get in an armed conflict with BLM and other federal agencies.. Presently mostly talk and shoving and let us hope it stays that way.. However, no matter what side you are on, a fact of life is, power does come from the barrel of a gun/taser/brute force after all the shouting and paperwork has been exhausted.
Did I miss anything?
The ski industry and western ranchers have found something in common. The federal government through the United States Forest Service wants both their water. Last year, when the Forest Service issued new rules demanding ski resorts operating on forest permits hand over part or all of their water to the United States or risk losing their permits, the resorts cried foul – and sued!
Ownership of water originating on federal lands has been in a long running battle and the catalyst for government claims and lawsuits across the West. Livestock producers have been embroiled in philosophical and legal battles for generations. Grazing and the ability to put historic livestock water rights to beneficial use are tied directly to access and the grazing permits issued by the federal government agencies.
However, according to Nevada Federal District Court Judge Robert C. Jones, anybody who is of school age or older knows “the history of the Forest Service in seeking reductions in AUMs (Animal Unit Months) and even elimination of cattle grazing during the last four decades.”
Bundy is and has for all intents and purposes been living on foreclosed land.
well, looks like my guess about fracking was correct
and here are the patriots and oath keepers...and a cattle call
and about my use of the word totalitarian
the fracking makes this a corporate fascist issue which is considered rightwing totalitarianismand
the bit about the turtles is of course a lieedit on Thupm4b20144America/Chicago33 by Danbones because: (no reason given)
Until 1934, disagreements over the land were not adjudicated. The “Taylor Grazing Act,” signed by President Franklin Roosevelt, set up districts for grazing on public land, and issued permits to ranchers for a more orderly process.
However, those permits for the majority of Clark County—including the permit for the Bundy Ranch—were transferred in 1998 to the Habitat Conservation Plan to protect the desert tortoise.
The tortoise is protected under the Endangered Species Act. However, Goicoechea says they don’t need any protecting, citing a recently passed Nevada regulation that imposed a one tortoise limit per person to “reduce the overbreeding and proliferation of unwanted pet desert tortoises.”
“People will get two or three of ‘em and all of a sudden they come home one night and you’ve got 15 of ‘em,” Goicoechea said. “I guess they’re diggy little boogers, they go under sidewalks and patios. So tortoises were causing damage in their neighbors’ yards.”
“We’re talking about an endangered species that in fact went out there and removed all these people off the public lands under the intent of protecting that desert tortoise,” he said.
“They have adapted, and they’re doing very well.”
The Fish and Wildlife Service lists the species as “threatened.”
I do agree with you though on the point of being idiotic for a person to post that on youtube!!! Perhaps it is an agent provocateur that works for the government that put it up there?