It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Obamacare is working!

page: 14
27
<< 11  12  13    15  16  17 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:26 PM
link   
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


How about from the same speech:



We have had a balanced budget only eight times in the last 57 years. For the first time in 14 years, the federal government spent less in real terms last year than the year before. We took $73 billion off last year's deficit compared to the year before. The deficit itself has moved from 6.3 percent of the Gross National Product to only 3.4 percent.

~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan
edit on 4/13/2014 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:26 PM
link   

HomerinNC
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


Just curious...
How many times was the debt ceiling raised during the Regan Administration? Obama Administration?
How many times was the govt shutdown during the Regan Administration? Obama Administration?


I am not sure.

What is your point?

How many times did Obama raise taxes?

How many times did Reagan raise taxes? 1982, 1984, 1985, 1986 and 1987

But the real point is Obama never claimed to be a conservative, but we see that conservatives love big talk and could care less about actual policy.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:28 PM
link   
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


What's my point?
Obamas Administration increased the debt much higher then the Regan admin. You don't raise debt ceilings and shutdown the govt and force furloughs if there is money



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:38 PM
link   

edit on 13-4-2014 by spurgeonatorsrevenge because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:39 PM
link   

spurgeonatorsrevenge

HomerinNC
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


What's my point?
Obamas Administration increased the debt much higher then the Regan admin. You don't raise debt ceilings and shutdown the govt and force furloughs if there is money


That is not true, the interest alone on Reagan's debt is over two trillion, the principle is near 6 trillion now, Obama hasn't broken 5 trillion yet. Plus we are talking about 1980 money as opposed to 2014 money.

And Reagan increase the debt ceiling every year of his presidency.

The government shutdown was orchestrated by Republicans, not Obama



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:45 PM
link   

spurgeonatorsrevenge

xuenchen

spurgeonatorsrevenge

rickynews

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.





Meanwhile President Ronald Wilson Reagan spent more than any president before him. He also created more debt than the 30 plus presidents before him COMBINED.

It is hard to take conservatism seriously when the person you quote did the exact opposite of what you claim to want.

It must be nice to be so taken by words and a haircut.


I beg your pardon !!!





Does not change the fact that Reagan accrued more than all the presidents before him combined.

"GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG, AND IT SPENDS TOO MUCH (so I'll increase both and retarded people will quote my words and ignore my actions)" ~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan

"


Oh YES it does !!

Obama *IS* the King of the Big Time Binge Spenders.




posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 04:48 PM
link   

xuenchen

spurgeonatorsrevenge

xuenchen

spurgeonatorsrevenge

rickynews

lynxpilot
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


I don't think you realize that the government system is not sustainable. Sustainable seems to be a left-leaning, liberal ideology these days in terms of anything else, so why wouldn't it apply to medical care? The government in the US is supposed to be minimal and liberty is supposed to be maximized. Programs like Obamacare/ACA foster a nanny state ideology and breed a nation of indifferent and entitlement-minded minions who'd freely give up their ideals of liberty to have a totalitarian federal government provide their basic needs and subsequently encourage them to become dependent. The incentive to be independent and self-supporting is gone, and in it's aftermath anybody who truly works to succeed is penalized by those who aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to avoid being social parasites.





Meanwhile President Ronald Wilson Reagan spent more than any president before him. He also created more debt than the 30 plus presidents before him COMBINED.

It is hard to take conservatism seriously when the person you quote did the exact opposite of what you claim to want.

It must be nice to be so taken by words and a haircut.


I beg your pardon !!!





Does not change the fact that Reagan accrued more than all the presidents before him combined.

"GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG, AND IT SPENDS TOO MUCH (so I'll increase both and retarded people will quote my words and ignore my actions)" ~ U.S. President Ronald Wilson Reagan

"


Oh YES it does !!

Obama *IS* the King of the Big Time Binge Spenders.



You guys are so funny defending people like Reagan who do the exact opposite of what you claim to want. Is it all a joke to you, or do you actually want conservative policies?



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 05:11 PM
link   
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


Agree 100%



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 05:12 PM
link   
reply to post by xuenchen
 


You have offerred a very Inconveneint Truth.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 05:17 PM
link   
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


Reaganomics vs. Obamanomics.

Or.. the contrast between efforts to promote free market capitalism versus efforts to promote big government stateism.

When Reagan came into office in 1981, he actually faced much worse economic conditions than Obama faced in 2009. 3 recessions going all the way back to 1969 were about to culminate into the worst of all- 1981-82. Even mainstream economists agree that the '81-82 recession was worse than the great recession. All at the same time, the United States saw:


    -Double digit unemployment (Peaking at 10.8%)
    -Double digit inflation (13.5% in 1980)
    -Double digit interest rates (Prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980)
    -Poverty rate in the United States started increasing in 1978, climbing by 33% (from 11.4% to 15.2%)
    -A fall in real median family income began in 1978, declined by 10% by 1982.
    -From 1968 to 1982 the DJIA lost 70% of its real value.


By the time Reagan stepped into office, he had to deal with this disaster. What did he do?


    -Lowering Taxes. First reduction in taxes occurred in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across the board reduction in income taxes for everyone. The 1986 tax reform lowered taxes even further, leaving just two rates. (15% and 28%)

    -Spending reductions. $31b cut in spending in 1981. (Close to 5% of the federal budget back then- about ~$175b in today's dollars.) In constant dollars, non defense discretionary spending 14.4% from 1981 to 1982. 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. In constant dollars, this non discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan's two terms.

    -Anti-inflationary monetary policy. He restrained money supply growth compared to demand to maintain a stronger dollar. What's happening to day is exactly the opposite- massive printing.

    -Deregulation. Reagan's first executive order eliminated prices on oil and natural gas. Production increased and, aided by a strong dollar, the price of oil declined.


The Reagan recovery started (by official record) in November 1982 and lasted 92 months (setting a new record) until July 1990 when the tax increase of the 1990 budget deal killed it. (That was George H.W Bush and the democrat congress going back on his "read my lips no new taxes" pledge.)

During the 7 year recovery:


    -The economy grew by almost 1/3. The equivalent of adding the entire economy of then West Germany (The 3rd largest economy in the world at the time)

    -In 1984 alone, real economic growth boomed by 6.8%. (The highest in 50 years)

    -Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S civilian employment by almost 20%.

    -Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989, from its high if 10.8%

    -Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in 7 years.

    -The poverty rate started to declining in 1984 and continued to decline every year until 1989, falling 1/6th from its peak.

    -The stock market more than tripled from 1980 to 1990. (A larger increase than in every previous decade)


In a book titled "The end of Prosperity" by Art Laffer and Steve Moore, they suggest that the Reagan recovery grew into a 25 year boom (1982 - 2007) with just slight interruption by short and shallow recession in 1990 and 2001. They wrote, "We call this period from 1982 to 2007 the 25 year boom. The greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet."

In 1980 the net worth assets minus liabilities of all U.S house holds and businesses was $25t in today's dollars. By 2007 net worth was just shy of $57t. So adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America during the 25 year boom than the previous 200 years combined.

What's so strange about Obamanomics is that pursues the exact opposite of Reaganomics. Instead of cutting taxes, the top tax bracket has been increased. Instead of coming into office with spending cuts, Obama's first act was a nearly $1t stimulus package. In his first two years in office he increased federal spending by 28%.

While the Reagan recover averaged 7.1% economic growth over the first 7 quarters, the Obama has produced less than half- 2.8%. After 7 quarters of Reagan recovery unemployment had fallen 3.3 percentage points from its peak of 7.8%. Not so with Obama.

I know it kills some of you but, capitalism creates wealth, prosperity, opportunity, and jobs. Big government and massive spending destroys those things.

The Obama recovery is the slowest on record (Post WW2) and the unemployment rate falling is mainly people dropping out of the labor force because of discouragement, and that doesn't even account for underemployment. Most of the jobs created have been part time jobs that pay minimum wage.
edit on 4/13/2014 by UziXxX because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 05:21 PM
link   
reply to post by UziXxX
 

Uzi, great facts. It is for the above reasons, and many others as well, that President Reagan is one of the most beloved U.S. Presidents in American history, with sincere American admiration, including Democrats and Republicans and Independents alike.
edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 06:49 PM
link   
reply to post by UziXxX
 


Sorry to bring this to you, Obama and Bush has been nothing but big government spenders, working with a broken economy, but Reagan was the one that handle the government to the hands of the corporate power, becoming the corporate government we have today.

He is been hailed as a savior, but in reality he just screwed the economy to the point that the results of all the subsequence policies of later presidents still can not fix the mess he started.

He was an actor that actually believe he could play the role of a president, the corporate power had him in his pocket from the time he was sworn in

Reagan is known as the president that gave America to be ruled by private interest.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:18 PM
link   


All the things that Conservatives tried to tell us was going to happen under Obama. How many of these things happened?

Really? Do you live in a FEMA Camp?

I'll give you a little personal story, after Hurricane Charley, the town I lived in Punta Gorda Florida was pretty wiped out. My house was destroyed. I lived in a FEMA Camp for about 16 months. Far be it from a concentration camp that Conservatives often try and portray. It was actually pretty decent.

Gun owners, let me ask you a question. Do you still have your guns?

Really? You do? And what's the body count of the ATF members outside your house? Zero? Really? How did that happen? Maybe it's because "Da gubermint ain't comin after yer gunz"

Anyone have a government issued implant yet? Yea, I didn't think they did.

How's that Sharia Law workin out for Y'all? Oh there isn't Sharia Law?

Oh I'm so sorry to hear about Grandma, must be tough losing her to a death panel like that right? Oh what? Wait? No death panels?

So, how many reports of gay marriages destroying all that is good about this nation have there been? None? Weird!

Wonder if the ACA isn't just part of ALL THIS HYPE!



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:18 PM
link   

Gryphon66
reply to post by Daedalus
 


1) The member in question used a quote from a liberally-biased website to try to prove a conservatively-biased point. Seems to me a matter of basic reading comprehension.

The line quote stated clearly that the actions of the state of Florida are what prevented the poor woman from qualification for coverage under the terms of the ACA, which might (or might not) have saved her life.

(The lady might have died anyway, as it sounds like she was on her medication, but it is certain that one or both sides are certainly making political hay out of it.)

Now, whether that quote was correct or not is up for clear debate, and I'm not debating that. I've got enough muck on my boots.


i believe the point was that the ACA was sold to the american people as a cure-all, that would make it so EVERYONE could get health insurance....this clearly isn't the case..

it more or less boils down to "if it was what they said it would be, why couldn't she get insurance? why did she hafta die?"



2) I am deeply, soul-rendingly, mind-agonizingly offended by the term Chucklehead.


LOL!



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:27 PM
link   
reply to post by HauntWok
 


Well thank Gawd that enough people were able to fight off the Obama LLC agendas.

The fight is not over yet either.

Obama is persistent.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:28 PM
link   
rickynews: I knew Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Ronald Reagan.
edit on 13-4-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:32 PM
link   
reply to post by HomerinNC
 


Friend, I think that name-calling by and large is counterproductive, but everyone's mileage varies.

ACA is not perfect by a longshot ... a long long shot, but it's not what killed that lady in the article.

What should have been done was single payer for every American citizen equal (at least) to the Federal Employee Benefit Plan.

I don't care how we pay for it. Close a war. Sell a few drones. Fire Congress. Rent the Capital.



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:35 PM
link   
right, so certain member's persistent trolling aside...back to the topic...

i've always found it odd, how people have been conditioned to associate "health insurance", with "health care"...people are conditioned this way so strongly, that they use the terms interchangeably, when they're not the same thing....we need MEDICAL SERVICES("health care"), not health insurance......

i mean, health insurance is kind of a dumb thing anyway, when you think about it.....because of HMOs, the cost of medical services is more.....we see a doctor, and they submit a request for payment to the HMO, the HMO approves it, and pays the doctor...and we pay them for this?....wouldn't it make more sense to go see a doctor, and pay them ourselves? why pay thousands upon thousands of dollars a year for a middleman who does something we're perfectly capable of doing ourselves?

it makes less than no sense...

if we got rid of HMOs, there would be no need for the ACA...

if we replaced HMO/ACA with NMSS, there'd be no need to worry about access to medical services...
edit on 13-4-2014 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:41 PM
link   

UziXxX
reply to post by spurgeonatorsrevenge
 


Reaganomics vs. Obamanomics.

Or.. the contrast between efforts to promote free market capitalism versus efforts to promote big government stateism.

When Reagan came into office in 1981, he actually faced much worse economic conditions than Obama faced in 2009. 3 recessions going all the way back to 1969 were about to culminate into the worst of all- 1981-82. Even mainstream economists agree that the '81-82 recession was worse than the great recession. All at the same time, the United States saw:


That is not true, the 81' - 82 recession was not worse than 08'. That is laughable, half the DOW did not disappear in less than a year and America was not losing 750,000 a month.


    -Double digit unemployment (Peaking at 10.8%)
    -Double digit inflation (13.5% in 1980)
    -Double digit interest rates (Prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980)
    -Poverty rate in the United States started increasing in 1978, climbing by 33% (from 11.4% to 15.2%)
    -A fall in real median family income began in 1978, declined by 10% by 1982.
    -From 1968 to 1982 the DJIA lost 70% of its real value.


By the time Reagan stepped into office, he had to deal with this disaster. What did he do?


    -Lowering Taxes. First reduction in taxes occurred in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across the board reduction in income taxes for everyone. The 1986 tax reform lowered taxes even further, leaving just two rates. (15% and 28%)

    -Spending reductions. $31b cut in spending in 1981. (Close to 5% of the federal budget back then- about ~$175b in today's dollars.) In constant dollars, non defense discretionary spending 14.4% from 1981 to 1982. 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. In constant dollars, this non discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan's two terms.

    -Anti-inflationary monetary policy. He restrained money supply growth compared to demand to maintain a stronger dollar. What's happening to day is exactly the opposite- massive printing.

    -Deregulation. Reagan's first executive order eliminated prices on oil and natural gas. Production increased and, aided by a strong dollar, the price of oil declined.


The Reagan recovery started (by official record) in November 1982 and lasted 92 months (setting a new record) until July 1990 when the tax increase of the 1990 budget deal killed it. (That was George H.W Bush and the democrat congress going back on his "read my lips no new taxes" pledge.)

During the 7 year recovery:


    -The economy grew by almost 1/3. The equivalent of adding the entire economy of then West Germany (The 3rd largest economy in the world at the time)

    -In 1984 alone, real economic growth boomed by 6.8%. (The highest in 50 years)

    -Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S civilian employment by almost 20%.

    -Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989, from its high if 10.8%

    -Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in 7 years.

    -The poverty rate started to declining in 1984 and continued to decline every year until 1989, falling 1/6th from its peak.

    -The stock market more than tripled from 1980 to 1990. (A larger increase than in every previous decade)


In a book titled "The end of Prosperity" by Art Laffer and Steve Moore, they suggest that the Reagan recovery grew into a 25 year boom (1982 - 2007) with just slight interruption by short and shallow recession in 1990 and 2001. They wrote, "We call this period from 1982 to 2007 the 25 year boom. The greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet."

In 1980 the net worth assets minus liabilities of all U.S house holds and businesses was $25t in today's dollars. By 2007 net worth was just shy of $57t. So adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America during the 25 year boom than the previous 200 years combined.

What's so strange about Obamanomics is that pursues the exact opposite of Reaganomics. Instead of cutting taxes, the top tax bracket has been increased. Instead of coming into office with spending cuts, Obama's first act was a nearly $1t stimulus package. In his first two years in office he increased federal spending by 28%.

While the Reagan recover averaged 7.1% economic growth over the first 7 quarters, the Obama has produced less than half- 2.8%. After 7 quarters of Reagan recovery unemployment had fallen 3.3 percentage points from its peak of 7.8%. Not so with Obama.

I know it kills some of you but, capitalism creates wealth, prosperity, opportunity, and jobs. Big government and massive spending destroys those things.

The Obama recovery is the slowest on record (Post WW2) and the unemployment rate falling is mainly people dropping out of the labor force because of discouragement, and that doesn't even account for underemployment. Most of the jobs created have been part time jobs that pay minimum wage.
edit on 4/13/2014 by UziXxX because: (no reason given)


Your article forgot to mention that Reagan raised taxes over ten times.Even though he said he hated taxes

Created more debt than ALL the presidents before him combined. Even though he claimed to hate big government

Nearly 35% of our current deficit of >18 Trillion was accrued during Reagan. But you guys still admire his conservatism?


2 Trillion of our current debt is simply interest on Reagan's initial debt.

Reagan recovery is a bunch of horse$hit - Reagan single handedly gave birth to the modern nation debt by increasing US governmental expenditures by a 100% and more in many cases.

even the conservative Mises Institute confirms the phony hype surrounding Reagan's conservatism.

Ronald Reagan's faithful followers claim he has used his skills as the Great Communicator to reverse the growth of Leviathan and inaugurate a new era of liberty and free markets. Reagan himself said, "It is time to check and reverse the growth of government."


Yet after nearly eight years of Reaganism, the clamor for more government intervention in the economy was so formidable that Reagan abandoned the free-market position and acquiesced in further crippling of the economy and our liberties. In fact, the number of free-market achievements by the administration are so few that they can be counted on one hand—with fingers left over.


mises.org...



posted on Apr, 13 2014 @ 07:41 PM
link   

marg6043
reply to post by UziXxX
 


Sorry to bring this to you, Obama and Bush has been nothing but big government spenders, working with a broken economy, but Reagan was the one that handle the government to the hands of the corporate power, becoming the corporate government we have today.

He is been hailed as a savior, but in reality he just screwed the economy to the point that the results of all the subsequence policies of later presidents still can not fix the mess he started.

He was an actor that actually believe he could play the role of a president, the corporate power had him in his pocket from the time he was sworn in

Reagan is known as the president that gave America to be ruled by private interest.



In all honesty, I'm sort of split here. Part of me agrees with you, and part of me disagrees with you.

I'll agree that among those on the "right" side of the political spectrum have been guilty of pumping up the presidency of Reagan. I agree for the most part. He has been hailed as a savior, and people are quick to overlook the negative aspects of what he did. (1986 amnesty is a good example). In 1994 he even held the opinion that the public shouldn't have assault rifles. Don't get me wrong. Reagan wasn't a god, and I don't agree with everything he did.

As for Reagan handing over control and power to the corporations... debatable. Crony capitalism existed long before the 1980s. Whether or not unleashing the private sector was the final nail in the coffin is opinion based. It all depends on your point of view.

All of that having been said, I do agree that corporations have more influence in government than I'd like.




top topics



 
27
<< 11  12  13    15  16  17 >>

log in

join