Scientist says we're doomed; stop saving the world and retreat to climate-controlled cities

AndyMayhew

WhiteAlice

aivlas
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

So adding something that exponentially grows in numbers and has no predators will be fine.

edit on 9-4-2014 by aivlas because: ahhh more letters

No, it would not be. That is what is classified as an "invasive species". Such things actually tend to destroy the environments that they have been introduced to because they have no check against them within that environment. Rabbits in Australia, Africanized honey bees, and over half the ornamental plants in our gardens would all fall under "invasive species". They take up resources and space from life already established within that ecosystem without contribution to that environment (technically a predator is something that uses that species). They totally disrupt and imbalance the ecosystem.

Rabbits in Australia

And Homo Sapiens Idiotti wherever it's found?

Oddly enough, the Smithsonian has issued an article on the subject of Homo Sapiens and invasive species. In a way, the very definition of a the term basically prevents us from being called "invasive species" because we motored ourselves about. Both 2 & 4 in the Smithosonian article are really debatable and the entire definition could be subject to speciesism (think like racism but against entire species--it's an insane looking word, no?).

www.smithsonianmag.com...

soficrow
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Hats off to another Tepper fan. But now I have to reread Beauty. It'll take some time.

S&

Mhmm, I was thinking the same thing. Out of all my paperbacks, "Beauty" is the most beaten down and read into tatters book in this household, lol. Just have to track down its current resting spot as I'm not the only one who reads it here, lol. Tepper gets a lot of flack for being too depressing in her views in Beauty but most days, I think she might be spot on. The book is just amazing really albeit scarring. Fidipur is a horror show.

reply to post by aivlas

VoidHawk
Just more BS to push the BS!

Look outside, its lovely out there, its only in forums and on the msm that man made climate change exists!

WATER is by far the largest contributer to green house gases, and the planet is covered in the stuff, but they ignore that and concentrate on the miniscule amount of carbon that we create.

Just more BS.

In my post, I never said anything about manmade climate change, you injected that. As one other poster said, it's silly to even deny that some climate change is happening with constant blizzards, super storms, heatwaves or polar vortexes, etc.

I believe that we need to take a look at the levels of methane, rather than carbon, and see what it means for our future. I've explained the chain reaction over and over again in my posts so I won't do it again here, but its already begun...ocean and air temperatures are warming (regardless of the cause) and this is causing land ice, sea ice and permafrost to melt in the polar regions which is about to cause all kinds of problems. Also, the warmer temps are adding extra moisture to the atmosphere which adds extra energy to all storms (winter or summer) and the storms are going to continue to grow dangerously stronger.

In February there were lightning storms that hit in the Philadelphia area that were so strong, the power of the lightning strikes caused booms that were heard and felt like they were earthquakes, and the resulting thunder claps shattered windows. That's a powerful lightning storm right there, and in February of all months for that to occur. How does that not raise some alarms that Mother Nature is pisst right now?

Greven

the2ofusr1
WUWT readers may recall that since Dr. Moore has decided to speak out against global warming and for Golden Rice, Greenpeace is trying to disappear his status with the organization, much like people were disappeared in Soviet Russia.

This is one of the most absurd and ridiculous comparisons I've seen since that billionaire comparing criticism of the 1% to the Holocaust.

What kind of delusional source is this Watts Up With That?

Do you mean what kind of d̶e̶l̶u̶s̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶ source?
It's actually an excellent source of information in that field, you probably know that already since you didn't use the acronym WUWT.
It has many contributors, if you have a problem with that particular simile, take it up with the particular contributor at the site, webmaster or otherwise, you can do that in the blog/presentation forum.
You could also do the same with Greenpeace to try to elicit their slant on it. There's not much point on rabbiting here.

EternalWatcher
This sounds a lot like Agenda 21 to me. Move the population from the rural areas into cities......where they will be easier to control.

Yep, I agree with you. The climate wouldn't be the only thing controlled in the cities. Growing up in the northwoods of Wisconsin, I'll choose to take my chances living off the land.

mysterioustranger
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

Hey Rez-I have to agree with that. We spend so much time trying to fix things that are really beyond fixing....it just keeps society deluded, hopeful and busy.

We should spend all that time, research, money and effort on preparing us a place to go to.
We ruined what we've got. It will go completely bad-gone, way before we can fix it, if ever.

I think we need to get out....while we still can.

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

what if people started learning about permaculture and implementing it....if we all were to concentrate on returning the land to its natural state,we could all live in a self sustaining paradise.....but instead we rape and pillage the land ...sad thing is we know what to do but it is not profitable enough at this point for big business so there simply needs to be a change in the mindset

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

mysterioustranger
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

Hey Rez-I have to agree with that. We spend so much time trying to fix things that are really beyond fixing....it just keeps society deluded, hopeful and busy.

We should spend all that time, research, money and effort on preparing us a place to go to.
We ruined what we've got. It will go completely bad-gone, way before we can fix it, if ever.

I think we need to get out....while we still can.

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

what if people started learning about permaculture and implementing it....if we all were to concentrate on returning the land to its natural state,we could all live in a self sustaining paradise.....but instead we rape and pillage the land ...sad thing is we know what to do but it is not profitable enough at this point for big business so there simply needs to be a change in the mindset

You're right...there's no money in saving our planet, the money is in destroying it.

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

mysterioustranger
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

Hey Rez-I have to agree with that. We spend so much time trying to fix things that are really beyond fixing....it just keeps society deluded, hopeful and busy.

We should spend all that time, research, money and effort on preparing us a place to go to.
We ruined what we've got. It will go completely bad-gone, way before we can fix it, if ever.

I think we need to get out....while we still can.

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

what if people started learning about permaculture and implementing it....if we all were to concentrate on returning the land to its natural state,we could all live in a self sustaining paradise.....but instead we rape and pillage the land ...sad thing is we know what to do but it is not profitable enough at this point for big business so there simply needs to be a change in the mindset

lol I love this. I had two dreams once upon a time. First was working against bark beetle infestations in the hopes of finding a way to control the issue. Second was creating a landscaping company that actually restored surburban environments to a still aesthetically pleasing counterpart of itself. Health issues blocked following through on either dream but I still did implement it in my own yard. There isn't a thing planted in my yard that isn't indigenous and directly beneficial to the critters living in it. I have a "pet" raccoon, a family of squirrels (all named) and tons of birds as neighbors in my backyard. The raccoon actually wintered under our deck so no harm to the roofs and it's really freaking cool to watch him come out and walk around the deck. We haven't named him yet though.

Rehabilitating one's landscaping would be an easy and good first step that would actually cut down on watering bills to boot. It'd bring back much needed food sources to displaced wildlife.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I do that too but I'm more about bringing much needed food sources to myself.

lol.

soficrow
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

I do that too but I'm more about bringing much needed food sources to myself.

lol.

My backyard is filled with very large old cedars--very hostile environment for tomatoes, lol, but other plants that are native and food sources will grow (just not human food sources lol). I do grow food stuffs for us on the deck but the beauty is that the critters like them, too. And usually get first dibs. They got a little hungry this winter and were munching on my blueberry bush's leaves. The rascals.

WhiteAlice

hopenotfeariswhatweneed

mysterioustranger
reply to post by Rezlooper

 

Hey Rez-I have to agree with that. We spend so much time trying to fix things that are really beyond fixing....it just keeps society deluded, hopeful and busy.

We should spend all that time, research, money and effort on preparing us a place to go to.
We ruined what we've got. It will go completely bad-gone, way before we can fix it, if ever.

I think we need to get out....while we still can.

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

what if people started learning about permaculture and implementing it....if we all were to concentrate on returning the land to its natural state,we could all live in a self sustaining paradise.....but instead we rape and pillage the land ...sad thing is we know what to do but it is not profitable enough at this point for big business so there simply needs to be a change in the mindset

lol I love this. I had two dreams once upon a time. First was working against bark beetle infestations in the hopes of finding a way to control the issue. Second was creating a landscaping company that actually restored surburban environments to a still aesthetically pleasing counterpart of itself. Health issues blocked following through on either dream but I still did implement it in my own yard. There isn't a thing planted in my yard that isn't indigenous and directly beneficial to the critters living in it. I have a "pet" raccoon, a family of squirrels (all named) and tons of birds as neighbors in my backyard. The raccoon actually wintered under our deck so no harm to the roofs and it's really freaking cool to watch him come out and walk around the deck. We haven't named him yet though.

Rehabilitating one's landscaping would be an easy and good first step that would actually cut down on watering bills to boot. It'd bring back much needed food sources to displaced wildlife.

i like your way of thinking ...

changing the landscape is not that difficult,a couple of years and the system (if done correctly) will look after itself,my flatmate i found out last night has written a textbook on permaculture and we had a great conversation last night....we are on 10 acres here so now it is just a matter of talking the landlord into letting us use some land to create his dream....if we can do this i will document and photo what we do so i can post up before and after and of course the process in between so people can see what a self sustaining food farm is all about .....i love the idea of returning the balance back to nature and getting great natural food in the process

the change on this property i have seen already in the last 6 months is impressive,first we got some cows,which in turn attracted various birds that hang out with the cows,then a dam was excavated and has been empty until a week ago when we had around 300ml of rain in 24 hours and since then we have ducks and a whole array of native birds hanging out

reply to post by hopenotfeariswhatweneed


I think we should be well past the days where the idea of what's aesthetically pleasing is a flat green lawn and some shrubs. I've watched my own neighborhood shifting its former look of big green planks of useless lawn to more xeric gardens that may actually include some native species from bleeding heart to columbine to coralberry. I know that our local nursery does not sell invasive species as a rule, period. Only native plants and that's awesome. Switching it up to this kind of landscape helps the critters, consumes less water (smaller water bills), and still can look really nice. Plus it can turn your backyard its own local National Geographic channel through the comfort of your window.

The other thing we've been doing is taking fruits and veggies that we do buy that grow in the area and putting them out in a bin if we're not going to eat them before they spoil (thoroughly cleaned of course). We started doing that this winter in defense of the blueberry bush. Why shove it down a garbage disposal or toss it in a bin? It's great fun to watch the raccoon climb up out of his hiding place and watching him pick and choose what he's wanting to eat. We found out that even squirrels and raccoons aren't fond of beans. lol Interestingly enough, the neighbors' cats truck through there all the time and the raccoon leaves them alone. That was my one concern. A well fed raccoon is a happy raccoon apparently, lol.

Awesome that you guys are doing that. It's really neat to see what all comes in, isn't it?

reply to post by WhiteAlice


it is great watching wildlife return....i live in what used to be rainforest,sad to say there are only small fragments of the original forest left as it was all logged in australias early days and sent back to england,there is a place nearby called "UKI" which stands for "UK number 1" some of the best quality wood came from there.....

and your are right lawns and gardens are really a useless waste of space,people would be way better off planting native species and combining it with various food trees and plants that work with the native plants and animals...

No thanks to moving back into the city. I'll stay well away out here in the country where I live.

I'm over an hour and a half away from the ocean, at an elevation of almost 400 feet, so if all the ice melts, I'll still be high and dry.

Several hurricanes have come through, and we're still here.

Snow, major ice storms....and we're still here, living just fine.

I've got my own garden that does rather well, including wild things that grow here. Fruit trees that are doing fine, and nuts. There are still plenty of deer and other small game here (from rabbits to wild turkeys), and my own chickens give me eggs.

Drought might be a concern.....but for now, the aquafier below me is still so full that you can still drill down to just 80 feet and water comes gushing out (and it's damn good water too. I home brew, and people gush about how good my beer tastes....it's all about the water). However, yes, a very long term drought of no rain at all would end up being a problem.

But I'd rather deal with that, than move into a death trap called a city.

It's converging. Art Bell would call it the quickening. As we learn to control our environment to ever greater extents, it'll enable us to live in places we couldn't before. As the pressures on earth come down on us, it motivates us to find new ways to live on Earth. And as we expand out into space and beyond, we similarly are pressured to live in new ways. All the while technology will be advancing. I have no doubt in my mind humanity will survive whatever happens on Earth, but in what form? I don't know in what form we'll survive.

It's converging. Art Bell would call it the quickening. As we learn to control our environment to ever greater extents, it'll enable us to live in places we couldn't before. As the pressures on earth come down on us, it motivates us to find new ways to live on Earth. And as we expand out into space and beyond, we similarly are pressured to live in new ways. All the while technology will be advancing. I have no doubt in my mind humanity will survive whatever happens on Earth, but in what form will we survive? I don't know. Nobody does, except maybe the overlords, if they exist. Maybe they've seen all this happen before, over billions of years.

Pressures on earth mirror the pressures we find in space travel. Yet the pressures in space offer us the potential of using He3 to power fusion plants. They also offer us greater spaces to expand our population. Once we're able to sustainably live on spaceships or on outworld colonies, our ability to survive will be broader.

I don't think we can know. It's like asking people in 1900 to guess our ability to survive until 2000. We can certainly look back on it and argue people in 1900 knew almost nothing and couldn't make a good guess. And yet in the same thought we'll probably argue our guess today would be much better. To that, I have to say people in 2200 would look back on us and say we were too stupid to guess what would happen in the next 100 years. We can at best make an educated guess.

I'm still cautiously optimistic. I've had low points where I thought we were doomed too. I remember back in 2003 reading environmental news about how humans had destroyed some 30% of the earth in some manner. They estimated we'd kill off ~40% of species at some nearby time in the future. I really read a lot back then and felt terrible about our future. Nowadays I'm a lot more bittersweet. I believe humans want to live too much and nothing will stop us except God. Sure, Earth could be struck by a large asteroid or a mega pathogen could kill off 95% of people or the Earth could become uninhabitable within a few short years because of catastrophic methane leaks and/or supervolcanic activity. But I believe Humans have thousands, if not millions of years ahead of us. We're a small part. I just don't know if we'll look anything like we do today or if we'll even be biological.

Climate controlled cities built with what money now? We are broke and if someone else builds them then guess what? Welcome to your indentured servitude. This is the Georgia Guide Stones wet dream.

reply to post by Rezlooper

Cliamte Control Cities eh? Had to look into that.
Maybe starting these things on small scales would influence the larger cities to consider the same.
Also, how about small, village size domes?
It makes sense to prepare for the inevitable, regardless of why it is happening, it is best to anticipate and be prepared for any disasters, SRM issues, extreme temperature swings or even subtle yet significant alterations in climate that will contribute to food shortages

I enjoy your methane threads and agree that this is a major concern. The amounts freed from thawing permafrost and icy regions will be significant. Look forward to your book and please let us know when it is finished.

eriktheawful
No thanks to moving back into the city. I'll stay well away out here in the country where I live.

I'm over an hour and a half away from the ocean, at an elevation of almost 400 feet, so if all the ice melts, I'll still be high and dry.

Several hurricanes have come through, and we're still here.

Snow, major ice storms....and we're still here, living just fine.

I've got my own garden that does rather well, including wild things that grow here. Fruit trees that are doing fine, and nuts. There are still plenty of deer and other small game here (from rabbits to wild turkeys), and my own chickens give me eggs.

Drought might be a concern.....but for now, the aquafier below me is still so full that you can still drill down to just 80 feet and water comes gushing out (and it's damn good water too. I home brew, and people gush about how good my beer tastes....it's all about the water). However, yes, a very long term drought of no rain at all would end up being a problem.

But I'd rather deal with that, than move into a death trap called a city.

You don't seem to understand...yes, there will be no ocean front property anymore, but also, as we pass the point of no return with methane release and the Clathrate Gun starts firing the climate will change at an extreme level making life on earth nearly impossible. The climate zones will change. The tropical zones will be inhabitable with extreme heat, super storms that will destroy everything in their path, flame and fire every where...basically a real Hell on Earth experience. The more northern zones, say in America north of the southern states, will also be very difficult to live in with extreme weather every passing day once again, destroying every thing in its path, more fire and flame, heat, extreme moisture with floods, not to mention the land subsidence events the earth will be experiencing. Even zones further north into Canada will be like what living in Florida is now. The far north zone to the Arctic Circle will be your best bet, possibly some mild winters yet and hot summers that we know today. Maybe.

Sorry to have such a doom and gloom outlook, but like I said in the beginning of this thread, I just finished writing a book on the subject of methane and hydrogen sulfide release and what it's doing to our planet. I'm convinced that this scientist is correct, we may have already passed the tipping point and there's no saving the planet. The gun may already be firing: Alert: Clathrate Gun is firing

It's strange how so many signs of Revelations are playing out today with natural phenomenons and now, the different signs from the heavens. There are verses Luke Chapter 21 where Jesus states when these end times come and it's spot on with whats happening now. With what I described above, after we pass a certain point it will become a thousand years of hell on earth and that's just what Revelations says...after the Rapture and all other parts of the bible book play out it says there will be one thousand years of hell on earth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Rezlooper


They always say "by 2050" or "by the end of the century". It is happening now. There is no need to wait until the sea creeps up Big Ben or the Empire State, the economy will have collapsed long before that. The economy is the weakest link in the chain.

reply to post by Rezlooper


Sounds like he is peddling fear porn to boost his book sales. Yeah i think our weather is out of whack and sure we might face some hard ships down the road but his reasoning seems not only far fetched but unrealistic. No such thing as climate controlled cities or even in the near future unless its a bio dome of some kind. In such a scenario food would be no longer available since plant and animal would not survive. Humanity would just limp along in its death throes.