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How do we get rid of ObamaCare?

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posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by Zanti Misfit
 



I am an American , I am also a Capitalist .


I believe in a regulated free market.


y Present Socialist Bent Government Discourages me from taking care of my immediate Family by earning a Decent Living through the Fruits of my Labor with Excessive Taxation .


The rich don't create jobs. It's a fact that the more wealth you have, the less you spend over time.

The government DOES NOT create jobs. It CANNOT do so. All the government can do is create the ENVIRONMENT in which jobs CAN be created, by ENCOURAGING ethical and sound businesses to do business.

Furthermore, only businesses who are WILLING to act in an ethical and socially responsible way will do business in countries like the US, because greedy companies who only care about the bottom line, can do so in other countries.

Without the nuisance of 'regulation'.

People are mad at the wrong people. Truly.

~Tenth




posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


" I believe in a regulated free market. "


I also Believe in Jumbo Shrimp .......



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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Zanti Misfit
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


" I believe in a regulated free market. "


I also Believe in Jumbo Shrimp .......



You literally have said nothing of substance since this conversation started. Do you not understand the concepts we are discussing?

Or are you just spitting out talking points you've heard on the JumboTron but never took a moment to think about?

My random words question from earlier wasn't in jest.

I really have no time for conversations that include only personal opinions, poorly formulated from spoon fed propagandists.

~Tenth
edit on 4/8/2014 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


But we have already seen the IRS used as a modern Tammery Hall. In fact, those behind such "equitable treatment under the law" for political leanings are the ones in charge of enforcement of Obamacare. Does our Attorney General react? No of course not. He pardoned those that engaged in active voter intimidation. Maybe to keep from gun running investigations, perhaps? But the implementation doesn't help poor people. The policies do not help poor people. The subsidies do not help poor people either, because it is considered income that wasn't taxed....wait for it... The subsidies are untaxed income. Just like those that bought a car under Cash for Clunkers or bought a house under the First Time Buyer programs. Just like the poor people that cash in a 401k plan in order to try to keep a roof over their heads pay 30% in taxes before receiving a dime.

This from a federal government that already rakes in $35 Billion a year at the gas pump and will not spend a penny to replace a bridge that has 10% of the nation's GDP cross it per year.

I trust them no more than I can freely go speak with them.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 08:12 PM
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My head is spinning from all your answers right now!
From them I have seen this topic in somewhat of a new light though. Using an architectural analogy, I can't help but feel this system has been built on an unstable foundation many years ago and now that we've given the structure on top a bright and shiny renovation, parts are destined to come crumbling down as we scamper trying to shore up the rest, before it all collapses.
Some points I wish could change are how this is tied to our taxation system. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know how to even begin to do something like that, but I feel it's a strong point that needs to be addressed. Many (including myself) are outraged this is tied so directly to the IRS. Our drivers licenses are not part of our federal or state 'end of year' taxes, couldn't they have come up with another way to address the inflow of revenue?
I guess my american idealism pushes me to see and want a solution that is equal and fair to all US citizens. Obviously, that is not happening. So many of you share the same frustration I have with this but others, though fewer have been rewarded by it. I truly am at a loss and I don't think it matters who we elect in the following years, they are not going to be able to fix this.
I have been very rich and very poor in my short life, sometimes I think it gives me a unique perspective on matters. I can't help but feel the need to help those in desperation but at the same time it is a personal decision of mine to do so. The middle class is all but gone now and with current recessions, obsolete infrastructure, low wages, high taxes, flagrant government spending, outrageous utility bills, high food costs and education failing this extra stress is contributing to the breakdown of an already broken system.
We all need to do something. That manner in which most have been so comfortably living in the past decades is now gone. I grew up middle class dreaming as a parent to be able to give my children the experiences my parents gave me. That dream is now not only impossible for middle class families, but also some in the upper class. Maybe the title of this thread 'How do we get rid of ObamaCare?' was only a tool in revealing the real issues at hand, under the surface. Maybe now it should be 'What are you going to do when the US collapses?'

Thanks everyone for all the insight. . . AB
(I'm going to try and read some of the links posted in the next few days)



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by Ahabstar
 


By that logic, are you saying that ACA is yet another hand out to the wealthy?

I'm curious because I did not know about these subsidies or anything and I could see how that plays out negatively for a lot of people.

~Tenth



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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How do we get rid of ObamaCare?
We don't ! we keep it,unless we are willing to go single pair,I am truly impressed that the majority of resopndants here are in fact part of the 1% who never have to worry about going bankrupt through expensive medical bills or being screwed over by their insurance companies because that hang nail you had counts as a pre-existing condition now that you need a bypass or kimo.
Where is America's exceptionalism in all this other industrialized nations make it work and it do not suck I can personally attest to that,you wanna cut something??. cut useless defense programs that benefits only the military industrial complex,cut subsidies for oil companies the most profitable multi national corporations on this planet.
CHOOSE PEOPLE OVER PROFITS


edit on 8-4-2014 by Spider879 because: fix



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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Spider879
How do we get rid of ObamaCare?
We don't ! we keep it,unless we are willing to go single pair,I am truly impressed that the majority of resopndants here are in fact part of the 1% who never have to worry about going bankrupt through expensive medical bills or being screwed over by their insurance companies because that hang nail you had counts as a pre-existing condition now that you need a bypass or kimo.
Where is America's exceptionalism in all this other industrialized nations make it work and it do not suck I can personally attest to that,you wanna cut something??. cut useless defense programs that benefits only the military industrial complex,cut subsidies for oil companies the most profitable multi national corporations on this planet.
CHOOSE PEOPLE OVER PROFITS


edit on 8-4-2014 by Spider879 because: fix


My friend, i don't think you understand what ACA is.

We aren't just paying a higher rate of tax and having a benefit provided. No, we are being forced to pay higher premiums (mine have almost doubled in 4 years) for less service and higher copays. Yes, it may effect, in a positive manner, less than 1/2 of 1% of our country. And that is nice. But i am taking it in the keister for that? Really? Why can't i just pay the same amount and have socialized medicine? I suspect that if you take our federally mandated insurance premium, and added it to our taxes we pay, we would be the most taxed populace on the planet. And we still have to meet a deductable and cough up a copay.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Spider879
 


Americans who filed bankruptcy with medical debts averaged only $5000 worth of claims (2009 info ?).

Families were higher.

I'm sure those averages are higher today.

And I know those numbers will grow in time.

The government subsidies and tax credits do not pay for deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses.

The PPACA is about as UN-Affordable as they can get it.

The "1%" don't worry about small medical payments. The Middle-Class does.



They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness.

On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies




posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:01 PM
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bigfatfurrytexan

Spider879
How do we get rid of ObamaCare?
We don't ! we keep it,unless we are willing to go single pair,I am truly impressed that the majority of resopndants here are in fact part of the 1% who never have to worry about going bankrupt through expensive medical bills or being screwed over by their insurance companies because that hang nail you had counts as a pre-existing condition now that you need a bypass or kimo.
Where is America's exceptionalism in all this other industrialized nations make it work and it do not suck I can personally attest to that,you wanna cut something??. cut useless defense programs that benefits only the military industrial complex,cut subsidies for oil companies the most profitable multi national corporations on this planet.
CHOOSE PEOPLE OVER PROFITS


edit on 8-4-2014 by Spider879 because: fix


My friend, i don't think you understand what ACA is.

We aren't just paying a higher rate of tax and having a benefit provided. No, we are being forced to pay higher premiums (mine have almost doubled in 4 years) for less service and higher copays. Yes, it may effect, in a positive manner, less than 1/2 of 1% of our country. And that is nice. But i am taking it in the keister for that? Really? Why can't i just pay the same amount and have socialized medicine? I suspect that if you take our federally mandated insurance premium, and added it to our taxes we pay, we would be the most taxed populace on the planet. And we still have to meet a deductable and cough up a copay.


Hi Bigfurry you said you are being forced to pay higher premiums that doubled in 4yrs,but is that a feature of ACA or insurance companies decide to jack-up the price for no other reason than they can,ok one of my critique of the ACA is they did not put a cap on how much insurance companies can gougue their costomers..why??.. I think out of fear that they could be blasted for interferring with the "free market" can that portion be fixed??.sure it can but it reqires folks in office to actually grow a pair and ignore the obstructionist,something much more harder to do now that SOCTUS pulled out all stops for lobbyist to pour big money to politicians on both sides.
edit on 8-4-2014 by Spider879 because: fix



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by Spider879
 


They have a "cap".

The law says they must payout 80% - 85% of premium money collected for medical expenses.

If they fall short, they must rebate the money back to policy holders.

I think that part of the law has been in effect for a couple of years already.

I can't remember what they call it.

I have to look it up somewhere.

_____added;

it's called the Medical Loss Ratio.......

some MLR info


edit on Apr-08-2014 by xuenchen because:




posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by Spider879
 




that is kind of hard to tell. My plan didn't stay the same, as we were migrated to an ACA compliant plan. Lucky for me, i get get birth control required to be covered, but now must pay an out of pocket charge for a shot of penicillin of $150 (before the ACA compliant policy, I didn't have to pay for injections).

But the real point here is: there is a middle man who wants to make money standing in the middle: insurance companies. Why? If Obama wanted everyone to have health care, and didn't mind making most of us pay more to cover the costs....why not allow us to keep the profits and eliminate the insurance company? How on God's green earth does that even make sense, outside of New Jersey, that is?



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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Can someone point out TWO legitimate things that they personally hate about Obamacare?



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:23 PM
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If you don't like it Republicans, then give us your plan.
Oh yeah, this was your plan, before it wasn't your plan.

NixonCare, ReaganCare, RomneyCare...

Maybe if they call it "RepubliCare" they won't go to bed angry.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:23 PM
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bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Spider879
 




that is kind of hard to tell. My plan didn't stay the same, as we were migrated to an ACA compliant plan. Lucky for me, i get get birth control required to be covered, but now must pay an out of pocket charge for a shot of penicillin of $150 (before the ACA compliant policy, I didn't have to pay for injections).

But the real point here is: there is a middle man who wants to make money standing in the middle: insurance companies. Why? If Obama wanted everyone to have health care, and didn't mind making most of us pay more to cover the costs....why not allow us to keep the profits and eliminate the insurance company? How on God's green earth does that even make sense, outside of New Jersey, that is?


Because Big Furry that would reqire single pair which would make the noise makers scream even louder of charges of socialism,a much harder task even for Lib leaning Dems that would be a difficult sell so goes conventional wisdom.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Spider879
 


"single payer" was the buzzword of the day during the whole ACA "debate" (not much of a debate, really. No one read the bill before they passed it).

I expect my elected officials to work towards betterment of the country. ACA does not better the country. It really doesn't. It crushes even further the middle class for the benefit of less than 1/3 of 1% of America. That is where we stand today. 850k out of 300mil have gained coverage that didn't otherwise have it before. that is 0.33%. There is no standard of performance in existence that would approve of that net result, other than Chinese manufacturing lines.

You have to keep in mind...i am a 41 year old man who has spent more than 2/3 of his life either right at or barely above the poverty line. This isn't a "1%" thing. I still earn 5 figures a year....i am not highly paid or wealthy. I have scratched, clawed, and fought my way into a wholly middle class lifestyle. One of the few in modern America, to be honest.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:39 PM
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rupertg
If you don't like it Republicans, then give us your plan.
Oh yeah, this was your plan, before it wasn't your plan.

NixonCare, ReaganCare, RomneyCare...

Maybe if they call it "RepubliCare" they won't go to bed angry.



LOL you forgot about "Bush.Care" !!

How could you?

It was a masterpiece wasn't it. Just look.


Bushcare


What Bush's health plan means to you


Democrats had control of Congress from January 2007 all thru 2010.

Democrats passed PPACA. No Republicans voted for it at all. Zero.

Democrats *OWN* Obama.Care 100%.



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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JesusChristwins
1) Either leave your country and move to Europe where things are better than the US


Most of Europe has universal health care.... in fact, most civilised countries have it!

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


I am really glad that you can afford to pay for your kids college in full. Thats GREAT. But not everyone has the option of mommy and daddy paying for their education. My my case my father wasted any money he made and by the time my Mom wised up he died and she lost her eyesight and could no longer work as a nurse. Not a lot of money left over given the circumstances. I put myself through school and finally got my degree..over TEN years. Meanwhile I have worked with a lot of very well educated foreign workers (because there were no US workers available, or willing, to do those jobs) They were so well educated because they all received their educations paid for by their countries. Their countries did this because they realized it was, and is, a long term INVESTMENT, most of their money went back to their families back in their home countries.

But really I think the real problem here are the universities charges OUTRAGEOUS amounts for tuition. I know people who will be paying for their education for the next 20 or 30 YEARS. The days of being able to work your way through college are over.

So I am GLAD you were wealthy enough to pay for kids college but wouldn't it have been nice if your country had been willing to make an investment in their future and let you put that money away for your retirement or if nothing else to leave it to your kids to spend they way they want. Why is it there is plenty of money for war, or 50 votes to defund Obamacare, or government waste but there is never enough money for education and health care. If our country got its priorities straight it would be a better place to live for everyone.
edit on 8-4-2014 by AllInMyHead because: typo



posted on Apr, 8 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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3u40r15m
Can someone point out TWO legitimate things that they personally hate about Obamacare?


1. forced purchase of a private product or pay a fine to IRS.

2. limited doctor/hospital networks.

3. extra taxes created Obamacare and New Taxes: Destroying Jobs and the Economy (some may have been rescinded since article date?)

extra taxes and other parts will cost jobs and add to unemployment.

it's a hoodwink in the stratosphere.



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